S Model Charging - only 20 hour option?
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cwerdna
Well-known member
Nope. Incorrect.whyvon said:
Even the base S model has a 3.x kW on-board charger, if you charge on a level 2 (208/240 volt) EVSE. It would take ~8 hours tops on that.
Or, you could get the "charge package" that adds the CHAdeMO inlet (for DC fast charging) and 6.x kW on-board charger. On a L2 208/240 volt 30+ amp EVSE, charge time on that would go down to about 5 hours tops.
(2013+) SV and SL trim include the 6.x kW OBC. SL also includes the CHAdeMO inlet, while it's an option on the SV.
The typical quoted figure to charge via CHAdeMO DC FC is 0 to 80% in 30 minutes. The rate goes down as the battery gets fuller.
If you're wondering why I'm talking about EVSEs, see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
All Leafs ship with a 120 volt L1 EVSE (aka "trickle" charge cable/cord set). And yes, from dead, it's ~20 hours to fully charge via that.
Since you're asking such a basic question (and have incorrect info), can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.
What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations? Leaf may not be for you and/or you may be better off leasing than buying.
jpadc
Well-known member
Welcome whyvon:
I just want to add to the information that cwerdna gave you here. It was a bit unclear from your post, but it sounds like you are thinking of getting (purchasing or leasing) a new 2015 leaf and you live in the US. The 2015 LEAF S can be charged using either 120 or a 240 volt AC electrical supply source and its the voltage level as well as amperage level available for charging that determines how long it will take the car to recharge. The cord in included with every model of the LEAF (in the bag in the trunk) will only supply 120 volts at 12 amps (standard household current in the US) to the car. At that rate (called L1 charging) the car can take up 20 hours to charge from empty.
But you can purchase and install in your home a devise (called an electric vehicle supply equipment or EVSE) which can be hooked up to a 240 volt circuit that will charge the car in much less time (called a L2 charge), more like between 3-8 hours. The S model without the "Charge Package" option (around a $1300 option) has a 3.x kW on-board charger so even at 240 volts the car can take closer to the 8 hours to charge. If the S model has the charge package you get 2 things with that: 1) is a 6.x kW on-board charger so if you purchase a L2 (240 volt) EVSE you will get charge times more in the 3 to 5 hour time frame, and 2) a quick charge port that can be used at a variety of commercial charge stations the can supply up to 840 volts DC (called a L3 charge) that can drop charging times down to around an hour (although you don't get a full charge, only about 80%). Such L3 stations may not even exist where you live which is part of why knowing that can help the group know how to help you.
I spent several weeks just reading posts here on the forum before considering my purchase of a LEAF. There really is a lot of collected knowledge here that will help you figure out if a LEAF can work in your situation and if so which model has the features you would need. Most people here will tell you that Nissan dealers are not very knowledgable about this car and I think if you spend the next couple of weeks just following the forum, when you go visit a dealer you will quickly figure out that you know way more about the car than they do.
Good luck on your decision and happy reading.
I just want to add to the information that cwerdna gave you here. It was a bit unclear from your post, but it sounds like you are thinking of getting (purchasing or leasing) a new 2015 leaf and you live in the US. The 2015 LEAF S can be charged using either 120 or a 240 volt AC electrical supply source and its the voltage level as well as amperage level available for charging that determines how long it will take the car to recharge. The cord in included with every model of the LEAF (in the bag in the trunk) will only supply 120 volts at 12 amps (standard household current in the US) to the car. At that rate (called L1 charging) the car can take up 20 hours to charge from empty.
But you can purchase and install in your home a devise (called an electric vehicle supply equipment or EVSE) which can be hooked up to a 240 volt circuit that will charge the car in much less time (called a L2 charge), more like between 3-8 hours. The S model without the "Charge Package" option (around a $1300 option) has a 3.x kW on-board charger so even at 240 volts the car can take closer to the 8 hours to charge. If the S model has the charge package you get 2 things with that: 1) is a 6.x kW on-board charger so if you purchase a L2 (240 volt) EVSE you will get charge times more in the 3 to 5 hour time frame, and 2) a quick charge port that can be used at a variety of commercial charge stations the can supply up to 840 volts DC (called a L3 charge) that can drop charging times down to around an hour (although you don't get a full charge, only about 80%). Such L3 stations may not even exist where you live which is part of why knowing that can help the group know how to help you.
I spent several weeks just reading posts here on the forum before considering my purchase of a LEAF. There really is a lot of collected knowledge here that will help you figure out if a LEAF can work in your situation and if so which model has the features you would need. Most people here will tell you that Nissan dealers are not very knowledgable about this car and I think if you spend the next couple of weeks just following the forum, when you go visit a dealer you will quickly figure out that you know way more about the car than they do.
Good luck on your decision and happy reading.
I second what was said above and as an S w/QC owner, will state that if you ar buying the car (as opposed to leasing) I would strongly encourage you to get the charge package. A used leaf in a few years will already be taking a big hit in resale value but for a base model without the ability to charge at 6.6kwh or QC, you may not be able to sell the car at all. The included 6.6kwh charger is really helpful! I can plug in at home with my L2 charge rand add 35-40% in an hour.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Fixed your post.tkdbrusco said:
kW and kWh are very different metrics. It's the same as confusing gallons with horsepower. Think of kW = horsepower, kWh = gallons.
If one charges at 1 kW (or 1000 watts) for 6 hours, 6 kWh came out of the wall. If it's at 6 kW for 1 hour, it's also 6 kWh. If it's 1 watt for 6000 hours, it's also 6 kWh.
One pays for electricity at home in cents per kWh. There are a few utilities w/residential plans where they not only bill per kWh but also have demand charges, but that's rare and complicates calculations. (Demand charges aren't unusual on many commercial plans.)
Leaf has ~21 kWh usable battery but since charging isn't 100% efficient, it takes more than 21 kWh out of the wall to fully charge a dead Leaf. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155305#p155305" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has some figures, but it was before the '13+ Leaf w/optional 6 kW on-board charger.
(BTW, 1 hp = ~0.746 kW. And, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evsbs.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; says 1 gallon of gasoline=33.7 kWh.)
As for not being able to sell the car at all if it's a base S, I disagree. Besides Nissan still selling the base S model, all '11 and '12 Leafs only have a 3.3 kW OBC. And, there are other BEVs and many PHEVs that have 3.x kW OBCs or less (e.g. Spark EV, Smart ForTwo ED, i-Miev (IIRC), Chevy Volt, Ford's Energis, PiP, etc.)
TomT
Well-known member
In the four years and 60,000 miles that I owned my Leaf, I can count on less than two hand's worth of fingers the number of times that 3.3 versus 6.0 Kw (it is 6.0, by the way, not 6.6 - Nissan changed the rating from output to input when they went to the 6.0) charging would have made any difference to me... Now, QC; that is another story entirely!
tkdbrusco said:
cwerdna
Well-known member
For me, the 6 kW OBC ROCKS! I can pick up juice much more quickly while opportunity charging at free L2 public charging. I can start charging @ work way later (when demand has died down) and I don't tie up an L2 EVSE for nearly as long. I also sometimes swing by work to take a shower or get some work done and pick up juice almost 2x as fast.TomT said:
I've started sessions for 3.x kW OBC cars (e.g. Volts and '11 and '12 Leafs) and SMH when I see how much juice they've picked up in a given amount of time on Chargepoint's graphs. (Volts seems to pull only ~3.1 kW from the wall at 208 volts vs. ~3.7 to 3.8 kW for '11 and '12 Leafs vs. 5.7 to 6.0 kW for mine.)
As for CHAdeMO, my stance has changed from useless to marginally useful to useless back to marginally useful again. I've used my CHAdeMO inlet maybe ~14 times (16 attempts) but it wasn't really "required" in almost all those cases. I had some dead time during a drive on a weekend and wanted to take advantage of free juice instead of charging at home. Unfortunately, there are few free CHAdeMO DC FCs left even sorta where I go driving. Right now, there's only 1 and it's in a bad part of town. 3 former free ones I used have gone paid, with 1 of those being in a bad part of town.
In my book, 3.x kW OBC is lame.
TomT
Well-known member
Interesting... I had over 50 on mine... But then, they were in all the places I needed to go, most were free, and 20 minutes at a QC beat hours at a L2 every time! As EV batteries grow bigger, L2 as it is currently power limited in most areas (6.25 Kw input at most due to commercial 208 volts), is only going to become more and more restrictive...
cwerdna said:
cwerdna
Well-known member
Of the 3 no-longer free DC FCs, 1 is at at dealer which means limited hours. That one went to NRG eVgo with their ridiculous pricing (http://www.nrgevgo.com/san-francisco-bay-area/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return falseTomT said:
. No thanks and no, I wouldn't sign up for a plan w/a monthly fee. Two of others went to Blink, which has ridiculous $0.59/kWh pricing. The one of those that's not in a bad area not only has ridiculous pricing, it looks like it's often broken now (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/37780" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
.At those crazy prices, I'm better off charging at home.
I've never used the free DC FC at http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/13491" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but it's nowhere near where I live and I don't go to that area much in my Leaf. It sometimes is broken for weeks at a time, even though it's Nissan research office. The times I've actually been to that facility, I didn't need to charge or it was broken anyway (and I didn't need it).
We've got a fair amount of NRG eVgo "Freedom Stations" w/CHAdeMO popping up in the Bay Area, but as I said, the pricing sucks. Their reliability seems better than Blink but it's still not awesome. I've used those stations 0 times.
TomT
Well-known member
Yep, the only time I did not charge at home was when a required trip exceeded my available range (which was more and more often as the battery self-destructed in later years)...
cwerdna said:
cwerdna
Well-known member
Here's another example from today where the 6 kW OBC rocked. I've been home sick from work the last few days. I will probably be returning to work tomorrow. I've been charging mine minimally at home, since there's no reason for me make my bill go up unnecessarily.cwerdna said:
I drove to nearby free L2 charging (30 amp, unknown if 208 or 240 volts) and arrived with ~17% SoC. I plugged in (luckily there was an open plug), walked to the nearby Chipotle, ate and walked back. By the time I got back to my car, it was over 50% SoC... may have been as high as 57%. After an errand and returning home, I had 45% SoC, more than enough to make it to work.
It's weird that the OP has decided to vanish.
