Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

edatoakrun said:

DrInnovation said:

...I monitor my Volt with an OBDII.. and my raw SOC levels (something like gids) has not changed in 14 months..

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SNIP

I don't follow what you are saying.

Do you get a report of the SOC level, and is that of total battery capacity, or only of that fraction of total capacity available to you?

Or, are you getting a report of kWh, either that stored in the total battery capacity, or the amount of kWh which will be made available to you?

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The SAE J1979 standard say the OBDII PID 01 5B should return the current hybrid battery level in terms of absolute capacity of the pack. It is a fixed point value with 0=zero capacity, 255 = full capacity. Lets call the value returned by that PID the value A.

In convert it to raw battery SOC% by taking (100*A/255). Since the full pack is rated at 16kWh, I can get raw kWh by (16.0*A/255).

In watching it I can see the actual range used (86 is the normal max, and at 21 and the ICE is running). (though I've see 87 a few time in the summer). 86-21 is is 65% and consistent what we've heard is "usable" in the Volt.

I have formula for torque for my usable battery wich is (100*A/255-21)*100/65.

DrInnovation said:

The SAE J1979 standard say the OBDII PID 01 5B should return the current hybrid battery level in terms of absolute capacity of the pack.

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The absolute capacity at the time of measurement or some theoretical absolute capacity?

SanDust said:

DrInnovation said:

The SAE J1979 standard say the OBDII PID 01 5B should return the current hybrid battery level in terms of absolute capacity of the pack.

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The absolute capacity at the time of measurement or some theoretical absolute capacity?

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It is supposed to report current level compared to the absolute capacity when the car was produced. (I don't have access to the standard, so this was second had information from a student that attended SAE meetings, otherwise I'd quote the actual text). A video on it (well just the first min as a teaser) is athttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zOBYSlVb6M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is there so ANY mechanic can check the battery status, not just dealer mechanics. A lot of he SAE standards, and the whole point of OBDII standards, is to support more uniform access and testing. This includes stuff like reading cat converter temp, O2 sensors, fuel usage, etc. There are many "standard" OBDII PIDs and this is just one of them.

In a hybrid, the battery impacts fuel efficiency and emissions, so its also part of the EPA/CARB mandated subset of OBDII so that emission verification services can ensure the car is up to specification. For HEV and PHEV, using hybrid SOC is part of the standard testing proceedures.. http://www.arb.ca.gov/board/books/2009/012209/09-1-8pres.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In another thread I was told

Ingineer said:

The Leaf is not OBDII compliant (it does not have to be, as it has no combustion engine), and thus it does not respond to the OBDII Pids. All the diagnostic information is Proprietary to the Leaf. In addition, even though the Leaf has a DLC3 connector just like other OBDII compliant cars, it is a non-standard pinout.

An off-the-shelf OBDII interface will not work properly with the Leaf.

-Phil

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But from the issues with the leaf I think its pretty clear we can/should be pushing the regulating bodies and standards bodies to say all EVs should have to report absolute capacity so end-users or independent mechanics can test/verify.

DrInnovation said:

...I monitor my Volt with an OBDII.. and my raw SOC levels (something like gids) has not changed in 14 months..

Click to expand...

SanDust said:

DrInnovation said:

The SAE J1979 standard say the OBDII PID 01 5B should return the current hybrid battery level in terms of absolute capacity of the pack.

Click to expand...

The absolute capacity at the time of measurement or some theoretical absolute capacity?

Click to expand...

My quick google found this in few places.
http://wiki.verkata.com/en/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

01 5B 1 Hybrid battery pack remaining life 0 100 % A*100/255

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Same info but in better format:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DrInnovation said:

It is supposed to report current level compared to the absolute capacity when the car was produced.

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That's good evidence that you in fact haven't seen any battery loss in the first year+. Too bad the Leaf doesn't have the same reporting. It would make things simpler.

Some cool numbers I thought today via: http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


.

scottf200 said:

Some cool numbers I thought today via: http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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i would have thought the ratio to be much better than that. to be honest with ya, its 50 million gas miles is all i seem to be able to get out of this.

very very disappointing

DaveinOlyWA said:

scottf200 said:

Some cool numbers I thought today via: http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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i would have thought the ratio to be much better than that. to be honest with ya, its 50 million gas miles is all i seem to be able to get out of this. very very disappointing

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Clearly you see what you want to see. Very disappointing. I see 81,000,000 miles of PURE ELECTRIC vehicle driving <grin> that is not using gas.

Of course a LEAF+ICE car household is the same [for any {statistically?} normal person/family] that leave their home/city/under_bridge_post.

I take my Volt on vacations (43 MPG gas only per prev pictures/post) but drive on electricity on my up to 45 mile work days.

scottf200 said:

Of course a LEAF+ICE car household is the same.

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No it's not. I haven't driven on gasoline at all this year because I needed to.

In fact I wouldn't have had to run on gasoline PERIOD this year, except that I finished rebuilding the engine in my MG during spring and I needed to do some shakedown driving on it. So don't lump me in with your fabricated statistic.

scottf200 said:

Of course a LEAF+ICE car household is the same [for any {statistically?} normal person/family].

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Nope. Gonna bust your chops again. Person, maybe. Family with only a Volt, maybe. Family with more than one vehicle - nope. Gasoline use is going to be proportionally higher unless mom in family with Volt gets use of the Volt for a disproportional amount time than mom in family with LEAF plus ICE gets use of the LEAF.

scottf200 said:

Of course a LEAF+ICE car household is the same [for any {statistically?} normal person/family] that leave their home/city/under_bridge_post.

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So that would be a family limited to fewer than 5 people when traveling out of town then? Still seems less statistically normal than I think you'd like to me.

mwalsh said:

scottf200 said:

Of course a LEAF+ICE car household is the same [for any {statistically?} normal person/family] that leave their home/city/under_bridge_post.

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So that would be a family limited to fewer than 5 people when traveling out of town then? Still seems less statistically normal than I think you'd like to me.

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i know a fellow Oly resident who got a Volt and has not replaced any of the gas that came with the car when he bought it almost a year ago. he also has mini van his wife drives and her commute is less than 5 miles but they have 3 kids so he only pretty much drives it back and forth to work. he lives outside Yelm and works downtown Oly so his commute is like 25 miles RT but he has lamented several times that he wished he had a larger EV for the family.

Is it environmentally responsible to have 3 kids when we are drowning in a rising tide of CO2 from China?.. buy a Volt and use birth control.

Herm said:

Is it environmentally responsible to have 3 kids when we are drowning in a rising tide of CO2 from China?.. buy a Volt and use birth control.

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Herm, let's keep it on-topic, eh?

To the others - it seems quite pointless to argue using anecdotal evidence.

Herm said:

Is it environmentally responsible to have 3 kids when we are drowning in a rising tide of CO2 from China?.. buy a Volt and use birth control.

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depends on what those kids do with their lives when they grow up.

Herm; i am more than a bit surprised that it was you who had this comment

I found this data from a fleet oriented tracking tool. Looks like the tester was charging a fair number of short charges but did a lot of CS (charge sustaining gas) driving --- i.e. testing.

Data below is a CSV or TXT file. You can import it to your favorite spreadsheet. It is interesting to see the SOC% be as low as 19.7% but typically 22%. It then can raise to 23% as the drive in CS mode. Little buffer for hard acceleration or off ramp or small hill. Proves to some that the Volt doesn't "recharge" the battery like a typical non-plugin hybrid.

I know some of you are spreadsheet jockeys so you'll have some fun. I thought the data was interesting by comparison to normal CD driving.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5lA7Kfp45ULQl9yQ2xJalp6cUU


Related: Recall SOC range is generally thought of as between 22%-87% so 65% used (35% used for other reasons ... one of which is temp management system [TMS] per one battery company owner)

Related2: Refresher showing different ways Volt is driven and my reference to CS for the data above
Battery State Of Charge (SOC) is on vertical axis and stated on left.
1st 1/3 - Blue is Charge Depletion (CD) aka driving the car in battery mode up to 100 mph and 25-50 miles (this summer was typically 45 for me but I hit 50).
2nd 1/3 - Orange is when you are Charge Sustaining (CS) using the gas generator. Goal:Charge at home off grid.
3rd 1/3 - Green is when you are charging at home/work/etc off the grid.

Chart and other background here: http://gm-volt.com/2009/11/23/engineering-design-and-efficiency-of-chevy-volts-generator-mode-builds-on-gms-two-mode-hybrid-technology/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I noticed that since leasing Volt I found myself less worrying (and keeping up with the negative talk that came with Leaf) and just enjoying the experience. Most importantly, it continues to amaze me in terms of estimating range. My recent 40.2 mile trip, 30 miles out of which were at 70 mph with A/C on entire way with 3 people gave me an EV range of 39 miles exactly. I am no efficient driver, so these results are really satisfying for me. I could probably push Leaf to 55 miles under the same conditions, but then I never dared to drive it all the way to LBW. Although I am not regretting buying Leaf initially, I did realize that Volt is just much better transition into EV experience for an average driver like me.

One thing for sure, I do want faster onboard charger for my next EV. While 40 miles range is enough for daily commuting, there are times that it doesn't charge fast enough for my second trip. Hoping for some charging improvements by the time when my lease is up.

IBELEAF said:

I noticed that since leasing Volt I found myself less worrying (and keeping up with the negative talk that came with Leaf) and just enjoying the experience. Most importantly, it continues to amaze me in terms of estimating range. My recent 40.2 mile trip, 30 miles out of which were at 70 mph with A/C on entire way with 3 people gave me an EV range of 39 miles exactly. I am no efficient driver, so these results are really satisfying for me. I could probably push Leaf to 55 miles under the same conditions, but then I never dared to drive it all the way to LBW. Although I am not regretting buying Leaf initially, I did realize that Volt is just much better transition into EV experience for an average driver like me.

One thing for sure, I do want faster onboard charger for my next EV. While 40 miles range is enough for daily commuting, there are times that it doesn't charge fast enough for my second trip. Hoping for some charging improvements by the time when my lease is up.

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this is interesting. what is your normal EV range if you are driving slower (if you ever do) with less people, etc.

if you are getting 39 miles under those conditions, you should be able to get near 50 miles if driving 60 mph with no climate control alone?

I've read that people are getting over 50 miles out of it if driving efficiently, but that's not me. I haven't bothered to attempt that, hence one of the reasons why Leaf didn't work out for me on the first place.

We'll see what winter time brings with heater usage and my driving, but the worst mileage so far I got out of it was 31 miles where I used heat entire commute and had 2 stops long enough for heat system to cool down and warm up. Again, no efficient driving here either, It was about 20 miles of freeway.

mwalsh said:

So don't lump me in with your fabricated statistic.

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A driver with a driving pattern that matched the average would get more EV miles out of a Volt than a Leaf. This follows from the facts that there are more trips over 100 miles than between 40 miles and 75 miles and that the Volt isn't limited by its EV range. Can't remember the numbers exactly but the Leaf would put on a maximum of 35 miles more for 6.6% of the days but the Volt would get 40 more EV miles on 20% of the days. Something like that.

Now if you don't go more than 35 miles from home but consistently go more than 20 miles from home then you'll get a different answer.