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TonyWilliams
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Multiple DC Quick Charges did get a Hot Battery for this guy

Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:17 pm

This is a picture that I stole from a LEAF driver who drove the inaugural Oregon Electric Highway yesterday, in mild March (jacket wearing) weather. After multiple quick charges to 80-90% every 25 miles, this is the result. The number 9 temperature bar is over 52.5C/126F.

Yes Virginia, there is a hot battery in there.


Image


The trip down:

* Leav Corvallis: 2pm
* Arrive Eugene: 3pm, leave 5:20pm - 47.8 miles, 13.1kWh
* Cottage Grove: 6pm, leave 7pm - 25.2 miles, 7.8kWh
* Rice Hill: 7:26pm, leave 7:45pm - 26.7 miles, 9.2kWh
* Roseburg: 8:17pm, leave 8:35pm - 23.9 miles, 7.5kWh
* Canyonville: 9:10pm, leave 9:34 - 25.6 miles, 8.7kWh
* Wolf Creek: 10:05pm, leave 10:26pm - 23.0 miles, 8.7kWh
* Grants Pass: 10:51pm, leave 11:28pm - 18.2 miles, 5.8kWh
* Ashland: 12:24am - 45.0 miles, 14.5kWh

Total: 75kWh

The trip back:

* Leave Ashland: 8:32am
* Ashland: 9:10am, leave 10:08am - 30 miles, 8.6kWh
* Central Point: 10:30am?, leave 12:30pm? - 18.4 miles, 4.3kWh
* Grants Pass: 12:49pm, leave 3:42pm - 25.4 miles, 6.4kWh (10.7 total from Ashland, vs 14.5 to go the other way)
* Wolf Creek: 4:03pm, leave 5:06pm - 18.4 miles, 6.0kWh (vs 5.8kWh)
* Canyonville: 5:32pm, leave 5:49pm - 23.2 miles, 6.5kWh (vs 8.7kWh)
* Roseburg: 6:16pm, leave 6:42pm - 25.3 miles, 7.1kWh (vs 8.7kWh)
* Rice Hill: 7:09pm, leave 7:29pm - 23.2 miles, 7.1kWh (vs 7.5kWh)
* Cottage Grove: 8:01pm, leave 8:57pm - 26.3 miles, 7.2kWh (vs 9.2kWh)
* Corvallis: 10:16pm - 64.4 miles, 14.3kWh (vs total of 20.9kWh and 73 miles)

Total: 67.5kWh
Grand total: 142.5kWh

http://media.batie.org/wceh/
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.

eHelmholtz
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 10:28 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011

Re: Multiple DC Quick Charges equals Hot Battery

Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:24 pm

hmm, worrisome.

essaunders
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Delivery Date: 20 Jan 2012
Location: southern NH

Re: Multiple DC Quick Charges equals Hot Battery

Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:25 pm

I wonder how that will show up in the battery report? I suspect that is exactly the behavior that Nissan was referring to when they said to avoid frequent quick charging....

GRA
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Re: Multiple DC Quick Charges equals Hot Battery

Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:26 pm

eHelmholtz wrote:hmm, worrisome.

I guess we'll find out whether a TMS is needed a lot sooner now.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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TonyWilliams
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Location: San Diego
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Re: Multiple DC Quick Charges equals Hot Battery

Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:27 pm

I'd love to see the data that Nissan allegedly accumulated from the Arizona desert. There is NO WAY that a car on the hottest day in Phoenix will be able to quick charge very much, if at all.

edatoakrun
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Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Multiple DC Quick Charges equals Hot Battery

Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:36 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:....After multiple quick charges to 80-90% every 25 miles, this is the result. The number eight temperature bar is over 50C/122F....

Image


How many charges, over how many miles, in how much time?

Did the driver happen to notice how long it took battery temp to return to ambient, 4 or 5 bars,
after completing the trip?
no condition is permanent

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surfingslovak
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Re: Multiple DC Quick Charges equals Hot Battery

Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:53 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:....After multiple quick charges to 80-90% every 25 miles, this is the result. The number eight temperature bar is over 50C/122F....
How many charges, over how many miles, in how much time?

Fair albeit argumentative questions. It will be tough to find out all the relevant information without access to QC, and proper instrumentation. I can assure you however that some of this information could have been gleaned from LEAF tour and motorshow photos. Generally, you would see cars with 7 and 8 temp bars there. Highly unusual, considering our collective experience last year. Nissan presumably uses QC liberally at these events. Also, Nissan's statement that it's OK to QC if the battery temp gauge is not in the red zone, would imply that heat development is a key factor. There are a few people with direct QC experience out there, and perhaps they can chime in.

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TonyWilliams
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Location: San Diego
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Re: Multiple DC Quick Charges equals Hot Battery

Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:04 pm

This is the guy:

http://alan.batie.org/

Perhaps we could get a synopsis from him.

Desertstraw
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:23 am

Re: Multiple DC Quick Charges equals Hot Battery

Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:06 pm

What is the problem? It is not in the red zone. You cannot extrapolate that it would be if the outside temperature were higher. When I studied engineering we were taught never to extrapolate.

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abasile
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Re: Multiple DC Quick Charges equals Hot Battery

Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:20 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:After multiple quick charges to 80-90% every 25 miles, this is the result.

While I can see making a point of charging at each station for an inaugural run, I don't understand why he would have charged to 80-90% every 25 miles. Undoubtedly there is more battery warming when repeatedly quick charging at higher SOCs. My guess is that his battery would have been happier if he had stopped each charge at, say, 50-60% if he only intended to drive 25 miles to the next charger.

These Dutch guys drove 780 miles in 24 hours by repeatedly quick charging, and apparently did not have battery temperature issues. But they were driving more miles between charges, and starting each charge at a lower SOC.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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