Eight Tips to Extend Battery Life of Your Electric Car

http://www.plugincars.com/eight-tips-extend-battery-life-your-electric-car-107938.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you do any of these things?

What important battery lifespan tips are missing?

patrick0101 said:

Do you do any of these things?

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Wait, that's your article on plugincars.com! Great job, thank you for putting it all together. Wish Nissan and GM were a bit more specific about battery care and its relevance. I was quite intrigued by the comments Tom Moloughney left on your article and tried to gather as much information about the MINI-E field trial as I could. Tom makes a strong case for the durability and longevity of LiMnO2 EV batteries. Very refreshing read.

That being said, we often see references to the Nissan owners manual, which says that the battery should rest a while after a drive before starting a charge. I'm not following that recommendation personally, but this question often comes up. Another popular topic is L1 versus L2 charging. Presumably, slower charging would result in less heat and better battery life. I'm not sold on that either BTW. And finally, driving style. This comes up periodically as well and Nissan recommends moderate driving style, which potentially has as much relevance as all the other rules of thumb.

Good stuff! Thanks to both Patrick and Tom.

Yes, I do most of those things. I do put my foot in it
from time-to-time.

patrick0101 said:

http://www.plugincars.com/eight-tips-extend-battery-life-your-electric-car-107938.html
Do you do any of these things?
What important battery lifespan tips are missing?

Click to expand...

Pat, everything sounds good except number 8. It isn't a fact that QCing will degrade the battery pack. According to some members on here, that's FUD (I learned a new def of FUD today :lol: ). What is fact is that Nissan LEAF techs did extensive hot weather testing right here and simulated 8 years/100K miles of use and found that the pak can have up to 6 QCs a day with NO MORE battery pack degradation than L2 charging. I verified this info with the ECOtality tech today (he watched them!) which confirms what Brendan Jones told me in June.

LEAFfan said:

Pat, everything sounds good except number 8. It isn't a fact that QCing will degrade the battery pack. According to some members on here, that's FUD (I learned a new def of FUD today :lol: ). What is fact is that Nissan LEAF techs did extensive hot weather testing right here and simulated 8 years/100K miles of use and found that the pak can have up to 6 QCs a day with NO MORE battery pack degradation than L2 charging. I verified this info with the ECOtality tech today (he watched them!) which confirms what Brendan Jones told me in June.

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LEAFfan, this is great info and very encouraging news. To be fair, I have heard something similar from another source, except that the use case was not as extreme as what you described. However, the owners manual makes several very clear references to detrimental effects of quick charging. This might be unnecessary caution or a translation error. However, unless Nissan makes an official statement or issues a correction to the manual, I would be hesitant to wholeheartedly recommend frequent quick charging. Yes, I realize that you have gone through the disclaimers and the warranty agreement, but I have learned to be prudent. Especially if the car manufacturer declines to provide an adequate battery capacity warranty.

surfingslovak said:

LEAFfan said:

Pat, everything sounds good except number 8. It isn't a fact that QCing will degrade the battery pack. According to some members on here, that's FUD (I learned a new def of FUD today :lol: ). What is fact is that Nissan LEAF techs did extensive hot weather testing right here and simulated 8 years/100K miles of use and found that the pak can have up to 6 QCs a day with NO MORE battery pack degradation than L2 charging. I verified this info with the ECOtality tech today (he watched them!) which confirms what Brendan Jones told me in June.

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LEAFfan, this is great info and very encouraging news. To be fair, I have heard something similar from another source, except that the use case was not as extreme as what you described. However, the owners manual makes several very clear references to detrimental effects of quick charging. This might be unnecessary caution or a translation error. However, unless Nissan makes an official statement or issues a correction to the manual, I would be hesitant to wholeheartedly recommend frequent quick charging. Yes, I realize that you have gone through the disclaimers and the warranty agreement, but I have learned to be prudent. Especially if the car manufacturer declines to provide an adequate battery capacity warranty.

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I'm going to agree with you, but I plan on using 3 or 4 to go to SD, Palm Springs, etc.

LEAFfan said:

I'm going to agree with you, but I plan on using 3 or 4 to go to SD, Palm Springs, etc.

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Here is to an enjoyable and successful trip!

Good article and we need articles like this to help people get used to this technology.

However, I can't agree totally with some of the advice...

It is not yet proven just by how much quick charging reduces battery life. I think we all agree that it does affect battery life but by how much? I have yet to see any evidence to suggest any figures that aren't just guesses or estimates. there have been some trials using a Mitubishi i and also some using a Nissan Leaf that suggest that only quick charging over a 100,000 mile period does not affect battery life at all!

As far as keeping the Leaf SOC between 10 and 2... this should not really be necessary. There is headroom at the top and bottom of the battery that is protected by the battery management system so you cannot over charge and you cannot dangerously over deplete. There is little evidence to support that there is any significant benefit from not charging over 80% or discharging under 20%.

It is a personal decision just how much battery "mollycoddling" you do and if you want to do everything to protect your battery life then you could follow all of that advice and I wouldn't criticize you for it.

But for me I bought the car to drive and enjoy and I do not want to have to think that much about it. I believe that there is a lot of unknowns and the evidence on quick charging and charging to 100% is not strong so I will continue to charge to 100% when I want to and use QC whenever I need to do long trips and I won't even think about it.

The LiFePO4 batteries used in the CODA and BYD cars can be charged to 100% all the time, it wont reduce the life of those batteries.

As evidenced, perhaps, by the fact that Coda does not even provide an 80 percent charging option.

Herm said:

The LiFePO4 batteries used in the CODA and BYD cars can be charged to 100% all the time, it wont reduce the life of those batteries.

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surfingslovak said:

Another popular topic is L1 versus L2 charging. Presumably, slower charging would result in less heat and better battery life. I'm not sold on that either BTW.

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L1 & L2(16A) are far below the level that the batteries can handle. I don't think there is any advantage to L1 for battery lifespan.

surfingslovak said:

And finally, driving style. ... Nissan recommends moderate driving style, which potentially has as much relevance as all the other rules of thumb.

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I was going to include a section on driving style but the article was already too long. It was 15 tips and it was edited down to just 8.

highcountryrider said:

Good stuff! Thanks to both Patrick and Tom.

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Thanks.

highcountryrider said:

Yes, I do most of those things. I do put my foot in it
from time-to-time.

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Ya gotta have a little fun

LEAFfan said:

Pat, everything sounds good except number 8. It isn't a fact that QCing will degrade the battery pack. According to some members on here, that's FUD (I learned a new def of FUD today :lol: ). What is fact is that Nissan LEAF techs did extensive hot weather testing right here and simulated 8 years/100K miles of use and found that the pak can have up to 6 QCs a day with NO MORE battery pack degradation than L2 charging.

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I hope you are correct. Do you have a link to the report? I would love to see it. There were enough cautionary notes from Nissan that I think it is a good idea to minimize DC QC unless you need it. I am not saying *don't* use it. I am just saying think about it.

surfingslovak said it well.

Herm said:

The LiFePO4 batteries used in the CODA and BYD cars can be charged to 100% all the time, it wont reduce the life of those batteries.

Click to expand...

Right, and I should add that according to the MINI-E spec sheet and other sources the field trial utilized cylindrical manganese spinel cells in 18650 format from E-Moli with a ratio of usable to rated capacity similar to the Leaf. The test cars had only couple of fans to blow cabin air over the pack if it got too hot. I think that Tom Moloughney's field trial experience is quite relevant to us, I wouldn't know of any other publicly available source of information that would cover 27 months, 1,200 charging cycles and 65,000 miles for LiMnO2 cells in an automotive application. Yes, this is a sample size of one, and although I reviewed numerous driver blogs and field trial results, I could not find another comparably documented test car. Generally speaking, the results of the field trial were positive, but there were technical problems as well, the MINI-E was not a production car after all.

LEAFfan said:

I'm going to agree with you, but I plan on using 3 or 4 to go to SD, Palm Springs, etc.

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Exactly! I hope you have a great trip. These cars are meant to be used. The best way to keep a blade sharp is to never use it. Then it is not a blade, it is a decoration. If your schedule allows, give your car a little time to cool off before plugging in.

When you get back, I'd like to hear about the trip and how it went.

LEAFfan said:

patrick0101 said:

http://www.plugincars.com/eight-tips-extend-battery-life-your-electric-car-107938.html
Do you do any of these things?
What important battery lifespan tips are missing?

Click to expand...

Pat, everything sounds good except number 8. It isn't a fact that QCing will degrade the battery pack. According to some members on here, that's FUD (I learned a new def of FUD today :lol: ). What is fact is that Nissan LEAF techs did extensive hot weather testing right here and simulated 8 years/100K miles of use and found that the pak can have up to 6 QCs a day with NO MORE battery pack degradation than L2 charging. I verified this info with the ECOtality tech today (he watched them!) which confirms what Brendan Jones told me in June.

Click to expand...

Doing sample tests and extrapolating that data is not the same as combining it with the age and time under the same conditions. Many battery makers did this and posted claims but when this was done over time the results were not even close. I would like to see the specifics of that test and I find it very hard to believe those claims which contradict other claims made by Nissan execs. The key word in this is SIMULATED. I know this makes many people feel good about their purchase and pack life but I'm confident if this were done over that time period the results would be very different. Heat with age is very different then short term testing. It's not FUD but not scientific at all. My guess it that Nissan is really not sure how all this will be but they did build in substantial costs to replace many failed modules but not ones with high or moderate loss of capacity. I'm going to bet that those in moderate to cool climates have significantly different pack experiences over those in AZ.

SnaxMuppet said:

Good article and we need articles like this to help people get used to this technology.

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Thanks.

SnaxMuppet said:

However, I can't agree totally with some of the advice... for me I bought the car to drive and enjoy and I do not want to have to think that much about it. I believe that there is a lot of unknowns and the evidence on quick charging and charging to 100% is not strong so I will continue to charge to 100% when I want to and use QC whenever I need to do long trips and I won't even think about it.

Click to expand...

SnaxMuppet, you make a very good point. I was only trying to discuss methods to optimize, but it comes off as a list of things to avoid.

patrick0101 said:

I was going to include a section on driving style but the article was already too long. It was 15 tips and it was edited down to just 8.

Click to expand...

Sounds like enough for a "part 2!"

I think the suggestions are general guesses that could/might apply to almost any battery usage. Avoid TOO MUCH of anything.

However, IF age alone (no use at all) causes a 3% loss per year, then an extra 1% for lots of QC is ... nothing for the added utility.

But, the numbers appear to be guesses, that might not apply to any particular battery chemistry, construction, configuration, cooling system, charging rates, usage patterns, or storage conditions.

But, all good aspects to consider.
Thanks for the write-up.

patrick0101 said:

SnaxMuppet said:

Good article and we need articles like this to help people get used to this technology.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

SnaxMuppet said:

However, I can't agree totally with some of the advice... for me I bought the car to drive and enjoy and I do not want to have to think that much about it. I believe that there is a lot of unknowns and the evidence on quick charging and charging to 100% is not strong so I will continue to charge to 100% when I want to and use QC whenever I need to do long trips and I won't even think about it.

Click to expand...

SnaxMuppet, you make a very good point. I was only trying to discuss methods to optimize, but it comes off as a list of things to avoid.

Click to expand...

Indeed... and please don't take my comments as disapproval of the article. I think that the article does a good job describing the main considerations. Thanks again