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Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:40 pm
by like2bike
I found this article about a software change which improves the Rapidgate issue: https://insideevs.com/video-nissan-leaf-rapidgate-problem-solved/

And this is the video that describes the latest quick charge rates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebhC0lhF_hE

Any owners out there with the new software who can check the charge rate?

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:33 pm
by SageBrush
With "fixes" like that, who needs enemies ?

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:54 am
by kovadam
I checked my BMS version, and has the same as the guy has in the video (he has 5SH3C, I have 5SH2C, mine is without battery heater, C is for the 3rd revision of the BMS, 5SH means 40kWh battery pack). However I never needed more DCQC than 1 in a day, so I could not test it, however my Leaf tapers down charging rate much earlier, than seen in older cars, before it was above 60%, when it started to taper down, mine starts with it around 50%, so 10% earlier.

I have a Leaf manufactured end of August or latest start of September.

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:23 am
by DaveinOlyWA
kovadam wrote:I checked my BMS version, and has the same as the guy has in the video (he has 5SH3C, I have 5SH2C, mine is without battery heater, C is for the 3rd revision of the BMS, 5SH means 40kWh battery pack). However I never needed more DCQC than 1 in a day, so I could not test it, however my Leaf tapers down charging rate much earlier, than seen in older cars, before it was above 60%, when it started to taper down, mine starts with it around 50%, so 10% earlier.

I have a Leaf manufactured end of August or latest start of September.


In colder weather the knee (or "taper" in your words) happens sooner if batteries are cold during start of charge

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... -leaf.html

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:44 am
by arnis
Björn verified that newer Leafs have different tapering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J92fS73qw8c

With this kind of allowance new Leaf with 60kWh pack will be fine
with refrigerant-air cooling system. It will extract heat at 2-3kW rate.
Though do not expect any faster charging than 70-80kW - fine for a cheap car :)

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:26 am
by DaveinOlyWA
arnis wrote:Björn verified that newer Leafs have different tapering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J92fS73qw8c

With this kind of allowance new Leaf with 60kWh pack will be fine
with refrigerant-air cooling system. It will extract heat at 2-3kW rate.
Though do not expect any faster charging than 70-80kW - fine for a cheap car :)


Well that would not be 100 KW now would it?

I think we can expect probably around 95-96 KW peak which would of course be dependent on SOC but even at low SOC, I would expect something near 90 KW. Expect that to last until maybe 50-60% but wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 40%. Still a significant step up.

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:32 am
by SageBrush
DaveinOlyWA wrote: I would expect something near 90 KW. Expect that to last until maybe 50-60%

What battery charging peak would expect if you started at a SoC of 10% and battery temp of 110F ?

:lol:

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:04 pm
by arnis
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
arnis wrote:Björn verified that newer Leafs have different tapering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J92fS73qw8c

With this kind of allowance new Leaf with 60kWh pack will be fine
with refrigerant-air cooling system. It will extract heat at 2-3kW rate.
Though do not expect any faster charging than 70-80kW - fine for a cheap car :)


Well that would not be 100 KW now would it?

I think we can expect probably around 95-96 KW peak which would of course be dependent on SOC but even at low SOC, I would expect something near 90 KW. Expect that to last until maybe 50-60% but wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 40%. Still a significant step up.


Well my estimations were correct. 70kW it is.
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=27492

Though even with air circulation/cooling in the pack...cells are very heavily packed, so no more than 2kW of heat extraction.
Though larger pack means C-rate would be slower (at 70kW) than before (at 50kW), that includes driving average load at contant highway speed.
Therefore rapidgate will not be totally solved though better than with 40kW Leafs.

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:31 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
arnis wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
arnis wrote:Björn verified that newer Leafs have different tapering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J92fS73qw8c

With this kind of allowance new Leaf with 60kWh pack will be fine
with refrigerant-air cooling system. It will extract heat at 2-3kW rate.
Though do not expect any faster charging than 70-80kW - fine for a cheap car :)


Well that would not be 100 KW now would it?

I think we can expect probably around 95-96 KW peak which would of course be dependent on SOC but even at low SOC, I would expect something near 90 KW. Expect that to last until maybe 50-60% but wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 40%. Still a significant step up.


Well my estimations were correct. 70kW it is.
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=27492

Though even with air circulation/cooling in the pack...cells are very heavily packed, so no more than 2kW of heat extraction.
Though larger pack means C-rate would be slower (at 70kW) than before (at 50kW), that includes driving average load at contant highway speed.
Therefore rapidgate will not be totally solved though better than with 40kW Leafs.


So maybe you can explain the 70 KW charging system with 100 KW peak?

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:01 pm
by arnis
This language use suggests Nissan tries to avoid another rapidgate scandal for overpromising.
All they say is that battery could charge at 100kW, but only in very specific circumstances:
not cold (at least 5 bars), not hot (no more than likely 8 bars), when state of charge is
getting close to peak pack voltage (of around 395V) and cell temperatures have been equalized as
some cell cores are cooled much faster than others. Therefore peak 250A (is what conductors will handle).
And due to no cooling (looking at pack production video, there are no fans, no cooling units)
"peak" can be achieved only once per trip (almost the same story with 40kWh overheat).

In most scenarios users are guaranteed to get 70kW charging rate as MAXIMUM expected charging speed
for normal weather (no more than 25*C) (that means below 390V it will be lower, like 65kW and after 395V has been
reached, rate will drop significantly - normal charging speed tapering due to maximum cell voltage limit).
70kW is likely equilibrium point where charging and driving at medium speed in medium weather will
cool down the pack enough for next 180A peak charge rate (70kW).

Like I said, do not EXPECT any faster charging than 70-80kW. The fact that it can do more in ideal conditions
once
is something nobody should rely on for any longer trip.
30 minutes of charging, 35kW of capacity. That gives 2 hours of driving. Again, 30 minutes of charging, 2 hours of driving.
If Leaf e+ had refrigerant cooling unit, it could be able to charge at slightly higher speed than 70kW, maybe 80kW.
But only slightly, as I was also expecting air passages between cells. No. They are extremely heavily packed. Thermal
equalization will take whole night before next 100kW peak can be accepted.
Therefore... it didn't make sense to push refrigerant system into the pack. It would hardly help. I totally agree with engineers.

Looking at my two year old signature, Leaf e+ still gets "Medium range EV" badge from me.
At that time even 40kWh Leaf was totally unheard of.