LeftieBiker
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Re: Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:08 pm

I read through the lease agreement on my Leaf. The lease documentation states that I can return the car after 12 months. I will have had the Leaf for 12 months next month and I'm seriously considering asking Nissan to take it back.


Given your situation I'd suggest taking it back. You might try asking NMAC to give you a deal on the 60Kkwh "ePlus" Leaf, but I don't have a lot of faith in that working well for you, either.

OrientExpress is very reliable in his defense of Nissan. He has some sort of working relationship with them, so consider him as roughly the equivalent of a "Fanboy."
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cwerdna
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Re: Rapidgate fixed

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:13 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:I think what you are saying is that the cost of increased battery warranty claims, and more folks being pissed that Nissan changed something that would have a detrimental affect on the car outweighs a handful of folks that believe they are entitled to this change.

Interesting theory.

Yeah. That's most of my hypothesis.

It's possible that allowing for increased DC FCing rate might push more batteries into reaching 8 bars before the 8 year/100K capacity warranty expires in the US and that effect might be more widespread in the US than Europe --> increased Nissan warranty costs. That'd be a reason for Nissan to say no in the US.

And, most US '18+ Leafers may be unaware of rapid gate, hence the low complaints. And, again, even those that do know not might not bother spending/wasting their time (prior to this update news) complaining to Nissan only to be told this is "by design" (what what earlier Nissan statements basically said). I would've been in this boat if I had an '18. I suspect Nissan will see a spike in complaints :) as word spreads.

And, those who complained to just dealer might've also gotten a "by design" response that never bubbled its way up to Nissan corporate.

Yeah, you're right about the cost. At minimum, there's dealer tech labor time that would need to be reimbursed by Nissan corporate. There'd be other ancillary costs like writing and localizing the TSB, training EV helpline staff and validating the change (presumably that's all done).



Unaware? Yes. Low complaints? Nooooo

Survey posts on Facebook from last Summer. Tons of complaints but the focus was pushed away from RapidGate by "us"

Every time someone complained of not getting the charge they were expecting they were bombarded by responses about 25 KW chargers or 40 KW chargers, etc without addressing the OP's concern at all. So the OP doesn't get an answer, is overwhelmed by unrelated data and the issue dies.

I responded time and time again that RapidGate is real but by then there was so much noise on the thread that I doubt much of the message got thru.

There's a huge difference between some folks "talking" about it on social media (and running into obstacles/noise to boot) vs. actual complaints that make their way to Nissan North America.

I suspect if I took a poll at work of people w/'18 or '19 Leafs asking something along the lines of "prior to this question, were you aware of "rapidgate" on '18 or '19 Leafs?", I wouldn't be surprised if at least 50% answer no.

Remember, probably most non-EV enthusiasts do not frequent this board or Leaf FB groups nor keep up with EV news. I started viewtopic.php?f=27&t=16446& long ago. viewtopic.php?p=349448#p349448 was an example street encounter I had in 2014 with a guy with an '11 Leaf that didn't know about the capacity bars, didn't know he was down 2 bars and hadn't ever seen Tony's range charts.

You're on some of the same Leaf FB groups as I am. I'm sure you've noticed a lot of same newb questions and issues over and over (e.g. GOM confusion (e.g. I drove 45 miles and a I "used 80 miles" of charge), questions around charging, not knowing that high speeds is an efficiency and range killer, etc. This is for people who actually show up to ask/mention things.

We have enough people who don't know the difference between kW and kWh and thus use the wrong units. I suspect many non-EV enthusiasts don't know what's the max charge rate in kW of the DC FC they're using, that charging slows down as the battery gets fuller, factors that cause DC FCing to be slower, etc.
LeftieBiker wrote: OrientExpress is very reliable in his defense of Nissan. He has some sort of working relationship with them, so consider him as roughly the equivalent of a "Fanboy."

Some folks here have used other words to describe his behavior here and on some Leaf FB groups...

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WetEV
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Re: Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:26 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Given your situation I'd suggest taking it back. You might try asking NMAC to give you a deal on the 60Kkwh "ePlus" Leaf, but I don't have a lot of faith in that working well for you, either.


A passively cooled battery isn't a good design for long trips at high speeds with multiple quick charges. I recommend you not even think about a 60 kWh ePlus regardless of how good the deal is.

I need to add more words to my "So you want an electric car, perhaps a LEAF? Read this first" topic.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=27677
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OrientExpress
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Re: Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:52 am

Your eloquent argument does not change the fact that my 2018 Leaf does a VERY poor job of doing the job I bought if for.


Always do your homework first, and buy the right tool for the job.

You act like my pain, suffering and frustration is irrelevant. Just because there are only a few people willing to be vocal about their pain doesn't mean that there are not many, many Leaf owners suffering in silence.


We are all responsible for our decisions, and the outcomes from those decisions.

Some folks here have used other words to describe his behavior here and on some Leaf FB groups...


Why thank you.
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TexasLeaf
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Re: Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:07 am

OrientExpress wrote:
Your eloquent argument does not change the fact that my 2018 Leaf does a VERY poor job of doing the job I bought if for.


Always do your homework first, and buy the right tool for the job.

You act like my pain, suffering and frustration is irrelevant. Just because there are only a few people willing to be vocal about their pain doesn't mean that there are not many, many Leaf owners suffering in silence.


We are all responsible for our decisions, and the outcomes from those decisions.

Some folks here have used other words to describe his behavior here and on some Leaf FB groups...


Why thank you.


Your arrogant attitude is disgusting. I am on my fifth electric vehicle and I am/was very well versed on the technology. There is no way I could have made a better decision because Nissan was/is not forthcoming with the information and thier basic attitude seems to be just like your’s, buyer beware.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:29 am

OMG!!

Do your homework?? From what?? There was ZERO information about fast charge profiles on the 40 kwh LEAF. We ALL found out about the issue on our own.
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OrientExpress
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Re: Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:21 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:OMG!!

Do your homework?? From what?? There was ZERO information about fast charge profiles on the 40 kwh LEAF. We ALL found out about the issue on our own.


And only you ALL decided that it was an issue.
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TexasLeaf
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Re: Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:04 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
And only you ALL decided that it was an issue.


We decided nothing! We got stuck with a car that does not perform as identified in manufacturers documentation. How would feel if you bought a car that the manufacturer promised would go 120 mph but actually only goes 30 mph, well that’s exactly how we feel when we were promised a charging rate of 45-50 kW but can only achieve a charging rate of 11 kW.
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OrientExpress
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Re: Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:08 pm

TexasLeaf wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:
And only you ALL decided that it was an issue.


We decided nothing! We got stuck with a car that does not perform as identified in manufacturers documentation. How would feel if you bought a car that the manufacturer promised would go 120 mph but actually only goes 30 mph, well that’s exactly how we feel when we were promised a charging rate of 45-50 kW but can only achieve a charging rate of 11 kW.


I probably think that I didn't pay attention and just assumed. Remember your milage may vary? That is fully applicable here.
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TexasLeaf
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Re: Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:18 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
I probably think that I didn't pay attention and just assumed. Remember your milage may vary? That is fully applicable here.


More buyer beware garbage. I’m starting to think that you’re intentionally trying to make people afraid to buy a car from Nissan. You sure are doing a good job of showing people how deceptive they are.
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