Should I buy a 2016 Leaf SV?

* I live in northern Ohio and my commute is 65 miles round trip, ICE Is available for inclement weather driving

* The car will be kept in a heated garage

* If I routinely use level 2 charging to 80% how much battery degradation should I expect over a 10 year period?

* I am also considering a Ford Focus Electric, what do you recommend?

The Leaf should retain enough range for it to be a "keeper." If your part of Ohio is especially Hot in Summer, then the FFE might do better over time as far as retaining capacity goes, unless you also air condition the garage. They haven't upped the range of the Ford, right? if it has a ~90 mile range, vs the Leaf's 107 mile range, the Leaf would appear to be the better choice.

Since you plan to keep it for a while, Leaf seems to be a better choice due to a bigger battery pack.

Do you have a cost comparison between the two from your local dealers?

willbur4 said:

* I live in northern Ohio and my commute is 65 miles round trip

* The car will be kept in a heated garage

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Nice for winter, but might want to charge outside at night when weather is hot. Unless your garage is air conditioned, or well shaded, or otherwise kept cool in the heat of summer.

Do you have reliable workplace charging, even a 120V L1? If not, I'd not recommend the Leaf, even the 30kWh one. You are likely beyond the "no worries" range. Consider not the best case, but the worst case. Your car is old, and the battery is down to about 70% capacity. The day is cold, and you will be using a lot of heat to keep the windows clear and yourself warm. The road is slushy and/or snow packed, the wind is blowing. Oh, and you want to keep some reserve and not arrive with an empty battery. Take the EPA range number and divide by 2.5 to 3 to get to "no worries range".

If no workplace charging, a Chevy Bolt, due out late this year, might be a better choice. Or a Leaf 2, or Ford's rumored new EV, or a Tesla Model 3. Something with about a 60kWh battery.

If you have reliable workplace charging, even at L1, both the FFE and the Leaf are reasonable options.

willbur4 said:

* I am also considering a Ford Focus Electric, what do you recommend?

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Nice, but more range limited. Better on the highway. Smaller inside.

Have you done a cost analysis of buy versus lease? How much are you going to pay for an SV? Will you be disappointed 6 months down the road when 200 mile Bolt is available and 200 mile Leaf is announced? Yes, they will be more expensive.
You can use this for comparison of lease deal: https://plus.google.com/u/1/+DanielCardenas/posts/eQmNyebU7dc

For 65 miles of daily commute, I would say, the 2016 Leaf SV battery should last you 6-7 years/100K-125K miles..(assuming you wouldn't want to charge at work often)

If you are considering buying the car, assuming you would want at least one 2nd life out of that car with a replaced battery, I would try and research what Nissan will price the replacement 30Kwh pack for...

I have been trying to find that out, but it seems Nissan hasn't announced any pricing on the 30Kwh pack yet...

I have been driving a 2016 SV for 6 months now on a 86 miles daily commute, and the battery has been performing amazingly well so far. I have squeezed as high as 104 miles on some days, with 10-15 miles/battery % still left...of course I am in more moderate CA weather, but having lived through 2 seasons with it so far, its battery seems much more weather resilient..the variation in range hasn't been that much.

mihird said:

I have been driving a 2016 SV for 6 months now on a 86 miles daily commute, and the battery has been performing amazingly well so far. I have squeezed as high as 104 miles on some days, with 10-15 miles/battery % still left...of course I am in more moderate CA weather, but having lived through 2 seasons with it so far, its battery seems much more weather resilient..the variation in range hasn't been that much.

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6 months of California is not useful to plan 6 years+ in Ohio. Battery stores less energy when cold, road resistance rises with snow/water, battery ages with time and cycles.

Notice that when your battery is down to 70%, you will not make it home without workplace changing.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but is true.

WetEV said:

mihird said:

I have been driving a 2016 SV for 6 months now on a 86 miles daily commute, and the battery has been performing amazingly well so far. I have squeezed as high as 104 miles on some days, with 10-15 miles/battery % still left...of course I am in more moderate CA weather, but having lived through 2 seasons with it so far, its battery seems much more weather resilient..the variation in range hasn't been that much.

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6 months of California is not useful to plan 6 years+ in Ohio. Battery stores less energy when cold, road resistance rises with snow/water, battery ages with time and cycles.

Notice that when your battery is down to 70%, you will not make it home without workplace changing.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but is true.

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Didn't Nissan go with a new battery/chemistry for the 30kwh Leaf? If so it might not degrade as fast as previous model year Leafs.

AFAWK the 30kwh pack uses the same chemistry as the 2015 "Lizard" pack. If so, it is less heat resistant than implied by Nissan, but is likely to take quite a few years to get to 70% in your climate. Don't be confused by people whose "lizard" packs are degrading quickly in extreme heat.

Note the capacity warranty on the 30 is eight years instead of five. Unless Nissan pulled some shenanigans with the capacity bars, in round numbers an eight year old 30 is guaranteed to be as good as a new 24.

Thanks for your feedback, it is very helpful. After dealer incentives and discounts a new Focus electric is $26,911 vs $28,359 for the Leaf SV ($2799 down & $279/mo lease). I ruled out the Focus after a test drive, the Leaf is a much nicer car (smoother, quieter, better controls and ergonomics. The rapid depreciation of these cars is scary. I will attempt to find a used Leaf SV in this area. Failing that a Leaf2 may be the ticket.

I'll throw this in. I have a 2016 Leaf SV. My commute is 64 miles round trip. I got my car in April when it was still cold here in vermont. The round trip always has miles to spare. Enough actually to make half the trip again. I drive the speed limit or less. 60 mph usually. There is a secondary road I can go slower on if I have used more juice that day. Made the 32 mile trip with 34 miles reading on the GOM and had 8 left when I got home.
If I charge to 100% I have 73% left arriving at work and 43% when I get home. This is 60 mph on the interstate with climate control on.
Wonderful car to drive and with the lack of needed servicing I think it is a great choice. and we keep the CO2 emissions down.

To add I leased mine but plan to buy out at the end. I will definitely go over the lease miles. I will likely keep it several years after that. By then the tech will have advanced and hopefully there will be higher range choices.

If you can charge on both ends, consider a 2011/12 for $6-8k. If you can't, and have other cars, drive the Leaf, but you might need an ICE in winter.

"Lease to own" seems the best way to go with the 2016 SV/SL 30Kwh options....especially considering that Nissan has been offering discounts for buyout at lease end for all these model years..

willbur4 said:

The rapid depreciation of these cars is scary.

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The rapid depreciation from MSRP is driven by the tax credits, and large discounts from list.

Why buy a used if you get new for less, after discounts and tax credits?

willbur4 said:

Thanks for your feedback, it is very helpful. After dealer incentives and discounts a new Focus electric is $26,911 vs $28,359 for the Leaf SV ($2799 down & $279/mo lease). I ruled out the Focus after a test drive, the Leaf is a much nicer car (smoother, quieter, better controls and ergonomics. The rapid depreciation of these cars is scary. I will attempt to find a used Leaf SV in this area. Failing that a Leaf2 may be the ticket.

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You had me until your last couple statements: what makes you think a Leaf2 will depreciate any slower than a Leaf1? I agree that the Leaf is a joy to drive, but that doesn't mean the Leaf2 will be! Do you see my confusion?

Stanton said:

willbur4 said:

Thanks for your feedback, it is very helpful. After dealer incentives and discounts a new Focus electric is $26,911 vs $28,359 for the Leaf SV ($2799 down & $279/mo lease). I ruled out the Focus after a test drive, the Leaf is a much nicer car (smoother, quieter, better controls and ergonomics. The rapid depreciation of these cars is scary. I will attempt to find a used Leaf SV in this area. Failing that a Leaf2 may be the ticket.

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You had me until your last couple statements: what makes you think a Leaf2 will depreciate any slower than a Leaf1? I agree that the Leaf is a joy to drive, but that doesn't mean the Leaf2 will be! Do you see my confusion?

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Longer the range/battery size, slower the depreciation...car remains useful for more no. of years...that is how I would conclude that Leaf2 would depreciate somewhat slower than the Leaf1...

Applies to all EVs - not just the Leaf..

willbur4 said:

<span>Thanks for your feedback, it is very helpful. After dealer incentives and discounts a new Focus Electric is $26,911 vs $28,359 for the Leaf SV ($2799 down & $279/mo lease). I ruled out the Focus after a test drive, the Leaf is a much nicer car (smoother, quieter, better controls and ergonomics. The rapid depreciation of these cars is scary. I will attempt to find a used Leaf SV in this area. Failing that a Leaf2 may be the ticket.</span>

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Interesting to read your thoughts on the Focus. I heard it was zippy, but compromised the cargo area from the conversion to electric.

I don't think the depreciation on these cars is anything out of the norm, once you factor out the state and Federal tax incentives. That is simply the market reaching equilibrium with reality. For example, my brand new 2016 SV with Premium Package works out to about $21K after all the discounts and tax incentives are taken into account. That puts into perspective the prices I was looking at for used LEAFs, which in my market seem to run $11-15K for a 2013+ in excellent condition (plus sales tax!).

What is great: it's a buyer's market for 75-100 mi EVs right now. You can choose to use that to your advantage if you want to drive an EV today, or you can wait and see what the next generation brings to the table. Part of my decision was reminding myself that first-year productions of new models often have some quirks to work out. It will be interesting to see how (and when) the Tesla Model 3 and the Chevy Bolt fare.

The simple reason for the larger depreciation is that EV's cost too much and few want them.

http://spectator.org/but-why-arent-people-buying-electric-cars/