Should I buy a 2016 Leaf SV?

[aarond12]

But it seems used EVs are selling very quickly.

http://insideevs.com/used-plug-electric-cars-sell-quicker-ice/

 

[willbur4]

You had me until your last couple statements: what makes you think a Leaf2 will depreciate any slower than a Leaf1? I agree that the Leaf is a joy to drive, but that doesn't mean the Leaf2 will be! Do you see my confusion?

Hi Stanton... I am making a couple assumptions about the Leaf 2. I assume it will be at least as awesome as the Leaf, and I assume the pack will be liquid-cooled which would eliminate battery degradation making the car more desirable and more valuable.

 

[willbur4]

Interesting to read your thoughts on the Focus. I heard it was zippy, but compromised the cargo area from the conversion to electric

Hi gshepherd. I The FFE is zippy but lacks the refinement and magic carpet ride, fun-to-drive ride quality of the Leaf. The first thing that struck me was the large ICE gear (P, R, D, 1) Selector. The FFE needs a joy stick. On the other hand it is good that Ford made the FFE. They are selling ~ 500/month in the US so are putting a lot of EV's on the road.

 

[jjeff]

Interesting to read your thoughts on the Focus. I heard it was zippy, but compromised the cargo area from the conversion to electric

...The first thing that struck me was the large ICE gear (P, R, D, 1) Selector. The FFE needs a joy stick....

I thought the same thing when I drove a Volt, what a waste of space! I mean who needs a big obtrusive shift lever on a electric(or automatic/CVT) vehicle, it's not like the stick is actually used to move from one gear to another. That and the overly cramped cockpit area that served no use other than to cramp the occupant, not sure if the new Volt is any better but I'd hope so as well as for the new Bolt. Nissan sure got it right, keep the shifter small, all it is a switch anyway.

 

[DanCar]

... Nissan sure got it right, keep the shifter small, all it is a switch anyway.

Prefer designs that use even less space that what Nissan uses. http://www.caricos.com/cars/t/tesla/2016_tesla_model_x/1600x1200/11.html?

 

[Stoaty]

Hi Stanton... I am making a couple assumptions about the Leaf 2. I assume it will be at least as awesome as the Leaf, and I assume the pack will be liquid-cooled which would eliminate battery degradation making the car more desirable and more valuable.

From everything we have heard, the pack probably won't be liquid cooled.

 

[GRA]

Interesting to read your thoughts on the Focus. I heard it was zippy, but compromised the cargo area from the conversion to electric

Hi gshepherd. I The FFE is zippy but lacks the refinement and magic carpet, fun-to-drive ride quality of the Leaf. The first thing that struck me was the large ICE gear (P, R, D, 1) Selector. The FFE needs a joy stick. On the other hand it is good that Ford made the FFE. They are selling ~ 500/month in the US so are putting a lot of EV's on the road.

Actually, Ford's averaging more like 100 FFEs/month in the US, 54 last month.

 

[jjeff]

... Nissan sure got it right, keep the shifter small, all it is a switch anyway.

Prefer designs that use even less space that what Nissan uses. http://www.caricos.com/cars/t/tesla/2016_tesla_model_x/1600x1200/11.html?

:shock: what a LCD screen! Of course coming from my 4"ish S Leaf even the larger SL screen is noticeable, that Tesla screen is crazy! I also agree, very nice clean cockpit area

 

[Flyct]

The simple reason for the larger depreciation is that EV's cost too much and few want them.

I'm not convinced that depreciation of a new Leaf is any different than other cars in the same price range when you factor in dealer discounts, NMAC cash and Federal Tax credits if you qualify for. In states with additional tax credits it's even better.

My 2015 SL With Premium package, had a MSRP of $38,500. There was $5,000 NMAC cash and $6,000 dealer discount which brought it to $27,500. Factoring in the Federal Tax credit of $7,500 it brought it to a $20,000 purchase. Trade in price is currently about $15k-16k so the depreciation is only $4k-$5k. I also have a 2015 Lexus RX450h which had MSRP $56k, paid $51k. It's trade in value today is $38k or $13k depreciation.

Both cars depreciated 25% of net cost over the first year.

I'm not sure how much 2016s are being discounted and/or NMAC cash.

 

[cwerdna]

The simple reason for the larger depreciation is that EV's cost too much and few want them.

I'm not convinced that depreciation of a new Leaf is any different than other cars in the same price range when you factor in dealer discounts, NMAC cash and Federal Tax credits if you qualify for. In states with additional tax credits it's even better.

My 2015 SL With Premium package, had a MSRP of $38,500. There was $5,000 NMAC cash and $6,000 dealer discount which brought it to $27,500. Factoring in the Federal Tax credit of $7,500 it brought it to a $20,000 purchase. Trade in price is currently about $15k-16k so the depreciation is only $4k-$5k. I also have a 2015 Lexus RX450h which had MSRP $56k, paid $51k. It's trade in value today is $38k or $13k depreciation.

I'm more inclined to agree with jkline. Leaf resale value is terrible. It's good for buyers of used ones though.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=432095#p432095 and the 2 links I pointed to has more info.

The '13 Leaf SV w/premium only I bought for $9,325 + tax and license that was ~2 years and 1 month old w/under 24K miles on the clock.

Per Pricing tab of http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit, MSRP on a '13 SV with premium package and floor mats & cargo area mat was $33,040 + $850 destination charge, not including tax.

The '13 SV w/both packages and the above would be $34,760. My used car dealer told me he could get a 2 year old '13 Leaf identically equipped for between $11K and $11.5K + tax and license.

Yes, the Federal tax credit, incentives and state rebates (CVRP for CA) definitely can skew the prices, but even after that, the resale value is still poor.

Per http://www.hybridcars.com/june-2016-dashboard/, the battery electric take rate was only 0.51% that month, so plug-ins combined had a 0.91% take rate. 99.09% of all the other light vehicles sold in the US that month were NOT plug-ins. So yeah, the demand is unfortunately not particularly high, it seems.

 

[cwerdna]

Interesting to read your thoughts on the Focus. I heard it was zippy, but compromised the cargo area from the conversion to electric

Hi gshepherd. I The FFE is zippy but lacks the refinement and magic carpet ride, fun-to-drive ride quality of the Leaf. The first thing that struck me was the large ICE gear (P, R, D, 1) Selector. The FFE needs a joy stick. On the other hand it is good that Ford made the FFE. They are selling ~ 500/month in the US so are putting a lot of EV's on the road.

If by FFE, you mean Ford Focus Electric and selling ~500/month in the US of those, you are off by an order of magnitude.

See http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/. YTD, they've only moved 446 of them, so they're averaging about 74/month, NOT 500/month.