Used 12 bar 2011 LEAF - Raleigh to Tampa - tips?

sklancha · Mar 3, 2015

This is my first time on this forum, and I have to say it has been quite informative and helpful. I just bought a 2011 Leaf SL with only 1,800 miles on it, and plan on driving up to North Carolina this weekend to pick it up. I am renting a car to go up, and my sense of adventure is leaning towards driving the Leaf back home (approximately 700 miles). Baptism by fire, eh?

Unfortunately the dealership is very unfamiliar with the Leaf, which kind of leaves me much less prepared than I hoped for. My primary vehicle is a Tesla, so I am not a complete newbie to the EV world- just not all that familiar with Nissan... or the Leaf. I used information provided in this forum to get some baseline information:

The battery life bar is showing all 12 bars
It has the winter package (heated seats/steering wheel)
It has the high speed (?ChaDeMo) charging ability
We typically use a very limited amount of heat or A/C (prefer using heated seats, and house AC is set to turn on when it gets over 79 degrees)

I am a pretty efficient driver in the Tesla (9 months and almost 29K), with an all time average of 293 wh/mile- which I think calculates to 3.4 m/kw. In my last road trip to Memphis TN (1700 miles round trip) I was very intentional on my efficiency, and managed 245 wh/mile -or 4.08 miles/kwh. I've been able to get 300 miles out of a single charge with rural driving, and (a personal best of) 297 miles (Decatur GA to Lake City FL) of highway driving.

My initial albeit limited information on the Leaf, suggested that I should be able to drive about 100 miles between charges, but now I am not so sure.... the thought of spending that money renting and ICE and hauling the Leaf home is so much less appealing at this time.
How accurate is the car able to estimate the amount of mileage left in the tank?
Is there certain configurations that can be set that maximize efficiency?
How well established is the Chademo infrastructure?
Is it going to be a problem to be high speed charging that often?

For the more adventurous of you-
If YOU were planning a trip from Raleigh North Carolina to Riverview (just south of Tampa) Florida- how would you go about doing it? We have about 4 days to play with.

Angel

Now back to the new Leaf....

desiv · Mar 3, 2015

sklancha said:
My initial albeit limited information on the Leaf, suggested that I should be able to drive about 100 miles between charges, but now I am not so sure.... the thought of spending that money renting and ICE and hauling the Leaf home is so much less appealing at this time.

100 miles per charge on a leaf in good battery condition is "possible," but that's best case. Lower speed in town driving.
Highway driving, probably much closer to 60-70 miles (no heater, right?).
(I can still do 60+ on my 12 bar Leaf highway (55-ish. Some over, some under.. Depending on traffic.)

sklancha said:
How accurate is the car able to estimate the amount of mileage left in the tank?

Not very, if you're talking about the G-O-M (Guess - O - Meter) that tells you how many miles you have left to drive.
Watching the available battery bars is a bit better. Or better yet, get a bluetooth OBD2 adapter and put Leaf Spy on an Android device (iPhone version is in testing).

sklancha said:
Is there certain configurations that can be set that maximize efficiency?

Configs, not really. You can (and probably should) use Econ mode, but other than that. Just drive effeciently. ;-)

sklancha said:
How well established is the Chademo infrastructure?

Depends where you are. http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is your friend. ;-)
(Hey, didn't I read about a Tesla trip planner thing (site? app?) that added support for the Leaf???? Sounds vaguely familiar..)

sklancha said:
Is it going to be a problem to be high speed charging that often?

Some people think so, although as I understand it, the latest (well, they were a bit ago, but latest I know) tests showed negligable effect from DCFC.
That being said, what I would think would be more important to watch is battery temperature when fast charging.

Good luck!

desiv

dgpcolorado · Mar 3, 2015

sklancha said:
My initial albeit limited information on the Leaf, suggested that I should be able to drive about 100 miles between charges, but now I am not so sure.... the thought of spending that money renting and ICE and hauling the Leaf home is so much less appealing at this time.
How accurate is the car able to estimate the amount of mileage left in the tank?
Is there certain configurations that can be set that maximize efficiency?
How well established is the Chademo infrastructure?
Is it going to be a problem to be high speed charging that often?...

Others familiar with your area may have suggestions on routes but as a newcomer to the LEAF a 700 mile trip could be very difficult. As a Tesla driver, I presume that you are familiar with plugshare.com, if not you can check out charging resources there.

Some things to note: 100 miles is wildly optimistic for LEAF range, even when new and under ideal (warm, dry, slow speed) conditions. The EPA range for the 2011 LEAF was 73 miles. And even a low mileage LEAF has likely had significant battery degradation. You say that your car has 12 battery capacity bars. Are you sure you are looking at the right ones? Battery capacity bars are the narrow bars to the right of the twelve fuel bars. If you do, indeed, have all twelve capacity bars then the battery likely has about 85% or more of original capacity.

For trip planning you ought to take a look at Tony Williams' Range Charts; you might want to use the one for 85% battery capacity.

How accurate is the car able to estimate the amount of mileage left in the tank?

Extremely poor. We call it the "Guess-o-meter" (GOM) here. The GOM bases its estimate on recent driving efficiency but it doesn't know what speed you are going to be going, what wind and other weather you will face, and so forth. Do NOT rely on it. Instead you will need to keep an eye on your fuel gauge and understand that "Low Battery Warning" and "Very Low Battery Warning" still mean that you have some range left. Again, see the range charts linked to above. A better solution would be some sort of energy meter, such as "LEAF Spy", or something similar. But that's hard to acquire and implement in four days.

Is there certain configurations that can be set that maximize efficiency?

In general, you can get the best range by using standard hypermiling techniques: accelerate gently, coast where you can do so safely, anticipate slowing or stops, brake gently. Keep speeds as low as possible to reduce drag. It is much easier to drive efficiently in "Eco" because of the energy mapping of the accelerator pedal. Eco also reduces the hit that the climate control takes when heating (but not in the defrost setting). Keeping the CC off and using the seat and steering wheel heaters will increase range in cold weather. By contrast, the LEAF AC is very efficient so using it in hot weather doesn't affect range much. But in the 2011 LEAF there is no simple way to turn off the heater unless the CC is off. And the heater is a BIG power drain! A way to warm the car while plugged-in is to preheat it using the CC timer or Carwings.

How well established is the Chademo infrastructure?

In most parts of the country the answer is "not very". Even if you do find some Chademo stations on your route you may find that they are in use (and there is rarely more than one at each location), blocked, broken, only available during business hours, or that they charge a high fee. Chademo stations are in no way comparable to Tesla Supercharger stations. Always have a "plan B" when planning to use a Chademo station.

Is it going to be a problem to be high speed charging that often?

Probably not. In general heat is the killer of LEAF batteries and Quick Charging them a lot does increase heat significantly. But if you only do multiple QCs per day infrequently, and during a cool time of the year, it shouldn't have much impact. You probably don't want to get to seven temperature bars, if you can avoid it, however.

LeftieBiker · Mar 3, 2015

I think that the biggest issue a Tesla driver would have with a Leaf is the huge drop in efficiency when driving faster than 55-60MPH. The Tesla supposedly gets excellent range at 65, but the Leaf definitely does not - you have to keep it at 55-60 unless going downhill. If you want to go 100 miles in even a new Leaf, you have to drive no faster than 45MPH.

sklancha · Mar 3, 2015

You all are such a big help. Disappointing information, but informative nonetheless. With under 2,000 miles on the car, I am fairly confident that the 12 bars on the skinny capacity bar are legit... but that doesn't prevent the rest of the information from deflating my sense of adventure considerably.

I did use Plugshare and Chargepoint to scout out available ChaDeMo's, but I didn't put into consideration that they are usually single ports... at a dealership (and not 8 stalls at a mall). It felt pretty adventurous to take the Tesla on a 4,000 mile trip when I only had it for 4 weeks... this Leaf plan is starting to feel ... unreasonable.

With the low probability of getting 100 miles per charge- and the lower probability that the "GOM" is accurate enough for me to push the limits, I am seriously reconsidering our plans. How much easier is it to predict battery availability with the "get a bluetooth OBD2 adapter and put Leaf Spy on an Android device "? Never heard of it.

UPDATE: We spent the last week planning this trip, and in one short day- after discovering this forum, I just called a moving company to transport my car back to me. The good news- I get to drive up there in my TESLA and it will be cheaper to ship it than it will to rent a car for my one way travel up there and all the extra nights in a hotel. The bad news- we really did want to see what our 'new kid on the block' could do.

We are getting this car for two reasons: 1. I have a 16 year old daughter who just got her learners permit 2. My only other vehicle is my Tesla. I love the idea of her starting with an EV- no worries about gas money when she is poor and in college in a few years. No skipping oil changes... no more practicing in MY baby

angel

desiv · Mar 3, 2015

sklancha said:
How much easier is it to predict battery availability with the "get a bluetooth OBD2 adapter and put Leaf Spy on an Android device "? Never heard of it.

Much easier, in that it gives you a battery percentage.
So you can see how much charge you have left.

As for converting that to miles left, as you know, that depends on driver, roads, weather, and car.
You will get a feel for that over time..

I think you made a good choice, even tho the grand adventures always sound fun.. ;-)

desiv

davewill · Mar 3, 2015

sklancha said:
... How much easier is it to predict battery availability with the "get a bluetooth OBD2 adapter and put Leaf Spy on an Android device "? Never heard of it. ...

Much easier. LEAFSpy not only gives you a percentage, but will calculate a range based on the efficiency you enter, plus letting you set aside a "reserve" amount you feel comfortable with. When I still had my LEAF, for instance, I knew that I could hit at least 3.9 mi/kWh no matter what the conditions, so I set the app to use that number to calculate my range. Worked great. Some people like it so much that they just buy a cheapo Android phone with no service and dedicate it to this use.

DaveEV · Mar 4, 2015

MOD NOTE: Split this topic into it's own thread.

knightmb · Mar 4, 2015

sklancha said:
This is my first time on this forum, and I have to say it has been quite informative and helpful. I just bought a 2011 Leaf SL with only 1,800 miles on it, and plan on driving up to North Carolina this weekend to pick it up. I am renting a car to go up, and my sense of adventure is leaning towards driving the Leaf back home (approximately 700 miles). Baptism by fire, eh?

Unfortunately the dealership is very unfamiliar with the Leaf, which kind of leaves me much less prepared than I hoped for. My primary vehicle is a Tesla, so I am not a complete newbie to the EV world- just not all that familiar with Nissan... or the Leaf. I used information provided in this forum to get some baseline information:

The battery life bar is showing all 12 bars
It has the winter package (heated seats/steering wheel)
It has the high speed (?ChaDeMo) charging ability
We typically use a very limited amount of heat or A/C (prefer using heated seats, and house AC is set to turn on when it gets over 79 degrees)

It's possible since you have the QC port (well, at least it will take a lot less time). i did a 320 mile (one way, then 320 back) trip to visit relatives in another state. It just so happen, the Interstate route had a QC stop every 50 miles or so. Plugshare is your friend for that. 700 miles is possible if you can plan the route and make sure your charging stops actually work (either via Plugshare reviews or call ahead). Plan to spend a whole day for this trip though, probably plan a motel stop along the way unless you really want to make it a non-stop driving trip.

sklancha · Mar 4, 2015

Stopping every 50 miles sounds grueling for a 700 mile trip.
KNIGHTMB- I did check ChargePoint or PlugShare for Quickchage- though I was focusing on any major gaps in coverage, rather than seeing if they were THAT close together.

Now that you all scared the living tar out of me

... we decided we will appease our adventure plans with a few intermediate distance trips after we get the car home. It shouldn't take too long to figure out how far is 'intermediate' in a Leaf

Other than needing to get the car back to Florida and our natural interest in travel, I had one other motive for doing this trip in the Leaf. When I had a gas car, the EPA rating was very accurate. No matter how hard I tried, my gas mileage remained in the 20-22 mpg as per the rating statement. The EPA rating for my other EV is only 89 eMPG, which is about what I was getting initially, but my lifetime average now is 115 eMPG, and I've even done a distance trip with an eMPG of 137! If the EPA rating can be prodded THAT much on the Tesla, I figured it shouldn't be that hard to squeeze more out of the Leaf. It sounds like the biggest challenge (beyond the natural limitations of a 24Kwh battery) is the insecurity of the 'gas guage'.
Which gets me to one more question
DAVEWELL (or someone else who may know)- Where does one go to get a 'bluetooth OBD2 adapter and Leaf Spy'? Is it expensive or hard to use? Is there various similar products that Leaf owners use?

Angel

"bluetooth OBD2 adapter and put Leaf Spy "- <-

knightmb · Mar 4, 2015

sklancha said:
Stopping every 50 miles sounds grueling for a 700 mile trip.
KNIGHTMB- I did check ChargePoint or PlugShare for Quickchage- though I was focusing on any major gaps in coverage, rather than seeing if they were THAT close together.

I didn't stop every 50 miles, but it just happen to be dense enough along I-24 and I-75.

Now that you all scared the living tar out of me ... we decided we will appease our adventure plans with a few intermediate distance trips after we get the car home. It shouldn't take too long to figure out how far is 'intermediate' in a Leaf

Depending on your route, you should be fine if charge stations surround your entire trip. We do like to scare because without a lot of details, better to error on the side of caution

Other than needing to get the car back to Florida and our natural interest in travel, I had one other motive for doing this trip in the Leaf. When I had a gas car, the EPA rating was very accurate. No matter how hard I tried, my gas mileage remained in the 20-22 mpg as per the rating statement. The EPA rating for my other EV is only 89 eMPG, which is about what I was getting initially, but my lifetime average now is 115 eMPG, and I've even done a distance trip with an eMPG of 137! If the EPA rating can be prodded THAT much on the Tesla, I figured it shouldn't be that hard to squeeze more out of the Leaf. It sounds like the biggest challenge (beyond the natural limitations of a 24Kwh battery) is the insecurity of the 'gas guage'.
Which gets me to one more question

I can't remember which year exactly, maybe 2013 models and later, get the battery charge percentage gauge. It is easier to monitor this and get a feel for your mileage per charge. Mine for example is pretty close to 1 mile for every 1% of charge used when not driving faster than 60 mph or up a very long, steep mountain road. The mileage meter is famous here for being slow to adapt to the changing driving conditions, which might be a good or bad thing depending on perspective. When doing my 320 mile out of state trip, I found the mileage meter to be surprisingly accurate for long, continuous drives. But it would also lag between charges if the terrain was very hilly. In one leg of my trip, I drive up the Appalachian Mountains with over 75% charge and all that power used to get up the mountain lowered my remaining mileage down to the low 30s range but when I came back coasting down the other side, I gained nearly another 35 more miles at the bottom to return to 65 miles left for range.

Think of the range meter as more for mental planning than an exact instrument. If your destination is 60 miles away and you've been driving continuously for the last 10 minutes and the range meter says you will be 15 miles short, that would take some caution more than if the range meter said you only had 59 miles left. That is where the range anxiety for a lot of people comes from is taking the range meter to be perfect and somehow it knows the exact terrain and conditions you will be driving ahead against. You might know it is all downhill, flat, wind to the back driving and you'll come up with extra at the end, but the vehicle is very logical on it's distance calculation and can't factor in that extra knowledge.

kolmstead · Mar 4, 2015

A couple of the details bother me. First, I don't think heated seats and steering wheel were available until the 2012 model.

And a 2011 Leaf with only 1800 miles on it has obviously spent most of its life unused. Did it sit at a dealership, charged to 100% most of that time, or was it stored in an air-conditioned garage by an owner who kept it at 50% charge or less.. in which case it may really have12 bars of battery capacity.

Depending on how it was used, the battery management system may not have had a lot of opportunity to update its estimate of battery capacity, so it could be reporting a rather optimistic status.

Do a search on "Leaf Spy" to learn about the OBDII-Android tools for really checking out battery condition. The Leaf's built-in instrumentation is pretty limited.

Just think of your new Leaf as a Tesla with one quarter the battery capacity.... that'll give you a better feel for its capabilities.

-Karl

desiv · Mar 4, 2015

sklancha said:
DAVEWELL (or someone else who may know)- Where does one go to get a 'bluetooth OBD2 adapter and Leaf Spy'?

I got my ODB2 bluetooth adapter from e-bay for under $10.
Leaf Spy Pro is in the Android Play store for about $15.
(There is a "lite" version for testing that's free, and includes a lot of the battery detail.)

There are lots of threads on Leaf Spy and those ODB2 adapters here....
This is the one I bought:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300870978320?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can't guaranty that it will work for you, but it did (and still does) work fine for me..
The Android device I used was my wife's old HTC Rhyme (she upgraded phones a bit ago..).

kolmstead said:
First, I don't think heated seats and steering wheel were available until the 2012 model.

I think it was available as part of the "Winter package" option or something, but it wasn't default..

desiv

dhanson865 · Mar 4, 2015

kolmstead said:
I don't think heated seats and steering wheel were available until the 2012 model.

-Karl

Not all 2011 Leafs have it but if you Google 2011 Leaf cold weather package you'll see it was released part way through the model year and was optional even then.

some links include

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1049523_why-youll-want-a-cold-weather-package-on-your-2011-nissan-leaf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1181" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (cold weather trims, Later in 2011 : Leaf will come in Cold Weather Spec)
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4037" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Cold Weather Nissan Leaf info! ($930 MSRP, can order now))
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15994" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (How Can I tell if I have the cold weather package? Good explanation from cgaydos)
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6763" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Cold Weather Package Features, pics from 2011)

and on and on with mostly threads from 2011

Deleted member 5796 · Mar 4, 2015

sklancha said:
DAVEWELL (or someone else who may know)- Where does one go to get a 'bluetooth OBD2 adapter and Leaf Spy'? Is it expensive or hard to use? Is there various similar products that Leaf owners use?

Check out this thread for a good summary of devices http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13324

sklancha · Mar 4, 2015

kolmstead said:
A couple of the details bother me. First, I don't think heated seats and steering wheel were available until the 2012 model.

Karl- The dealer specifically told me about the heated seats and steering wheel (we don't have much winter issue in Florida, so it prompted a conversation about how much of a perk that really was...). Your comment prompted me to double check on the site advertisement, and it is mentioned in writing two more times (http://www.carfax.com/vehicles/JN1AZ0CP5BT006075-used-2011-nissan-leaf-sl--clinton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false... but like I said when I first started this conversation- I did not get any sense from the dealer that he was a Leaf expert. Is there a way to tell by the pictures of the inside of the vehicle, if it has the winter packet??? I hope that he wasn't lying. Maybe there is a way to verify using the VIN number?

And a 2011 Leaf with only 1800 miles on it has obviously spent most of its life unused. Did it sit at a dealership, charged to 100% most of that time, or was it stored in an air-conditioned garage by an owner who kept it at 50% charge or less.. in which case it may really have12 bars of battery capacity.

You are reminding me why I working with dealerships! This is what I was able to find out with some online investigating (I am novice at that, so due tell if their is an easy way to figure this all out)
Car was built June 30, 2011
Remained the property of the dealership until November 2012.
The put a total of 918 miles on the car during that 17 months
The car was leased (to the car dealers wife, per the sales rep) for 15 (ish) months
She about the same amount of miles on the car (approx 900 miles)
She traded it back to the dealership this February.

I don't know if there is a way to look at a Leafs Charge history. I think I read that the Leaf was set to only charge to the 80% mark and that (?) the owner had to do something to have it charge to max. If that is the case, I would imagine that they would have no reason to max charge it routinely... I would imagine. Same with the owner. If the default is set to charge to the 80% mark, and she wasn't driving it that much- I can't imagine her setting it to stay at max charge. I believe that Leaf changed the default to max charge this past year (to boost the EPA rating)

If the car DOESN"T have the winter package that they advertised... I wonder what else I think I am getting, but am not...

angel

desiv · Mar 4, 2015

sklancha said:
Is there a way to tell by the pictures of the inside of the vehicle, if it has the winter packet??? I hope that he wasn't lying. Maybe there is a way to verify using the VIN number?

If those are the pics of your car, I don't think it has the Winter package..
Just a guess (cuz I have a 2012), but I didn't see the switches to turn those on???

desiv

knightmb · Mar 4, 2015

sklancha said:
Karl- The dealer specifically told me about the heated seats and steering wheel (we don't have much winter issue in Florida, so it prompted a conversation about how much of a perk that really was...). Your comment prompted me to double check on the site advertisement, and it is mentioned in writing two more times (http://www.carfax.com/vehicles/JN1AZ0CP5BT006075-used-2011-nissan-leaf-sl--clinton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false... but like I said when I first started this conversation- I did not get any sense from the dealer that he was a Leaf expert. Is there a way to tell by the pictures of the inside of the vehicle, if it has the winter packet??? I hope that he wasn't lying. Maybe there is a way to verify using the VIN number?

I looked at the pictures and blew up the interior ones, it does not have the heated steering wheel button (just the blank in the space where it goes) but I do see the switches for the heated front seats but upon inspection, those look like blank slots also. It does not have the rear heated seats, that button is also missing from the front passenger side seat. My guess, this has none of the winter package features.

I don't know if there is a way to look at a Leafs Charge history. I think I read that the Leaf was set to only charge to the 80% mark and that (?) the owner had to do something to have it charge to max. If that is the case, I would imagine that they would have no reason to max charge it routinely... I would imagine. Same with the owner. If the default is set to charge to the 80% mark, and she wasn't driving it that much- I can't imagine her setting it to stay at max charge. I believe that Leaf changed the default to max charge this past year (to boost the EPA rating)

If the car DOESN"T have the winter package that they advertised... I wonder what else I think I am getting, but am not...

angel

The 80% setting is a good sign, if it was left at that most of it's life. If it was fully charged in that picture (or close to it) at the 80% setting, then the mileage might be close to what it estimates, so it might be able to do a full +80 miles with full charge no problems. I wonder if it has all the firmware updates for the vehicle as well?

You actually have something rare, a very early Leaf model with the original battery with very little mileage and hopefully the previous owner took good care of it. Many at this forum will want to know how much battery degradation you have as many theories go around to what really hurts the battery the most (age, over-discharge, fully charge sitting, heat, etc). I think heat is the biggest battery killer for any Leaf and your is from NC which isn't too cold or too hot for the weather most of the year. It's kind of a perfect specimen for the battery experts here to examine for capacity, charge, wear/tear, etc.

sklancha · Mar 4, 2015

I wonder if I can push them to either retro add the winter packet that they promised (verbally and on the advertisement), or maybe take off the amount it will cost for me to add it.... I've never dealt with Nissan before, but it seems like if they tell me I bought something with certain features, I should get those features, eh?

desiv said:
You actually have something rare, a very early Leaf model with the original battery with very little mileage and hopefully the previous owner took good care of it. Many at this forum will want to know how much battery degradation you have as many theories go around to what really hurts the battery the most (age, over-discharge, fully charge sitting, heat, etc). I think heat is the biggest battery killer for any Leaf and your is from NC which isn't too cold or too hot for the weather most of the year. It's kind of a perfect specimen for the battery experts here to examine for capacity, charge, wear/tear, etc.

KNIGHTMB- I think you are probably right... again. I really wasn't planning on getting the car when I started this window shopping, but this 'specimen' was hard to pass up. The car looks brand new, and has less miles on it than I put on my Tesla in any given month. We will have the added benefit of keeping it in a flat terrain with extremely mild (if any) winter. It is really a first generation LEAF going through its' first round of real life usage, 4 years after it was made. This can get interesting ...

angel

Reddy · Mar 4, 2015

Wow! Just plain, WOW!

I have 3.5 yrs of Leaf experience in a 2011, including two 800+ mi RT "vacations", multiple 60-80 mi trips into a complete charger desert (even below 25 F), and I'm stunned that you would even consider this. Please look at the Oregon Coast on Plugshare with it's nearly perfect placement of Chademo DCQCs. Even with these, we took nearly a week last summer. Our biggest leg was 85 mi from our house to the first DCQC in Arlington, OR (surrounded by a literal desert and charging desert as well). I had a friend's L2 at 15 mi for a top up, so the outbound was "only" 70 mi, against the wind and over a substantial, 1500 ft hill. I literally crawled up the hill at 15-25 mph on a frontage road. Against a very stiff headwind (without anyone to draft), I kept the speeds "around" 55 mph, at times dropping to 45 mph up hills, all the time keeping a very keen eye on the rear view mirror. We pulled into the DCQC around 5-10 mi AFTER VLBW (which I have previously confirmed was possible easily in town, but never tested against the wind on the freeway). On the return trip, we made the full 85 mi leg, but had a substantial tailwind (perhaps one of the reasons the Columbia Gorge is world renowned for wind surfing), yet STILL arrived 5 mi after VLBW (including experiencing the LBW at least 20 mi from home while still going up the hill: I drove clear across our "metroplex" with a flashing 6 mi or less).

Imagine leaving on a road trip in your Tesla with only 50-60 mi in the tank (highway driving), and no supercharging stations. That's what it's like in the Leaf on a daily basis. To get anywhere close to 80 mi in a 4 yr old Leaf, you'll need to run all the way down to zero (essentially below zero since Nissan hides the actual data so you have to guess and drive with a flashing "---" for 5-20 mi until reaching turtle). Yes, it can be done, but as a first experience, especially with highway driving, you've got to have some tough EV skin.

After looking at plugshare around Raleigh-Tampa, I can only guess at your proposed drive, but here's a few thoughts: 1) Lack of single system DCQC. Aerovironment runs all of the stations that I used in Oregon, so only a single card, 800 number, etc and the service is some of the best around. Once I hit their system, it was a breeze. 2) Dependent on Nissan, Ford, or BMW dealerships who are not always interested in allowing "visitors" to charge, not always open 24/7, expensive, out of the way, etc. 3) Inability to charge on incompatible DCQC systems (Tesla, CCS, BMW dealerships, etc.), 4) large distances between DCQC stations (remember the 2011 can only L2 charge at 3.8 KW which is painfully slow compared to DCQC). 5) Planning charging stops, overnights/hotels, weather conditions, etc. This can be painful, especially in rural America where not everyone understand the benefits of EVs. The most I've done is about 300 mi with multiple charges, but the battery got very hot and it took all day.

Used 12 bar 2011 LEAF - Raleigh to Tampa - tips?

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