Used 12 bar 2011 LEAF - Raleigh to Tampa - tips?

[sklancha]

After looking at plugshare around Raleigh-Tampa, I can only guess at your proposed drive, but here's a few thoughts: 1) Lack of single system DCQC. Aerovironment runs all of the stations that I used in Oregon, so only a single card, 800 number, etc and the service is some of the best around. Once I hit their system, it was a breeze. 2) Dependent on Nissan, Ford, or BMW dealerships who are not always interested in allowing "visitors" to charge, not always open 24/7, expensive, out of the way, etc. 3) Inability to charge on incompatible DCQC systems (Tesla, CCS, BMW dealerships, etc.), 4) large distances between DCQC stations (remember the 2011 can only L2 charge at 3.8 KW which is painfully slow compared to DCQC). 5) Planning charging stops, overnights/hotels, weather conditions, etc. This can be painful, especially in rural America where not everyone understand the benefits of EVs. The most I've done is about 300 mi with multiple charges, but the battery got very hot and it took all day.

REDDY- You ALL are making it abundantly clear that this is probably not a good idea, and (you may have missed the post) I already talked to an auto transportation company that can haul it to me for less than it would cost to go with my original plan.

That being said, you've provided a few other tidbits of very helpful information
1) I did not realize that all Chademo's were not created equal. In my ignorance, I thought "Chademo's " were free and uniformly accessible to those with that kind of plug. It sounds more like J1772's which (depending on company and location) can be access limited and quite expensive (BLINK), require membership (ChargePoint), simple (Clipper Creek)... etc. etc. If Chademo's aren't as predictable as the SuperChargers- that is a MAJOR concern. That makes even intermediate length plans complicated) Can you tell on ChargePoint or Plugshare ahead of time whether or not the ChadeMo is compatible with the Leaf?

2) theyNot open 24H?? Now, I am really feeling the range anxiety, and I haven't even stepped foot in the car yet! Have you ever tried to charge at a dealership that refused you service? (PLEASE tell me 'no').

It sounds like their is no way around significant preplanning of trips in a Leaf. I was told that when I got my Tesla, but we do very little preplanning, if any. A little extra planning if we are traveling out of the Supercharger Range, or going through large rural areas. Nothing like what it sounds like I am in for.






after all that added range anxiety infusion... you said you've done 300 miles a day, using multiple charge stops? I only need to travel about 200 per day -still gonna get the truck to haul it, don't worry

angel

 

[Reddy]

1) I did not realize that all Chademo's were not created equal. In my ignorance, I thought "Chademo's " were free and uniformly accessible to those with that kind of plug. It sounds more like J1772's which (depending on company and location) can be access limited and quite expensive (BLINK), require membership (ChargePoint), simple (Clipper Creek)... etc. etc. If Chademo's aren't as predictable as the SuperChargers- that is a MAJOR concern. That makes even intermediate length plans complicated) Can you tell on ChargePoint or Plugshare ahead of time whether or not the ChadeMo is compatible with the Leaf?

Chademo is a standard, so any Chademo compliant-station should work on the Leaf. However, there are some stations that only put out 20 KW, others up to 48 KW, but they should still work. Every machine will be a little bit different. Aeroviroment puts out a huge unit with connect, but they work. Blinks, well, have been less than stellar and are often "on the blink". I don't believe Clipper Creek makes one. I've used OPConnect (Portland, OR company I think). Nissan-branded units are Shimatsu(sp???) and may be run through the ChargePoint membership system or might be free at a dealership. There are certainly others (Bosch, ABB, Futsujisi(???)) but I'm not very familiar with all of this.

2) theyNot open 24H?? Now, I am really feeling the range anxiety, and I haven't even stepped foot in the car yet! Have you ever tried to charge at a dealership that refused you service? (PLEASE tell me 'no').

Again, location dependent. My dealership doesn't even have Chademo (only L2) and inside the fence, so only during business hours. Many are similar, but I've seen two that don't have a fence, but only a chain (still difficult to access at midnight). I have only been rebuffed at a Ford dealership. I charged at Nissan dealerships in Bellingham, Walla Walla, Pasco, and Yakima (hundreds of miles apart), but many others have reported being turned away even from Nissan dealers since they hadn't purchased from that specific dealer.

It sounds like their is no way around significant preplanning of trips in a Leaf. I was told that when I got my Tesla, but we do very little preplanning, if any. A little extra planning if we are traveling out of the Supercharger Range, or going through large rural areas. Nothing like what it sounds like I am in for.

Yup. However, it's not impossible, just more difficult than a Tesla (what do you expect when there are dealerships involved?). Once you get home with the Leaf and have a few weeks under you belt around the home area, you will find it much easier than I described. Make a few inquires at the local dealerships along your travel route, check on the stations in person and on Plugshare. Before you know it, you'll be ready for a Leaf road trip experience. My 300 mile day was with six perfectly aligned DCQCs. If you can find something similar, go for it, it was pretty easy, but the battery did get very hot.

 

[sklancha]

We are now officially the happy owners of that 2011 Nissan Leaf SL that I drove 700 miles to get. We did have it hauled back (just got it last night), as we took all of your comments serious when planning this venture. Thank you.

I learned some very valuable lessons in my brief time as a Leaf owner, that I'd like to share... though some of these things you already may have warned me about
1. Not all dealership residential 'Leaf experts' are created equal. This poor guy knew even less than me. It took the better part of the day for him to figure out how to get the car to link charging stations to the navigation (as I was not willing to leave until that was doable).
2. There are areas, apparently, in which the Leaf is not privvy to charging station location data. One of those areas happens to be about 55 miles north west of the Clinton NC dealership ... which was 11 miles away from my final destination the day I picked the car up. The car did a great job at informing me that I didn't have enough juice to make it to my final destination. It even was kind enough to ask me if I'd like it to find a place to charge. When it said that it is not able to get that information for that region.... I had my first real 'range anxiety' experience.
3. The guess-o-meter. NOW I get it. I can't make the math make sense no matter how I crunch the numbers. The car was fully charged. GOM read 95 miles. Tank capacity with all 12 bars. Average miles per Kwh for this trip was 4.4 kwh/h.
Um... Shouldn't a 72 mile trip be a breeze?


And not to admit that I would be so foolish as to let my take deplete to the point of having NO bars showing... twice, but if I were so foolish to do such a thing, shouldn't I be able to tell how many Kwh the car can hold by filling it up to 100% at that point? Assuming that it is true that there is a 2%+5% reserve, it seems like a 'fill up' would/should be around 23- 23.5 Kwh; right? I'm not even getting 20 KwH.

Let the learning begin

Angel

 

[dgpcolorado]

^ For a new LEAF "100%" to turtle should be about 22.5 kWh. For a 15% degraded LEAF it would be about 19 kWh (a 2011 showing 12 capacity bars is quite likely near 15% degraded and may lose a bar soon).

You can easily go below no fuel bars (assuming that it isn't an early 2011 or that it had the software update for the fuel bar display). There should be about one and a half hidden fuel bars. Regardless of the fuel bars, when you are getting low on charge your guideposts are "Low Battery Warning" (LBW) and "Very Low Battery Warning" (VLBW).

At LBW you should get a voice warning and the GOM number will start flashing. This happens with about 3.2 kWh remaining. At VLBW you will get another voice warning and the GOM will go to flashing ---. At this point you have about 1.3 kWh remaining.

If you set a trip meter right as you hit LBW, you should be able to get at least half that number of miles below VLBW before turtle, so that makes a good guide. As you can see from those energy numbers, even VLBW has a fair number of miles of range left.

I highly recommend taking the car down to VLBW so that you can see how it behaves at the lower end of the charge range. This will give you confidence when you get down to one or zero fuel bars. If you always leave one or two fuel bars on the car you are leaving a significant portion of your range unused.

As always, when range becomes limiting: slow down! Slower driving gives better miles/kWh down to about 12 mph. And turn off the climate control system, of course.

 

[sklancha]

Thanks for the info, dgpcolorado. I had the local dealer run a (?) diagnostics/evaluation on the battery. He said that there was nothing indicating any detectable degradation, so he was not sure why my 'fill up' only took 20 kWh. Since I filled when the flashing --- happened, that would account for 1.3 kWh in the tank (leaving 1.2 kWh unaccounted for). I wouldn't mind running it down even lower, if I will have enough warning before I lose all power- just to test how much my battery really can hold. Interestingly enough, after my 2 drains to the --- mark, I showed 108 miles estimated range on my GOM.

At LBW you should get a voice warning and the GOM number will start flashing. This happens with about 3.2 kWh remaining. At VLBW you will get another voice warning and the GOM will go to flashing ---. At this point you have about 1.3 kWh remaining. If you set a trip meter right as you hit LBW, you should be able to get at least half that number of miles below VLBW before turtle, so that makes a good guide. As you can see from those energy numbers, even VLBW has a fair number of miles of range left.

I am not sure I am following what you are saying here. If I hit the trip meter at the first low battery warning [LBW]... and then I drive (for example) another 10 miles before I get the next low battery warning [?VLBW]... ?which is the point where the estimated range goes blank and the fuel bars disappear completely... I probably have about 5 miles left before hitting a third "turtle" phase? Is there an indicator (other than I am presuming it is running slow and all ancillary battery suckers are shut down) to let us know that we've hit our last chance to limp in to a charging station? About how long/far can you limp towards a charger in turtle phase?

Angel

 

[TimLee]

I am not sure I am following what you are saying here. If I hit the trip meter at the first low battery warning [LBW]... and then I drive (for example) another 10 miles before I get the next low battery warning [?VLBW]... ?which is the point where the estimated range goes blank and the fuel bars disappear completely... I probably have about 5 miles left before hitting a third "turtle" phase?

Yes.

Is there an indicator (other than I am presuming it is running slow and all ancillary battery suckers are shut down) to let us know that we've hit our last chance to limp in to a charging station?

It lights up a warning turtle on the dash.

About how long/far can you limp towards a charger in turtle phase?

Not far.
I have not done it.
A lot of variation reported.
Some half mile, some mile. Someone may have went mile and a half.
Further if you are going down hill and coasting in Neutral.

Keep in mind that final complete shutdown is based on any of the 96 cell pairs hitting the very low shutdown voltage.
So to go the farthest you must be using extremely low power levels.
But even with people that have done it several times it has been unpredictable and eventually behaved weird and shut down leaving them stranded when they did not expect it.

The LEAF coulomb counting is not very precise. That and imbalanced cell pairs can make Turtle a very, very short drive.

If you plan to challenge VLBW or Turtle, you should first have LEAF Spy Pro.

Amazed you found a 2011 with only 1800 miles and enough capacity to still show above 100 mile DTE when fully charged after a period of moderately slow driving.
Was it in cooler mountains part of NC or was it stored in air conditioned garage :?:

 

[dgpcolorado]

Thanks for the info, dgpcolorado. I had the local dealer run a (?) diagnostics/evaluation on the battery. He said that there was nothing indicating any detectable degradation, so he was not sure why my 'fill up' only took 20 kWh. Since I filled when the flashing --- happened, that would account for 1.3 kWh in the tank (leaving 1.2 kWh unaccounted for). I wouldn't mind running it down even lower, if I will have enough warning before I lose all power- just to test how much my battery really can hold. Interestingly enough, after my 2 drains to the --- mark, I showed 108 miles estimated range on my GOM...

There is no way that a 2011 doesn't have some battery degradation, the dealer probably doesn't know what to look for. We here generally judge degradation by the Amp•hours of battery capacity reported by the car. A new 2011/2012 LEAF is assumed to have started with about 66 Ahr of capacity but there is no way to get this reading without an aftermarket meter, such as LEAF Spy.

Since you have said that you have all twelve battery capacity bars, the degradation should be in the 0-15% range, likely closer to 15%. You may well lose the first capacity bar sometime this summer. Miles have relatively little to do with battery capacity, the main factors for degradation are heat and time, with charge cycles (miles) in third place. So, do not assume that you have 22.5 kWh to play with in a 2011 LEAF.

BTW, if you aren't getting voice LBW and VLBW warnings, you may have voice prompts turned off on the Nav system. You should get the voice warning, an orange warning light on the dash, and the flashing GOM.

 

[sklancha]

Well, it doesnt sound like I need to push to turtle unnecessarily. It might be less dangerous to just invest in this LeafSpy thing you guys keep bringing up (I just cant wrap my head around what it is, exactly). Can the dealer tell me how many amp hours of capacity I have?

The car was in eastern North Carolina, a relatively temperate climate area.The car was at the dealership for most of its existence. It was garaged during the time it was leased- but doubt it would have been air conditioned.

Heat, time and charge cycles. There is no disputing that the time has lapsed. I would imagine a very limited amount of charge cycles considering the mileage, so the big unknown is how much heat effect to expect from the North Carolina climate.

Each charge seems to be increasing my GOM predictions and my actual distance. Doesnt make sense to me, but I am not complaining

 

[GerryAZ]

Since the car has probably been sitting and the battery has not been cycled much, you will likely see some slight capacity increase with a few charge cycles. Do not plan on more than 1/4 mile in turtle mode with the 2011. If you hit turtle, you need to find a safe place to stop unless you are really close to a charging station. Enjoy your car--I wish I could have found a 2011 with very low miles and not much battery degradation to replace mine.

Gerry

 

[NYLEAF]

It might be less dangerous to just invest in this LeafSpy thing you guys keep bringing up (I just cant wrap my head around what it is, exactly).

LeafSpy is an app for your Android smartphone that can provide you with lots of useful information about your car that the car itself doesn't show you. It works by connecting to a Bluetooth dongle that you plug into the diagnostic port under the steering wheel. There is a free version of the app so you can test it out, but the Pro version is only $14 I think? There are various makes and models of the dongles, most can be found for around $20 on Amazon or eBay. Definitely worth the money!