2016 30 kWh Battery data
- Thread starter Turbo3
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Valdemar said:
No, getting the battery replaced under Warranty is the consolation prize! The Holy Grail is actually having the battery at 80% after 100K miles. That gives you a 200,000 mi useful life and a battery that lasts the life of the car.
New question about Leafspy. Lately I've noticing that the SOC numbers and % gids numbers don't match anymore. Used to be that both numbers tracked closely but lately I've noticed that I finish out a day like today with about 70 miles driven and 17.4% GIDs left but 24.7% SOC. I understand that SOC is based on the current capacity of the battery and the GIDs value is based on the original GIDs value I input into Leafspy (363) but I figure that based on SOC I ought to have about 80 GIDs left (based on 325 GIDs at full charge) not the 63 that Leafspy shows. What am I missing? Am I miscalculating somehow or am I misunderstanding what SOC represents? Is my Leaf now hiding some capacity at the bottom? The 17 GID difference represents close to 1.4 KWH capacity. Anybody got an answer?
EVforRobert
Well-known member
328 GIDs at 86.8% SOC
Going to let the battery balance a few hours.
Going to let the battery balance a few hours.
armelwani
Active member
That's fantastic. Can you post your GIDs, AHr, SOH% and Hx% once you've completed the charge and let the cells balance?EVforRobert said:
EVforRobert
Well-known member
363 GIDs at 97.6 SOC
armelwani
Active member
UPDATE: I have heard from the dealership and they want me to bring the car in on Monday and drop it off for the week so they can do some "extended testing" on it. I am not sure what that means, and they didn't give me much info, but at least they're going to do something. They will be giving me a loaner car for the week while they have my Leaf.
In the meantime, here is a screenshot of my LeafSpy readings from today after a full charge:
In the meantime, here is a screenshot of my LeafSpy readings from today after a full charge:
Just of curiosity, I ran the battery down to turtle this afternoon. Turtled at 5 GIDs and 283 VDC. 95.5 miles. 65 mv differential between cells at turtle. Started at 325 GIDS this morning so that works out to about 25 KWH usable capacity or about 90% of what I started with new. SOH is 89%, Hx=83.59%. I'll recharge overnight and see if the SOC realigns with % GIDs.
By the way, the percent charge screen blanks out below 5%, just shows dashes. You still need leafspy to squeeze the battery dry. Judging by the end voltage, this isn't something you want to do if you can help it as It probably stresses the battery pretty well.
By the way, the percent charge screen blanks out below 5%, just shows dashes. You still need leafspy to squeeze the battery dry. Judging by the end voltage, this isn't something you want to do if you can help it as It probably stresses the battery pretty well.
armelwani
Active member
Just dropped my Leaf off at the dealership. I was given a Versa SV sedan as a loaner while they do their testing. Was told it would be about a week. Did a quick LeafSpy reading when I dropped it off:
67.39 AHr
84% SOH
82.33% Hx
1,542 miles
As soon as I hear back from them I will post here.
67.39 AHr
84% SOH
82.33% Hx
1,542 miles
As soon as I hear back from them I will post here.
rcm4453
Well-known member
armelwani said:
I wonder how close you are to losing your first capacity bar. It's probably different then what it is for the 24kwh packs.
armelwani
Active member
I've been wondering the same thing myself. I was really hoping it would drop before I turned it in for the testing, so there would be no question about the state of health on the battery, but now I'm thinking how much of a statement it would be for the bar to drop during their testing. Fingers crossed!
rcm4453
Well-known member
armelwani said:
Did they try dismissing your claim by saying they don't take Leaf Spy readings into consideration? I can see them playing that card!
armelwani
Active member
rcm4453 said:
The dealership has actually been pretty good about that so far, but we'll see what Nissan has to say now that they're involved. When I showed the service manager at the dealership the readings from my car compared to the readings of other cars on their lot he was pretty shocked. Hopefully he'll relay that information to Nissan in such a way that they just choose to replace my battery.
rcm4453
Well-known member
armelwani said:
This could be a chemistry issue with these 30 kwh packs. I mean I'm already down to 92% SOH with only 8k miles clocked. I know your case is insanely worse but let's say you get a new battery and your down to around 92% or 93% SOH 8 months later like the rest of us? I guess it's better then what you have now but still these packs don't look too promising, glad I leased!
rcm4453 said:
I am also down to 90% on my battery (although I have clocked almost 17,000 miles so far). My one year battery check is coming up in Dec. I don't expect the dealer to do anything but note the that the battery passes their test. If ,as I suspect, the battery stays at around 90% all winter and starts to lose again around May, we still have a heat problem. If I continue to lose capacity all winter then we have a real problem with the battery chemistry. In either case, I don't expect the battery to last much more than 3-4 years. I have an early production model so It could be a bad batch of batteries. Time will tell.
armelwani
Active member
Mine is an early production model as well, and I can't help but wonder if there are other early production ones with the same problems that belong to people who don't know about this forum or LeafSpy.johnlocke said:
Nissan must know they had a bad initial run of 30kwh packs. If they're sticking these packs into the base S model now, and they don't have the chemistry figured out despite everything they learned from the pre-lizard packs, they had better be ready for a boat load of warranty exchanges in less than 5 years PLUS a lot of customers that won't ever buy or recommend Nissan again.
I know I'm being ignorant and naive, but part of me still believes Nissan wants to be a leader in the EV market. There's just no way to do that if every time a new pack size comes out they are garbage for the first 2 MY cars, have to get slapped with a class action lawsuit, and THEN they make it right. Haven't they learned anything??
armelwani said:
Right now we have a very small sample size and Nissan only sold about 8000 Leafs last year. This thread is is a obscure spot in the forum so it isn't surprising that we don't hear from a lot of people. Nissan knows that there is/was a battery problem, that's why they changed to LG cells. The Renault Zoe in Europe is getting a 40KWH LG battery for this year which fits into the same space as the old 22KWH and 30KWH battery. That's the source for the rumors about a 40KWH battery for the Leaf. Leaf was scheduled for a 60KWH battery before Ghosen left but who knows if that's still an option. Nissan continues to be very tight lipped about the 2017 Leaf so we don't know if or when the Leaf gets a battery upgrade. It's possible that there is no 2017 model and we'll see a refreshed 2018 next spring with new sheetmetal and a bigger battery. While I'd like to believe that the new battery could be retrofitted into a 2016, I'm not going to hold my breath. Nissan hasn't been interested in doing that for the earlier models and it would not help them sell new models to current owners. Goodwill doesn't figure into their sales model! I am going to look at all the other brands first before I buy a Nissan next time around when it comes to a EV.
Durandal
Well-known member
armelwani said:
I think it is a short term gain thing. If you look at the CVT (transmission) cars that they're selling, a lot of them are having problems with premature failure, yet the design changes being made seem to be very minute and iterative, instead of making substantial design changes to resolve the issues. Our 2014 Nissan Versa just had the CVT replaced under warranty at 45,000 miles, and this is not an uncommon problem. They extended the warranty on CV Transmissions for earlier year models, but it doesn't (yet) include the 2014. I am wondering if a class action lawsuit is what they need to get them to bump it to 10yr/100,000 miles.
http://www.nissanassist.com/faqs.php?menu=3
Lots of warranty claims are evidence of leadership that cares more about short term goals than long term goals. Sell the products cheap, make lots of money, raise the stock price, then go to another company before it crashes and burns. I get the feeling that Nissan is simply kicking the can down the road with the Leaf, Versa, and some of their other design issues.
Valdemar
Well-known member
Given 30kwh packs come with a longer capacity warranty it is highly surprising to read about rapid SOH decline. But hey, we were promised 30% loss after 10 years 6 years ago and we all know how it went, so it wouldn't be the first time Nissan screwed up. These reports however leave one wondering if they actually knew 30kWh packs were this bad and changed the meaning of the capacity bars making them highly non-linear, after all there wasn't any kind of statement from Nissan that put remaining capacity % with a correspondence with capacity bar count, at least we had for the 24 packs. This has long been speculated here, it would be interesting to see at what AHR/SOH value 30kWH packs lose the 1st bar.
Valdemar said:
Doesn't really matter how Nissan designed the capacity bars in the long run. The industry standard is 70% at EOL and Nissan has legal judgements against them where Nissan uses 66% as EOL for the 24KWH battery. If they deviate from that by more than a couple of percentage points and have large scale battery failures, some enterprising lawyers will simply get rich with another class action suite. Add to that the statements by Nissan that the battery should retain 80% at 100,000 miles and Nissan doesn't stand a chance in court. With the 100,000 mile/8 year warranty on the battery Nissan implies the battery should last the life of the car.
Range collapse by 60-70K seems to be a real possibility with the 30KWH battery. That's going to be a major problem in and of itself. Add in a failure to honor warranties and Nissan likely will never be able to compete in the EV market again. The Resale Value for a used Leaf is already in the tank because of the battery issue and it won't improve if Nissan has still more battery problems. Consumers aren't likely to buy a new car that has no resale value. Leasing is problematic also unless Nissan is willing to eat most of the depreciation just to move cars. Witness the buyout offers on current lease returns. Some people are being offered $5000 discounts off the depreciated value just so Nissan doesn't have to take them back and people are still saying no because they can get them for even less at auctions.
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