johnlocke said:DaveinOlyWA said:armelwani said:Looks like you're in a similar boat to me. only 354 miles on the odo and you're already down to 92% SOH. Please keep us posted as you do more charging, especially if you do some QC.
As a side note to the rest of the thread, I heard back from Nissan Support today and they will NOT be sending someone onsite to further investigate my car. No surprises there. I'm just going to make sure I qualify for a new battery within the 8yr/100k warranty and then never have anything to do with Nissan again.
his pack is fine. Do NOT allow yourself to think he has lost 8% of his capacity already. These numbers simply do not work that way! I have several blogs showing how easily these numbers can be manipulated!
Sorry, Dave but it probably does mean he's lost capacity. I just cleared 18,000 miles and I'm down to 322 GIDs, 70.51AH, SOH=89% Hx=84%. I can tell that I've lost some range just from daily driving. The loss isn't huge but it is noticeable. I drive the same route 5 days a week (55.1 mile round trip give or take a mile) and I used to get home with 45-49% battery left. Now the same trip leaves me with 39-43%. The number varies a little depending on A/C and heater usage but turning on climate control is only a 1 or 2 mile range penalty typically. If I'm lucky, battery degradation will slow over the winter but I expect to lose another 30 GIDs next summer. I'll be surprised if the battery lasts 4 years.
When I bought the car I really hoped that the battery was good for 100K and would still have 70-80% capacity but I bought it with the expectation that even with a 33% loss of capacity I could still use it as a daily commuter. That was why I had to wait for the 30KWH battery. The 24KWH battery was known to degrade and the 60K mile warranty didn't work for me with the milage I put on a car.
DaveinOlyWA said:johnlocke said:DaveinOlyWA said:his pack is fine. Do NOT allow yourself to think he has lost 8% of his capacity already. These numbers simply do not work that way! I have several blogs showing how easily these numbers can be manipulated!
Sorry, Dave but it probably does mean he's lost capacity. I just cleared 18,000 miles and I'm down to 322 GIDs, 70.51AH, SOH=89% Hx=84%. I can tell that I've lost some range just from daily driving. The loss isn't huge but it is noticeable. I drive the same route 5 days a week (55.1 mile round trip give or take a mile) and I used to get home with 45-49% battery left. Now the same trip leaves me with 39-43%. The number varies a little depending on A/C and heater usage but turning on climate control is only a 1 or 2 mile range penalty typically. If I'm lucky, battery degradation will slow over the winter but I expect to lose another 30 GIDs next summer. I'll be surprised if the battery lasts 4 years.
When I bought the car I really hoped that the battery was good for 100K and would still have 70-80% capacity but I bought it with the expectation that even with a 33% loss of capacity I could still use it as a daily commuter. That was why I had to wait for the 30KWH battery. The 24KWH battery was known to degrade and the 60K mile warranty didn't work for me with the milage I put on a car.
well, now that "I" have a 30 kwh pack, we shall see. I noticed the likelihood that a bit less percentage wise is available to the 30 kwh pack than the 24 kwh pack which likely means a shorter "float" time at the high end of the spectrum.
when I had the 24 kwh pack, my numbers were near 100% well into my 2nd year and we all know that would be impossible. time degradation would have seen to that. but then I (as have several others) would see a rapid drop to a level where it would stabilize again. guessing more instrumentation issues than anything.
But my new pack which is less than a week old dropped a few points almost immediately so we shall see where it goes. I know that even without fast charging I could boost my 24 kwh numbers by simply cycling it fully over 5+ days. I hope to see the same here so I won't be fast charging (at least not planning to for a least another 4-5 days or so...
johnlocke said:DaveinOlyWA said:johnlocke said:Sorry, Dave but it probably does mean he's lost capacity. I just cleared 18,000 miles and I'm down to 322 GIDs, 70.51AH, SOH=89% Hx=84%. I can tell that I've lost some range just from daily driving. The loss isn't huge but it is noticeable. I drive the same route 5 days a week (55.1 mile round trip give or take a mile) and I used to get home with 45-49% battery left. Now the same trip leaves me with 39-43%. The number varies a little depending on A/C and heater usage but turning on climate control is only a 1 or 2 mile range penalty typically. If I'm lucky, battery degradation will slow over the winter but I expect to lose another 30 GIDs next summer. I'll be surprised if the battery lasts 4 years.
When I bought the car I really hoped that the battery was good for 100K and would still have 70-80% capacity but I bought it with the expectation that even with a 33% loss of capacity I could still use it as a daily commuter. That was why I had to wait for the 30KWH battery. The 24KWH battery was known to degrade and the 60K mile warranty didn't work for me with the milage I put on a car.
well, now that "I" have a 30 kwh pack, we shall see. I noticed the likelihood that a bit less percentage wise is available to the 30 kwh pack than the 24 kwh pack which likely means a shorter "float" time at the high end of the spectrum.
when I had the 24 kwh pack, my numbers were near 100% well into my 2nd year and we all know that would be impossible. time degradation would have seen to that. but then I (as have several others) would see a rapid drop to a level where it would stabilize again. guessing more instrumentation issues than anything.
But my new pack which is less than a week old dropped a few points almost immediately so we shall see where it goes. I know that even without fast charging I could boost my 24 kwh numbers by simply cycling it fully over 5+ days. I hope to see the same here so I won't be fast charging (at least not planning to for a least another 4-5 days or so...
It should be interesting to see how well the battery holds up in in a cooler climate. I notice that the battery is reporting 82AH but only 363 GIDs. Since I've never seen anyone report more than 363 GIDs, I suspect that 363 is a hardwired max value in the BMS. I spent about 3-4 months hovering around 363 before the values started to drop. That coincided with the start of warm weather so I really can't say for sure if the battery was losing capacity but wasn't reporting it or if the rising temps started to cook the battery. Looking back on it I remember that that the AH figures weren't changing either during the first 4 months.
What kind of deal did you get? Buy or Lease?
blimpy said:Ok.. lots of reading here over the years.. and I am still not certain what I should do !
New 2016 SV 30KwH.. ~ 300 miles.
In the operational world.. I know not to let it stand charged over 90%
I know not to let is stand discharged - say less than 20%.
In between... most days we use the car seem to leave with 35 to 65 %.
Should I be aiming for some days when I cycle down to 20 or so ( LBW) or even lower ?
with the aim to obtaining max range capability.. and when it is sub 80%.. should I just leave it
rather than charging some ?
With the L2 clipper creek.. I seem to overshoot in my charge time estimates
and end up at ~ 92% often. then I feel guilty if it sits unused like that.
I'm gathering that this cycling only in the 35-85 % region.. isn't going to break in the battery well
But how low to go I don't know.
For economic and age reasons, we will probably keep the car even when the range goes down to
40 % 40 mi.. because it will still be enough to go shopping in... and we will be too old for another car.
With the big batt and good care..we hope that day is a long way off.
we have multiple hill climbs to get home.. and it takes 15-% of the new batt cap to get home.
but only 3-4 % to get to shopping ( all down hill).
---
Thanks for showing me how to find my battery serial number.. is this in the service menu of leafspy ?
--
Is there a battery over-temp history one can find ?
--
sure wish there was a way to limit charging ( at home) based on % or Ah capacity.. instead of time..!!
blimpy said:Ok.. lots of reading here over the years.. and I am still not certain what I should do !
New 2016 SV 30KwH.. ~ 300 miles.
In the operational world.. I know not to let it stand charged over 90%
I know not to let is stand discharged - say less than 20%.
In between... most days we use the car seem to leave with 35 to 65 %.
Should I be aiming for some days when I cycle down to 20 or so ( LBW) or even lower ?
with the aim to obtaining max range capability.. and when it is sub 80%.. should I just leave it
rather than charging some ?
With the L2 clipper creek.. I seem to overshoot in my charge time estimates
and end up at ~ 92% often. then I feel guilty if it sits unused like that.
I'm gathering that this cycling only in the 35-85 % region.. isn't going to break in the battery well
But how low to go I don't know.
For economic and age reasons, we will probably keep the car even when the range goes down to
40 % 40 mi.. because it will still be enough to go shopping in... and we will be too old for another car.
With the big batt and good care..we hope that day is a long way off.
we have multiple hill climbs to get home.. and it takes 15-% of the new batt cap to get home.
but only 3-4 % to get to shopping ( all down hill).
---
Thanks for showing me how to find my battery serial number.. is this in the service menu of leafspy ?
--
Is there a battery over-temp history one can find ?
--
sure wish there was a way to limit charging ( at home) based on % or Ah capacity.. instead of time..!!
johnlocke said:You do need to charge to charge to 100% occasionally to keep the battery pack balanced. Pack balancing occurs at the end of the charge cycle so you should let it charge full cycle at least once a week. By design the battery pack only charges the individual cells to 4.10 to 4.12 VDC. That's only about 95% of a full charge (4.20 VDC). Discharging below LBW (14% approx) is probably not good for the battery but even then individual cell voltage is around 3.20 VDC. At turtle cell voltage is around 2.85 VDC. In between LBW and 100% the voltage curve is pretty linear which indicates a safe operating range for the battery. 20% to 90% would be a safe bet in my book. Nissan could have limited the battery to a lower max cell voltage if they wanted to but they didn't so charging to 100% is probably safe to do and certainly doesn't void the warranty. Average battery temperature is currently the best indicator for battery life. Moderate to cool climates seem to have the best battery life and hot climates the worst.
sendler2112 said:How is the battery balanced at less than the "100%" value Nissan has chosen where the bleed resistors of the highest cells are engaged?
sendler2112 said:How is the battery balanced at less than the "100%" value Nissan has chosen where the bleed resistors of the highest cells are engaged?
blimpy said:2016 SV mfg date 10/16 purchased 11/3/16 so it didn't sit on the dealers lot long
New car with 65 miles on the OD. I think they transferred from another dealership by driving fast on the freeway.
( at 2.7 M/Kw ! )
3 QC's 18 L1/L2. ( 4 or 5 of them here)
Data taken at an odd point.. sorry.
* part of it after I ran the heater while coaxing leaf spy to work..!
350 miles on OD.
99% SOH
78.5 SOC (83% on dash)
Gids 298
23.1 KwH
*62.29 AH taken at 79.33 %
53.9 F
94.56 Hx
max cell voltage difference 17 mV.
That value could show up just from moving the car around parking lots and demo rides around the block with the heat on.blimpy said:( at 2.7 M/Kw ! )
sendler2112 said:That value could show up just from moving the car around parking lots and demo rides around the block with the heat on.blimpy said:( at 2.7 M/Kw ! )
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