EVforRobert
Well-known member
82.07 AHr
331 GIDs at 87.7% SOC
345 miles
331 GIDs at 87.7% SOC
345 miles
2016 30 kWh Battery data
- Thread starter Turbo3
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Here's data from my SV to add to your data points. Very new to LeafSpy though so if I need to change anything within the app to ensure all data matches that of this thread please let me know.
I did a QC last night on my way home to about 85% and finished charging at home to 100%. LeafSpy shows a total of 20 L1/L2 and 24 QC.
While this is primarily my commuter car, I have taken it on 138 mile one way trips, that slightly exceed its current max range, having to stop at a QC for a 10 min fill. On my last trip back, I started with a 100% full charge and made it from Lewes, DE to Ellicott City, MD 116 miles with the GOM showing 11 miles of range left. I did drive in ECO mode, no major elevation changes, secondary roads most of the way at 55-60 mph.
Summary page shows the following today:
353 GIDs at 98.9%
SOC 102.3%
Range on the lower right box shows 142.3 Miles-> 0.5kWh at 4.6 mi/kWh
ODO=2219
AHr=77.19
SOH=97%
Hx=92.27%
min/avg/max=4.111 4.117 4.127 (16 mV)
I'd post iPhone screenshots but still trying to figure that out
I did a QC last night on my way home to about 85% and finished charging at home to 100%. LeafSpy shows a total of 20 L1/L2 and 24 QC.
While this is primarily my commuter car, I have taken it on 138 mile one way trips, that slightly exceed its current max range, having to stop at a QC for a 10 min fill. On my last trip back, I started with a 100% full charge and made it from Lewes, DE to Ellicott City, MD 116 miles with the GOM showing 11 miles of range left. I did drive in ECO mode, no major elevation changes, secondary roads most of the way at 55-60 mph.
Summary page shows the following today:
353 GIDs at 98.9%
SOC 102.3%
Range on the lower right box shows 142.3 Miles-> 0.5kWh at 4.6 mi/kWh
ODO=2219
AHr=77.19
SOH=97%
Hx=92.27%
min/avg/max=4.111 4.117 4.127 (16 mV)
I'd post iPhone screenshots but still trying to figure that out
armelwani
Active member
So I finally heard back from the dealer. They conducted over a week of testing and have concluded that my brand new 2016 SL is functioning fine. They say there's nothing wrong with the battery because they were able to run it down to 106 miles at Turtle.
I'm pretty annoyed. I paid for a new car and the pack is failing. I have escalated this case with Nissan Support and have requested they send a tech onsite to inspect further. They said it's unlikely to happen because the dealer has conducted the extended test and it's within specifications. I will not get my hopes up that Nissan will send someone onsite, but I guess I just need to drive it and wait for 4 bars to fall. Perhaps if the first bar drops within the next couple thousand miles I might be able to get Nissan to do something. Losing the first bar at 3,000 miles would mean potentially losing all 4 bars by 15,000 miles at the accelerated rate of degradation my pack appears to be in. They would have no choice but to replace the battery at that point.
So frustrating. I really thought that Nissan had got the chemistry, and the customer service, right this time around. This will be the last Nissan I ever own.
I'm pretty annoyed. I paid for a new car and the pack is failing. I have escalated this case with Nissan Support and have requested they send a tech onsite to inspect further. They said it's unlikely to happen because the dealer has conducted the extended test and it's within specifications. I will not get my hopes up that Nissan will send someone onsite, but I guess I just need to drive it and wait for 4 bars to fall. Perhaps if the first bar drops within the next couple thousand miles I might be able to get Nissan to do something. Losing the first bar at 3,000 miles would mean potentially losing all 4 bars by 15,000 miles at the accelerated rate of degradation my pack appears to be in. They would have no choice but to replace the battery at that point.
So frustrating. I really thought that Nissan had got the chemistry, and the customer service, right this time around. This will be the last Nissan I ever own.
Well, up thread you said you negotiated a very good price, plus you knew the car was sitting on the lot for a year, probably at 100% (worst case). So, no, you didn't "pay for a new car". Perhaps you can return it, pay another $10K and get a "newer" 2016 (but I doubt it). Good luck. I'd drive the hell out of it and hope for a new battery in 2020.armelwani said:
skhmc
Member
johnlocke said:
Where did you get that data from? I was under the impression the number was at least double that.
See http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098948_plug-in-electric-car-sales-in-jun-leaf-volt-wane-after-may-surge, which says 9,816 units sold Jan-Jun 2015.
The latest test version of LeafSpy Pro includes a new service function to read out ECU versions and the battery serial number. The battery serial number might provide interesting information if we can get a sampling of numbers from early and new 30kWh Leafs.
If you would like access to this test version just send me an email and I will return a link to get it. Then run it and post your battery serial number and Leaf build information.
If you would like access to this test version just send me an email and I will return a link to get it. Then run it and post your battery serial number and Leaf build information.
I think it would be a good idea if everyone with a 30kWh battery ran the latest test version of LeafSpy Pro and posted their battery serial number, Leaf Date of manufacture from driver's door opening and battery specifications (SOH, Ahr, Hx) from LeafSpy. That might reveal a pattern of good and not so good batches of batteries.
armelwani
Active member
Turbo3 said:
I was able to run the new LeafSpy today on my car. Car manufactured 10/15 per door jam. Here's a screenshot of the ECU readout showing the serial number of my battery pack plus a lot of other information:
One really interesting thing occurred with this new LeafSpy version. Previously all cells had looked fine, but when I launched this version it showed several weak cells:
Is this accurate? Do I really have this many weak cells in my pack? If so, perhaps this gives me more ammunition to go back to the dealer with. Maybe they didn't run a CVLI test? Would love to get your feedback on this new finding.
Thanks, Turbo3, for the new version. Really appreciate all your hard work on the LeafSpy app, we'd be lost without it!
skhmc said:
I don't remember where I got my figures from but the figures you're citing are for the 2015 models. According to insideEVs 10650 2016 leafs were sold through the end of Oct which is the last reported month. My figures are from Aug sales records. Wouldn't surprise me if they sold another 2500 units in two months especially with some of the deals we've seen reported. Some people have gotten as much as $8-10K off the sticker price plus 0% financing. Nissan is clearing their inventory and taking a loss. Given that you can get an Leaf S with the 30KWH battery now and a $7-8K discount plus $7500 federal tax credit, it's possible you could get a new Leaf for $15K plus any state rebate. No wonder they might be selling a few more lately.
No, I don't think you have weak cells something else is going on.armelwani said:One really interesting thing occurred with this new LeafSpy version. Previously all cells had looked fine, but when I launched this version it showed several weak cells:
Is this accurate? Do I really have this many weak cells in my pack? If so, perhaps this gives me more ammunition to go back to the dealer with. Maybe they didn't run a CVLI test? Would love to get your feedback on this new finding.
Thanks, Turbo3, for the new version. Really appreciate all your hard work on the LeafSpy app, we'd be lost without it!
Please take an ELM trace and send it to me so I can see the raw data that is causing the missing voltages. See bottom of the help file for how to take one. Let it run for a couple of minutes. You do not need to drive the Leaf.
Turbo3 said:
I ran this today on my 2016 SV. We have two of them; I'll get the info from the other one soon. They were mfg about 6 months apart.
Date of Mfg: 11/15
AHr: 73.79 (at 40.9% SOC)
SOH: 92 (I've seen this move all over, but it's only been charged a few times)
Hx: 88.91
odo: 354 mi
last 6 of vin: 303893
Battery serial: 230SM115BN002094
armelwani
Active member
rt84vhf said:
Looks like you're in a similar boat to me. only 354 miles on the odo and you're already down to 92% SOH. Please keep us posted as you do more charging, especially if you do some QC.
As a side note to the rest of the thread, I heard back from Nissan Support today and they will NOT be sending someone onsite to further investigate my car. No surprises there. I'm just going to make sure I qualify for a new battery within the 8yr/100k warranty and then never have anything to do with Nissan again.
I think it is pretty well understood that after the battery cycles some, it will actually have more usable capacity than when it is brand new.
Wont swear to it.. but I think one of the old timers here.. has gotten extremely long life out of a first generation battery... using it pretty hard... long freeway runs.. getting down to the bottom of the normal range.. charging at work.. and doing the same going home.
Shallow cycling, probably not going to save anything. Just the opposite.
Normal precautions about heat, letting it stand discharged or highly charged still pertain.
To so extent, it's use it or loose it.
But don't abuse it.
just brought home a new 30KwH car yesterday... so we'll see.
akin to teaching a ferret to walk a tight rope.. :mrgreen:
Wont swear to it.. but I think one of the old timers here.. has gotten extremely long life out of a first generation battery... using it pretty hard... long freeway runs.. getting down to the bottom of the normal range.. charging at work.. and doing the same going home.
Shallow cycling, probably not going to save anything. Just the opposite.
Normal precautions about heat, letting it stand discharged or highly charged still pertain.
To so extent, it's use it or loose it.
But don't abuse it.
just brought home a new 30KwH car yesterday... so we'll see.
akin to teaching a ferret to walk a tight rope.. :mrgreen:
Stoaty
Well-known member
Sorry, this goes against everything we know about Lithium batteries.blimpy said:
armelwani said:
When it arrived, it had just been fully charged and had 50 miles on it. SOH at that point said 100%. I have yet to fully charge it since then. I do almost entirely L1 charging at home, with the occasional public charging at L2.
My wife's car has a rather low SOH when we got it at 400 miles, but it came up recently. I'll pull the data from her shortly. I'm not super concerned about either of them. Not enough data to tell what it'll do long term.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
armelwani said:
his pack is fine. Do NOT allow yourself to think he has lost 8% of his capacity already. These numbers simply do not work that way! I have several blogs showing how easily these numbers can be manipulated!
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
blimpy said:
first off, shallow cycling is the BEST thing for longevity but also the worst for usability so the reality is something in between.
If you have a very good buffer of range at 80% SOC then I would only charge to that level. If you generally park it at night with SOC below 40%, then I would charge to full every night.
What you don't want to do;
fully charge car and let it sit more than a day
park your car with low SOC (use the car battery warnings as a guide) for "any" extended period of time if you can avoid it which means plug it in an hour or two as soon as you get home
leave yourself short.
Lets not make the common mistake of equating mileage with longevity. In many areas of the country the #1 degradation factor is time. Which means, high mileage drivers give the impression that their packs are lasting longer when in reality, their climate has reduced the derogatory effects caused by cycling and heat.
Location, location, location, Like with real estate, the most important factor is your location. To be more specific, your climate. If you're living in Phoenix,your battery won't last nearly as long as someone in Seattle. The Leaf is particularly sensitive to this because it's passively cooled. Hot weather kills batteries, no matter what the type. Really cold weather lowers your range but it's heat that kills batteries. A Leaf with only a few hundred miles on it likely doesn't have enough charging cycles to fully equalize the cells. Wait until you have a couple of thousand miles on it before you worry about battery degradation. It may well be that you have a battery with a problem but it's too soon to tell.
DaveinOlyWA said:
Sorry, Dave but it probably does mean he's lost capacity. I just cleared 18,000 miles and I'm down to 322 GIDs, 70.51AH, SOH=89% Hx=84%. I can tell that I've lost some range just from daily driving. The loss isn't huge but it is noticeable. I drive the same route 5 days a week (55.1 mile round trip give or take a mile) and I used to get home with 45-49% battery left. Now the same trip leaves me with 39-43%. The number varies a little depending on A/C and heater usage but turning on climate control is only a 1 or 2 mile range penalty typically. If I'm lucky, battery degradation will slow over the winter but I expect to lose another 30 GIDs next summer. I'll be surprised if the battery lasts 4 years.
When I bought the car I really hoped that the battery was good for 100K and would still have 70-80% capacity but I bought it with the expectation that even with a 33% loss of capacity I could still use it as a daily commuter. That was why I had to wait for the 30KWH battery. The 24KWH battery was known to degrade and the 60K mile warranty didn't work for me with the milage I put on a car.
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