Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

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Sad that Nissan did not see the wisdom of a prorated warranty for capacity warranty, which just like tires or 12 volt batteries is all that makes any technical sense for either the customer or the supplier.
Guess it is just a precedent they are unwilling to set.
Like they were unwilling to sell replacement batteries ;)

A beginning flood of negative opinion on the LEAF that may take more than a decade to subside.
 
Valdemar said:
Stoaty said:
Leafer77 said:
Lost my Fourth bar around: 1/6/2015.
Approximate Mileage was around: 61,150
Click to expand...
Leafer77 said:
I took my car to the dealership, shortly after I noticed the 4th bar was gone. The dealership refuses to accept any responsibility and Nissan Corporate refuses to honor the warranty, since I brought the car into the dealership after 60,000 miles.
Click to expand...
The flood begins... of those just out of warranty who were screwed by the settlement with Nissan.
Click to expand...

Are they screwed in any way more than they already were when they bought the car w/o any cap. warranty, perhaps not counting the emotional element?
Click to expand...

Early guidance from Nissan was 80% at 5 yrs, 70% at 10 years. If we count any car as 5 yrs if it has 60,000 miles on the basis that Nissan calculated based on 12,000 miles/yr then then there has been just under 60,000 miles of 'screwage' to these customers. To 'just' fall outside of the retro warranty is a big deal to the example given. The extra 1,000 miles has cost the dude over $6,000.

There does need to be a sliding scale to avoid these inequities.

My personal situation is that I'm just over 60,000 miles and stand at 76% SOH. I'm 4% worse than the guidance, so while I'm not happy I'm not pissed off either. Had I missed the warranty by 1,000 miles, I'd be pissed off.
 
TimLee said:
Sad that Nissan did not see the wisdom of a prorated warranty for capacity warranty, which just like tires or 12 volt batteries is all that makes any technical sense for either the customer or the supplier.
Guess it is just a precedent they are unwilling to set.
Like they were unwilling to sell replacement batteries ;)

A beginning flood of negative opinion on the LEAF that may take more than a decade to subside.
Click to expand...
It's even sadder that the attorneys that sued Nissan in the class action didn't think a prorated warranty was important. They had an opportunity to negotiate that as part of the settlement, but didn't. The "class" didn't merely consist of those folks who would lose 4 bars in less than 5 yrs or 60K miles. All of the folks who will lose the 4th bar just after those limits were also part of the "class" and deserved better representation.
 
leafkabob said:
TimLee said:
Sad that Nissan did not see the wisdom of a prorated warranty for capacity warranty, which just like tires or 12 volt batteries is all that makes any technical sense for either the customer or the supplier.
Guess it is just a precedent they are unwilling to set.
Like they were unwilling to sell replacement batteries ;)

A beginning flood of negative opinion on the LEAF that may take more than a decade to subside.
Click to expand...
It's even sadder that the attorneys that sued Nissan in the class action didn't think a prorated warranty was important. They had an opportunity to negotiate that as part of the settlement, but didn't. The "class" didn't merely consist of those folks who would lose 4 bars in less than 5 yrs or 60K miles. All of the folks who will lose the 4th bar just after those limits were also part of the "class" and deserved better representation.
Click to expand...

So we should sue the class action attorneys?

I Like it!! :mrgreen:
 
This week I joined the Leaf main battery warranty replacement club. My thanks to all of you who have been posting on MNL for months about this, providing valuable background knowledge about what to expect.

My capacity dropped to 8 bars in late January at approximately 31,250 miles, after several months of having increasing trouble making my 52 miles round-trip commute. It was getting very frustrating having to take a US highway full of traffic signals instead of taking the Interstate, having to open the windows instead of using the AC, and having to stop at the Nissan dealer sometimes for a brief evening charging session before driving home. (There is virtually no public charging infrastructure in our area.) Nevertheless, seeing only 8 bars was quite a shock because the gauge still showed 9 bars when I had the car inspected and serviced at the dealer just a week before.

My initial reaction was to merely return the car when my lease expired on March 8th and continue looking for an alternative EV to lease for the next 2-3 years. Thanks to a phone call from another local MNL member, however, I instead read this and other MNL threads on the warranty battery replacement. Then I called the dealer and asserted a warranty claim.

First, I was required to take the car in for testing. I had the P3227 update done in July 2013, so I knew that wouldn't be an obstacle. A half-day of tests and telephone calls between the dealer's service manager and Nissan corporate confirmed the situation and my entitlement to a replacement. I also made sure the dealer ordered the necessary bracket pack. It and a replacement main battery assembly arrived at the dealer by the end of the week.

This past Monday, I left my Leaf at the dealer (Wallace Nissan in Stuart, Florida) and was given a loaner to use. Wednesday, I had my car returned to me with a new main battery assembly installed, at no cost to me of course. It was beautiful seeing 12 bars of capacity and over 100 miles estimated range (in ECO mode). I did see the replacement battery before installation and it looked new, although the service manager said he had been unable to get Nissan corporate to confirm that it would be new and not merely "remanufactured." Also, the part number on it is 295B0-3NF9D which - based on what I've read here - seems to confirm it is the new 2015 lizard battery assembly.

My compliments, by the way, to Service Manager Joe Dayton at Wallace for his efforts throughout the process. This was their first replacement, so I didn't begrudge them taking 3 days to be sure they did it right. He was cordial and informative at all times, which helped make the whole experience as painless as possible.

As a result of the battery replacement, coupled with Nissan's unsolicited offer to reduce the end-of-lease buyout amount by $6,000 (resulting in a $10,900 buyout plus the ridiculous $300 "purchase option fee" and state taxes/fees), I have purchased my Leaf rather than turn it in. With the new tires I had installed 8 months ago (Ecopias again, from Costco) and the detailing I had done to prepare for the end-of-lease inspection (which never happened, as it turns out), the car drives and feels almost new again.
 
JupiterLEAF said:
This week I joined the Leaf main battery warranty replacement club. My thanks to all of you who have been posting on MNL for months about this, providing valuable background knowledge about what to expect.

My capacity dropped to 8 bars in late January at approximately 31,250 miles, after several months of having increasing trouble making my 52 miles round-trip commute. It was getting very frustrating having to take a US highway full of traffic signals instead of taking the Interstate, having to open the windows instead of using the AC, and having to stop at the Nissan dealer sometimes for a brief evening charging session before driving home. (There is virtually no public charging infrastructure in our area.) Nevertheless, seeing only 8 bars was quite a shock because the gauge still showed 9 bars when I had the car inspected and serviced at the dealer just a week before.

My initial reaction was to merely return the car when my lease expired on March 8th and continue looking for an alternative EV to lease for the next 2-3 years. Thanks to a phone call from another local MNL member, however, I instead read this and other MNL threads on the warranty battery replacement. Then I called the dealer and asserted a warranty claim.

First, I was required to take the car in for testing. I had the P3227 update done in July 2013, so I knew that wouldn't be an obstacle. A half-day of tests and telephone calls between the dealer's service manager and Nissan corporate confirmed the situation and my entitlement to a replacement. I also made sure the dealer ordered the necessary bracket pack. It and a replacement main battery assembly arrived at the dealer by the end of the week.

This past Monday, I left my Leaf at the dealer (Wallace Nissan in Stuart, Florida) and was given a loaner to use. Wednesday, I had my car returned to me with a new main battery assembly installed, at no cost to me of course. It was beautiful seeing 12 bars of capacity and over 100 miles estimated range (in ECO mode). I did see the replacement battery before installation and it looked new, although the service manager said he had been unable to get Nissan corporate to confirm that it would be new and not merely "remanufactured." Also, the part number on it is 295B0-3NF9D which - based on what I've read here - seems to confirm it is the new 2015 lizard battery assembly.

My compliments, by the way, to Service Manager Joe Dayton at Wallace for his efforts throughout the process. This was their first replacement, so I didn't begrudge them taking 3 days to be sure they did it right. He was cordial and informative at all times, which helped make the whole experience as painless as possible.

As a result of the battery replacement, coupled with Nissan's unsolicited offer to reduce the end-of-lease buyout amount by $6,000 (resulting in a $10,900 buyout plus the ridiculous $300 "purchase option fee" and state taxes/fees), I have purchased my Leaf rather than turn it in. With the new tires I had installed 8 months ago (Ecopias again, from Costco) and the detailing I had done to prepare for the end-of-lease inspection (which never happened, as it turns out), the car drives and feels almost new again.
Click to expand...
That is freakin' fantastic. Good for you! :D Thanks for sharing the news. THAT is the scenario many here would like to see play out.
 
JupiterLEAF said:
My capacity dropped to 8 bars in late January at approximately 31,250 miles, after several months of having increasing trouble making my 52 miles round-trip commute.
Click to expand...

What I find most interesting about this is that you actually have 2,000 to 3,000 less miles on your Leaf than I do, yet I am still at 75% SOH (2 bar loser). Since we live in the same exact area, I think that is due to the fact that your long commute was deeply cycling the battery, whereas most of my miles were shorter distances between recharging. I'm sure that you were having to charge to 100% daily, and arriving home with almost nothing, while I usually charge to 80%, but still have at least 3-4 bars left most days before I recharge. Sometimes I do this twice a day, but it still has less impact than the deeper cycling you were doing. Also, thinking out loud, your more rapid discharge driving 70 mph on Route 95 could also be a factor, heating up the battery even more.
The great news about that for you is that with the newer chemistry and your shorter commute, the new battery should last many, many more years.
 
JPWhite said:
My personal situation is that I'm just over 60,000 miles and stand at 76% SOH. I'm 4% worse than the guidance, so while I'm not happy I'm not pissed off either. Had I missed the warranty by 1,000 miles, I'd be pissed off.
Click to expand...
Well, my Leaf is 3.75 years old and I have 78.3% capacity remaining, have only driven 38,000 miles. Not too pleased.
 
Stoaty said:
JPWhite said:
My personal situation is that I'm just over 60,000 miles and stand at 76% SOH. I'm 4% worse than the guidance, so while I'm not happy I'm not pissed off either. Had I missed the warranty by 1,000 miles, I'd be pissed off.
Click to expand...
Well, my Leaf is 3.75 years old and I have 78.3% capacity remaining, have only driven 38,000 miles. Not too pleased.
Click to expand...
You're tracking close to the model. WHat does the model predict your SOH will be at 60,000 miles? you may make the warranty after all.
 
Ok hope this group can help. my 2011 leaf SL has had 3 bars gone for 20kmiles I now have 54K on the car. My leaf spy data is changing a lot in the last month. The SOC fully charged is now SOC 88.8% the Grids are 63.7 % 179 GIDs the KWH is 13.9 KWH. I use to have 15+ KWH a month ago. The battery shows 40.11 AH....
I have stopped driving the leaf. Is there anyway to know when the bar is going to drop off? is there any way to put the car in mod to update the bars? I hope it will drop off soon. I read that it should drop at 40.25 AHs but it has not. I have been driving it for short drives 5 to 10 miles. I want to keep the miles off the car.
what Nissan dealer knows are cars I have been to 3 and I am not impressed with them. thank you for your input.
 
speedski97 said:
Ok hope this group can help. my 2011 leaf SL has had 3 bars gone for 20kmiles I now have 54K on the car. My leaf spy data is changing a lot in the last month. The SOC fully charged is now SOC 88.8% the Grids are 63.7 % 179 GIDs the KWH is 13.9 KWH. I use to have 15+ KWH a month ago. The battery shows 40.11 AH....
I have stopped driving the leaf. Is there anyway to know when the bar is going to drop off? is there any way to put the car in mod to update the bars? I hope it will drop off soon. I read that it should drop at 40.25 AHs but it has not. I have been driving it for short drives 5 to 10 miles. I want to keep the miles off the car.
what Nissan dealer knows are cars I have been to 3 and I am not impressed with them. thank you for your input.
Click to expand...


Is 40.11AHr a typo? You're supposed to loose bar 9 at around 43.25AHr, not 40.25AHr.

The lowest I can find otherwise is 42.61AHr (user 90240), and on the high side I thought I saw someone with loss at around 43.7AHr, but I can't find the post again right now.
 
Please update your location so other people can make dealer recommendations. No dealer is going to do anything until you lose that 4th bar. Have you had any of the firmware/software updates done recently? Sometimes it takes many months for the bars to read correctly again. Have you tried keeping the battery at 100% charge all the time, to speed up the degradation?
 
the 40.11 amp hours is right, and 13.9 Kwh hours in the battery is right. the amp hours has dropped in the last few weeks of sitting at 100% charge. last month I was around 43.10 amp hours and around 15 Kwh hours in the battery?
 
speedski97 said:
... my 2011 leaf SL has had 3 bars gone for 20kmiles I now have 54K on the car. ...
I have stopped driving the leaf. Is there anyway to know when the bar is going to drop off? is there any way to put the car in mod to update the bars? I hope it will drop off soon. ...
Click to expand...
Experience has shown that capacity bars seem to look at a fairly long average. Probably multiple months.
I don't think there is much that can be done to make it update the capacity bars to your current very low Ahr value.

Capacity loss is pretty slow with temperatures below 60F no matter how much you cycle the battery or leave it sitting at 100% charge.
Even though you are now at a low Ahr, the rate that has been dropping has been very slow in your moderate weather winter months.

Losing the fourth bar may require waiting for warmer weather.
Or leaving the LEAF parked in a warm garage putting no miles usage on the battery using the LEAF heater.
 
TimLee said:
Experience has shown that capacity bars seem to look at a fairly long average. Probably multiple months.
I don't think there is much that can be done to make it update the capacity bars to your current very low Ahr value.
Click to expand...
I'm not convinced the averaging is based on time. Rather I suspect it is based upon the number of charge-discharge cycles. If that is true, then the only way to get the bars to drop sooner is to drive the car.
 
RegGuheert said:
I'm not convinced the averaging is based on time. Rather I suspect it is based upon the number of charge-discharge cycles. If that is true, then the only way to get the bars to drop sooner is to drive the car.
Click to expand...
You might be correct.
But you don't have to drive the car to get charge discharge cycles.
I get quite a few cycles listening to podcasts with the LEAF in the garden with very little driving.
You can get cycles in the garage with the LEAF never moving.
 
JPWhite said:
You're tracking close to the model. What does the model predict your SOH will be at 60,000 miles? you may make the warranty after all.
Click to expand...
I will run out of years (15 months left) before I run out of miles. Model predicts 75% capacity remaining at 4.8 years. I will probably be a little below that (guessing 73-74%) because I was running 0.5% ahead going into 3 year mark and I will probably be 0.5% behind going into 4 year mark. It appears that the capacity loss in the summer is slowing with each year, but not as much as the model predicts. Four bar loss (66.25%) is predicted at 7.5 years and 76,000 miles, so I have a lot of room to perform poorer than the model and still have no chance for the warranty. If I don't hit 4 bar loss until 7.5 years, I will be pretty happy, but I don't think the calendar loss is going to slow that much. My guess is about 6 years.
 

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