Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[dgpcolorado]

If there's a good person to ask, then by all means, ask. It's a very interesting and important question.

But I think there's a very high chance, perhaps 95%, that all we'll get is a no comment/watch this space non-answer. And I think the odds are nearly as high that the answer, once revealed in the far-off times of September 2015, will be "No". Again, all EV makers are wrestling with the fundamental shift in their business and how they perceive and position themselves in the market: Are they a car company or a battery company that happens to sell cars? Tesla has chosen the latter route, but I'm sure that Nissan, GM, et al. will resist that option as long as possible.

It is possible that Nissan hasn't even decided what to do about whether or not to make 30 kWh battery packs available for older LEAFs. Given how long it took for them to come up with a replacement policy for the current 24 kWh packs, it may be some time before they come up with a definitive yes or no answer. If the structure of the pack, or the BMS it requires, is not compatible with older LEAFs we might get a "no" answer sooner. But that remains to be seen.

 

[nerys]

well here is why it makes business sense to me.

I was promised future upgradability. Not something I implied myself but was told their would be upgrade paths in the future as technology improved.

this car cost me $19,000 with tax and financing. (2012 SV 4802 miles 89% Battery) that is more money than my ENTIRE FLEET of cars combined (I Have a lot of cars) including all cars I have ever purchased before. ALL OF THEM. I drive 40,000 to 50,000 miles a year.

I love my leaf. I can live with its limitations if I have too. but if a company makes a 30kw pack which would dramatically improve the usability of my car for me in a simply huge manner and that pack is technically and reasonably compatible with my car and then refuse to offer it for "corporate" reasons.

I won't buy another leaf. I will buy someone elses EV. Not like their won't be plenty of choices in a couple of years.

how is that for a business reason.

 

[desiv]

I was promised future upgradability. Not something I implied myself but was told their would be upgrade paths in the future as technology improved.

There will likely be an upgrade path.. To a shiny new 2016 SL!!!! ;-)

I love my leaf. I can live with its limitations if I have too. but if a company makes a 30kw pack which would dramatically improve the usability of my car for me in a simply huge manner and that pack is technically and reasonably compatible with my car and then refuse to offer it for "corporate" reasons.

And they will probably lose you, but maybe gain others who want the new car..
And that other car company you buy from will probably do something similar, as most of these are in the business to sell cars, not batteries..

But who knows.. ;-)

desiv

 

[nerys]

Brand loyalty is important. Especially when you release something new.

I am hoping they won't destroy that brand loyalty out of petty greed that won't even earn them much if anything.

the others are not "promising" upgrades. nissan did. this is partly WHY I bought the nissan. that promise.

I knew I could suffer a couple years reap the EV rewards in savings and then get a little relief if I Just waited a little.

if they would "buy out" what is left owed on my 2012 when that 2016 SL comes out I would gladly "replace" the car with the 2016. (a replacement is not an upgrade)

somehow I don't think they are going to be willing to do that.

 

[Bazooka]

Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer! And, personally, I doubt you will ever see such an upgrade... It makes virtually no business sense for Nissan to do so.

If there's a good person to ask, then by all means, ask. It's a very interesting and important question.

And that's exactly what I said in the rest of the same post you quoted.

But who knows, maybe this will be one of the rare times when Nissan is forthcoming, and (gasp!) it might even be unexpectedly good news.

 

[TomT]

Who told you this and in what form (dealers do not count)? I've never heard of it...

I was promised future upgradability. Not something I implied myself but was told their would be upgrade paths in the future as technology improved.

 

[TimLee]

The only Nissan statement about upgradeabiity that I saw was the Brian Brockman statement "We are trying to maintain backward compatibility as we develop future technology." which he made when he announced the ill fated battery rental for approximately $100 per month.

But most of the Nissan statements on upgradeability have been to not expect any upgrade path other than a new LEAF.

 

[Sondy132001]

Questions: 1) How does the charger upgrade for a 2012 Leaf affect me if I bought my car used and never received a letter ? and 2) How does the 5 years or 60,000 miles on the battery warranty affect me, again since I bought used ? I suppose I just should go to my local Nissan Dealership and ask all these questions ? But from most of the posts here, seems you guys are way smarter than the dealerships !

S

 

[TomT]

1) How does the charger upgrade for a 2012 Leaf affect me if I bought my car used and never received a letter ?

The dealer should be able to pull up a report on which campaigns are outstanding.

2) How does the 5 years or 60,000 miles on the battery warranty affect me, again since I bought used ?

If the previous owner did not opt out and subject the car to the denial code (again, a dealer can tell you if the exclusion is present), you should be covered by the remainder of the 5yr/60K warranty.
If he did opt out, it is unclear where you stand at this juncture...

 

[Sondy132001]

Thanks for the info Tom, I'll make an appointment !

S

1) How does the charger upgrade for a 2012 Leaf affect me if I bought my car used and never received a letter ?

The dealer should be able to pull up a report on which campaigns are outstanding.

2) How does the 5 years or 60,000 miles on the battery warranty affect me, again since I bought used ?

If the previous owner did not opt out and subject the car to the denial code (again, a dealer can tell you if the exclusion is present), you should be covered by the remainder of the 5yr/60K warranty.
If he did opt out, it is unclear where you stand at this juncture...

 

[nerys]

What charger upgrade for 2012?

 

[mwalsh]

What charger upgrade for 2012?

Probably the software update to make the LEAF's charger compatible with certain GE EVSEs.

 

[davewill]

Questions: 1) How does the charger upgrade for a 2012 Leaf affect me if I bought my car used and never received a letter ? and 2) How does the 5 years or 60,000 miles on the battery warranty affect me, again since I bought used ? I suppose I just should go to my local Nissan Dealership and ask all these questions ? But from most of the posts here, seems you guys are way smarter than the dealerships !

S

Also if you call 1-800-NoGasEV, they should be able to tie your name and address to the VIN so that you'll get future mailings about the car.

 

[cwerdna]

What charger upgrade for 2012?

Probably the software update to make the LEAF's charger compatible with certain GE EVSEs.

Yeah... I've never heard about a "charger upgrade for 2012" either, but re: the GE issue, Google for site:mynissanleaf.com wattstation fix.

 

[tkdbrusco]

The only Nissan statement about upgradeabiity that I saw was the Brian Brockman statement "We are trying to maintain backward compatibility as we develop future technology." which he made when he announced the ill fated battery rental for approximately $100 per month.

But most of the Nissan statements on upgradeability have been to not expect any upgrade path other than a new LEAF.

When you sell a low range EV (sub 100mi) that will degrade to an unreasonable range in less than 5 years and 100K miles, you need to offer a replacement battery option. Right now they do that with the 24kwh lizard pack for $5500. If the 30kwh pack fits in the same case, which for manufacturing reasons, I'm sure it will, I don't see why they wouldn't offer that option as well. It just makes no sense not to.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

It is interesting that I am seeing a consistent SOC on Leaf Spy Pro of about 92% after a full 100% charge. It makes me think that the BSM is reserving more of the new Lizard battery's top end capacity...

Actually, I saw this on my 2012 this morning. It was the first time I'd used Leaf Spy directly after a full charge, and saw 92% SOC (with pack voltage of 393.13V). I was kind of surprised by this, thinking that I should be seeing something more like 97-98% instead.

 

[davewill]

It is interesting that I am seeing a consistent SOC on Leaf Spy Pro of about 92% after a full 100% charge. It makes me think that the BSM is reserving more of the new Lizard battery's top end capacity...

Actually, I saw this on my 2012 this morning. It was the first time I'd used Leaf Spy directly after a full charge, and saw 92% SOC (with pack voltage of 393.13V). I was kind of surprised by this, thinking that I should be seeing something more like 97-98% instead.

It would certainly make the removal of the 80% charge mode more reasonable. It would also allow them to hide more degradation in the early life of the battery by reducing the reserve rather than decreasing range.

Wouldn't it be nice if Nissan simply shared details about the pack instead of making us into amateur detectives?

 

[DaveInAvl]

If the 30kwh pack fits in the same case, which for manufacturing reasons, I'm sure it will, I don't see why they wouldn't offer that option as well. It just makes no sense not to.

Also be nice if those LEAF owners who purchase a new battery could have some option to use their old one in a household battery thingie like Tesla is offering...

 

[nerys]

well. part of the reason you get it so cheap is they resell the battery they get back from you (the battery is typically fine I would guess it either has a bad cell or simply not enough capacity for what you need it for but plenty of capacity for many other uses)

 

[keydiver]

Is that really happening? Does Nissan have a viable outlet for 33% degraded packs? I just don't see how realistic that can be, given that these packs are defective, using chemistry that is effected to much by heat. How does Nissan know they are going to a cold enough environment to stabilize their degradation? I have a huge battery array in my house for backup power, and although I would love to replace it with Lithium Ion technology, I certainly wouldn't want a used Nissan pack here in my climate. Maybe if it was in an air conditioned room, but certainly not in my garage or outside the house.