Your reaction to the battery capacity warranty is

Poll ended at Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:43 pm

Positive
61%
117
Negative
17%
33
Neutral
22%
42
 
Total votes: 192
SSS
Posts: 34
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Re: Poll : What is your reaction to 70% / 5 yrs / 60k warran

Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:35 am

Positive.
Leaf ownership is a choice I made knowing this is the first generation and improvements will certainly come, probably before my lease ends. I still chose to get my first 100% electric car early and have no regrets. I am saving real dollars every month using the Leaf in place of the SUV. Even greater than the $450 savings I realize each month from not buying gas and related services, Nissan Leaf gives me the ability to finally be individually free from gasoline and the problems I see stemming from our dependency on international oil. Thank you Nissan. Remember, all things perish with use and will need to be maintained. I certainly had learned this long before the Leaf.
One more thing, notice where most of the complaints are coming from . It seems counter intuitive that most of us who actually live where we will more likely see battery issues are somewhat positive toward the new warranty. Many of the negative concerns come from the cool zones or even the far north. BTW, we're 73f and sunny today. Could we be suffering from sun stroke?

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Nubo
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Re: Poll : What is your reaction to 70% / 5 yrs / 60k warran

Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:10 pm

A major positive. It puts a limit on the worst-case scenario, which is absolutely necessary for any mainstream buyers to be able to determine if the LEAF will be a viable option for them. And, the enthusiasts (us) who bought WITHOUT ANY such reassurance, get a bonus of a retroactive warranty. Definitely a step in the right direction.

My only reservation is that it is trivial to adjust the firmware to light up as many or as few "bars" as one would like, so this is potentially a huge loophole. Who's to say that Nissan simply recalibrate the first 3 bars for all LEAFs to "hold" 50% of the SOC, such as the bottom 5 bars do now? Or even worse, adjust on a per-vehicle basis. E.g.: "Here's your LEAF. You will notice that all 12 bars are lighted again"... and you run out of power 40 miles later. Hopefully Nissan is smarter than to walk into that quicksand and I will give them the benefit of the doubt pending the final details.

"Bars" are not an objective measurement. Hopefully the warranty will offer objective terms that both parties can rely upon as true battery capacity measurement.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Poll : What is your reaction to 70% / 5 yrs / 60k warran

Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:12 pm

I say positive but only because this announcement is a warm up to the real change which will be a battery exchange/purchase program for all LEAFs without regard to degradation or mileage.

iow, this announcement is a smoke screen but obscuring something very good for us.
44,598 miles on 2011 LEAF (retired) 2013 LEAF;26,033 miles. Ah; 61.14, Hx; 93.45% kwh 20.5 @70% estimate; 121,135 miles
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DesertDenizen
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Re: Poll : What is your reaction to 70% / 5 yrs / 60k warran

Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:08 pm

Negative. I lost a bar at 6,771 miles despite impeccable charging and driving habits. I put on about 6,000 miles a year, so I will face a car with only 30,000 miles as it falls out of warranty coverage. I would definitely have leased if I knew that despite low mileage and vigilant battery protecting practices I would already be down 15%. Ideally I will get a buyback offer and immediately lease a new Leaf.
[color=#0040BF]Fully charged by photo voltaic system.
Nov 9 2014 got my 2015 lease, SL. My third Leaf. Tucson AZ. 5,500 miles, 5.2 long term m/kwh. Let us see if the 'lizard' battery does better than my 2011, which lost a capacity bar at 6,771 miles.

KJD
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Re: Poll : What is your reaction to 70% / 5 yrs / 60k warran

Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:14 pm

My view is positive. My car is just one year old and 10,000 miles so far, but the battery is holding up really well so far.
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EdmondLeaf
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Re: Poll : What is your reaction to 70% / 5 yrs / 60k warran

Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:16 pm

Nubo wrote:A major positive. It puts a limit on the worst-case scenario, which is absolutely necessary for any mainstream buyers to be able to determine if the LEAF will be a viable option for them. And, the enthusiasts (us) who bought WITHOUT ANY such reassurance, get a bonus of a retroactive warranty. Definitely a step in the right direction.

My only reservation is that it is trivial to adjust the firmware to light up as many or as few "bars" as one would like, so this is potentially a huge loophole. Who's to say that Nissan simply recalibrate the first 3 bars for all LEAFs to "hold" 50% of the SOC, such as the bottom 5 bars do now? Or even worse, adjust on a per-vehicle basis. E.g.: "Here's your LEAF. You will notice that all 12 bars are lighted again"... and you run out of power 40 miles later. Hopefully Nissan is smarter than to walk into that quicksand and I will give them the benefit of the doubt pending the final details.

"Bars" are not an objective measurement. Hopefully the warranty will offer objective terms that both parties can rely upon as true battery capacity measurement.

Looks like is hard to regain lost trust. What about GID as indication of capacity remaining/lost?

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TomT
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Re: Poll : What is your reaction to 70% / 5 yrs / 60k warran

Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:07 pm

+1

downeykp wrote:My vote was a negative. How is it possible that Nissan did not know that fried batteries were going to be a problem. They had to know there was going to be a problem, but they sold the car anyway. Someone made the decision to hide what they had to of known.
SL-e with 59,983 miles/8 bars/187 Gids/43.47 AHr/66% SOH/45.19% Hx 13Mar15.

59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 with new Lizard battery.
62,141 miles/12 bars/276 Gids/66.14 AHr/100% SOH/102.58% Hx 11Jul15.

TurboFroggy
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Re: Poll : What is your reaction to 70% / 5 yrs / 60k warran

Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:12 pm

I see this as an overwhelmingly positive move by Nissan. I think there is a lot of negativity on MNL around the battery problem that affects %0.05 of all Leaf owners. For the vast majority of Leaf drivers, who remain silent, they are not experiencing capacity loss issues they are not posting/complaining about it. And most people who might be interested in an EV has no idea that this is even an issue. The "unwashed masses" have no idea that these cars even exist, let alone the nuances of ownership of an EV.
And for all those who voted this as a negative, don't you have some cute kitten videos on Youtube to vote down as well? :lol:
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Nubo
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Re: Poll : What is your reaction to 70% / 5 yrs / 60k warran

Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:16 pm

EdmondLeaf wrote:
Nubo wrote:A major positive. It puts a limit on the worst-case scenario, which is absolutely necessary for any mainstream buyers to be able to determine if the LEAF will be a viable option for them. And, the enthusiasts (us) who bought WITHOUT ANY such reassurance, get a bonus of a retroactive warranty. Definitely a step in the right direction.

My only reservation is that it is trivial to adjust the firmware to light up as many or as few "bars" as one would like, so this is potentially a huge loophole. Who's to say that Nissan simply recalibrate the first 3 bars for all LEAFs to "hold" 50% of the SOC, such as the bottom 5 bars do now? Or even worse, adjust on a per-vehicle basis. E.g.: "Here's your LEAF. You will notice that all 12 bars are lighted again"... and you run out of power 40 miles later. Hopefully Nissan is smarter than to walk into that quicksand and I will give them the benefit of the doubt pending the final details.

"Bars" are not an objective measurement. Hopefully the warranty will offer objective terms that both parties can rely upon as true battery capacity measurement.

Looks like is hard to regain lost trust. What about GID as indication of capacity remaining/lost?


A warranty does not depend on trust, rather it is the other way around. It is a contract and needs to be enforceable. For this to be possible the language of the warranty must be unambiguous.

I see no need to base a warranty on "Bars" or "Gids", which are both variable abstractions, when the world already has standard units for energy which are unambiguous and and universally accepted. I would propose the Kilowatt hour. :)
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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surfingslovak
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Re: Poll : What is your reaction to 70% / 5 yrs / 60k warran

Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:03 pm

TurboFroggy wrote:I think there is a lot of negativity on MNL around the battery problem that affects %0.05 of all Leaf owners.
Image

Matt, you are joking, right? I get that you, and everyone you know, are doing great in the cool PNW, but are you familiar with the PIA battery study? I believe it shows clearly that range loss is likely something, which affects more than just 0.05% of owners. Granted, there are shades or gray, and not everyone who is significantly affected will feel the same way. It's also clear that you cannot make everyone happy, and some folks have a sunnier outlook than others, but could we at least agree that battery longevity and the viability of EVs in very hot and very cold climates is a significant issue not just for Nissan, but for the EV industry as a whole?

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