Down to 50 miles Range

Hi, I leased a Leaf for 3 years and the was plan was to drive it 25 miles each way to work. I did a 15K miles per year lease to accommodate that.. The car has just not been usable to drive to work since October. I read the post here and people talk about loosing Bars but I have lost no bars, so I am not sure exactly what I a missing. I have just lost range and it seems to be more than what I am seeing others talk about. On cold days I would not even try to take it to work but now even on warmer days, I get home and I am just cutting it so close I am not comfortable. I am in NC it is not really cold here. I really didn't expect this I thought from what I read I would be fine with 50 miles a day for the three years I leased the car. Was I mistaken? Is this what I should expect? I really would rather just turn it in and take the loss than pay insurance on a car I cannot use.

Are you running it down to Low Battery Warning or Very Low Battery Warning?
The capacity bars are the thin bars to the right. Easy to read at 100% charge how many are missing.

What year model?
S, SV or SL?
Does it have the QC port?
When did you take delivery?
How many miles does it have on it now?
Are you sure you've lost no small bars (to the right of long bars)?

Since you took delivery in 1966, your car is almost 50 years old... perhaps that is why you have lost range?

Seriously, need more info like:

--how fast you drive
--whether you are charging to 100%
--how have you determined that you don't have enough range
--how much you run the heater
--do you preheat in winter
--do you know what the capacity bars are as opposed to fuel bars (the latter will always be 12 on a full charge no matter how much capacity has been lost)

etc., etc.

tylerdare said:

I am in NC it is not really cold here. I really didn't expect this I thought from what I read I would be fine with 50 miles a day for the three years I leased the car. Was I mistaken?

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I don't think you were mistaken. But the LEAF battery has degraded faster than Nissan originally indicated.

A few thoughts:

- It is not the cold that degrades the battery, but the heat. OTOH, you feel the effects of the degradation in the cold because that is when the range is lowest. So the summers CAUSE the most degradation, but it is during the winters that you feel the effects of that degradation.
- We live in VA and our LEAF is now three years old and we also feel it in wintertime. This winter when it was 10F and windy, range dropped below 50 miles. This is true even though we also have not lost a single capacity bar. But at 45F and lower winds, 65 miles is a more accurate guess.
- I think temps got pretty cold in NC this winter, so that is why you felt the degradation. But even if you are getting the low battery warning on the way home, you likely have ten or more miles left when you arrive home. That is because the LBW comes on at a higher-and-higher SOC as the battery degrades. In our LEAF, when we get the LBW these days, the SOC is 25% or higher.

As it warms up, I doubt you will have any difficulty making it to the end of your lease while using the LEAF for your commute.

I hope this helps.

Sorry I didn't put these answers in the post. Let me try to answer them all

The car is a 2012. I took delivery in October 2012 and I should turn it in this year.
It has the quick charger. SL Blue
I do not drive aggressive. I get between 4.1Kw to 4.3Kw per mile. I think that is fairly good from what I have seen.
I do charge to 100% due to the commute I do I always feel I need some spare should something happen rather than be on the very edge.
I never run the heater in fact I could not. I have run the AC on the way home in the summer.
I do preheat and I keep it in the garage normally.
Apparently I do not know what I am looking at as far as the Bars I need to figure that out after ready what you are saying. I always have 12 bars as you say.
I am currently at 32K miles
When I get home it is saying I have 4 miles left after a 50 mile trip. Again I must not know about this very low warning.
I was born in 66 lol apparently I read something wrong when I did the profile.

I have not taken it in yet about this I really need to do that.

The capacity bars are the smaller dashes to the right of the larger charge bars:


At 32k, you are probably missing at least one bar, maybe 2. I'm in a somewhat hotter climate here, and I will lose my 3rd bar soon at 34k. The first bar is 15% loss, and each bar after that is 6.25% capacity. A trip to the dealer would probably be a total waste, as they won't do anything until you lose 4 bars. But, you also have to realize that you still have a bunch of range left in those last 2 bars. Have you reset your efficiency gauge lately? At 4.1 to 4.3 miles/kWh you shouldn't be that low when getting home after 50 miles, as that would mean you only used 11.9 kWh, which is only a little over 50% of the new capacity. Is there any way you can either drive slower or take a route that allows you to drive slower?

Here's another picture that labels the different gauges:



I think you should have plenty of capacity for your commute once the weather warms up a bit. And don't be afraid to use it past the LBW.

If you want to know how much energy you have left buy a LeafDD (if you can find one used) or get Leaf Spy (info at link in my signature). That way you can be confident about how much is really left in the "tank".

It is just the cold weather and free way driving. By cold I mean anything south of 50 degrees.

It will get better once you start getting warm weather.

Here in Seattle I don't attempt over 60 mile trips in winter.

I could do a 60 mile trip in Seattle Winter weather.

I'm doing 60 to or from work (120 mile commute round trip) and can make that in 30-ish weather with some CC for defrost here in Oregon. Usually get the LBW just as I get to town.
The drive is a bit easier on the battery on the way home (warmer or ?) so haven't had a LBW coming home.

That's in my 2012 with about 15k miles on it.

I do have a stop in the middle I can QC at if/when needed (get some hot chocolate on a cold morning).
But I've been going straight in a lot recently.

desiv

LeftieBiker said:

I could do a 60 mile trip in Seattle Winter weather.

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I've done more too. But not something my wife would ever try.

tylerdare said:

... I am in NC it is not really cold here. I really didn't expect this I thought from what I read I would be fine with 50 miles a day for the three years I leased the car. Was I mistaken? Is this what I should expect? I really would rather just turn it in and take the loss than pay insurance on a car I cannot use.
...
I never run the heater in fact I could not. I have run the AC on the way home in the summer.
...
I am currently at 32K miles
When I get home it is saying I have 4 miles left after a 50 mile trip. Again I must not know about this very low warning.

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You likely have lost one or two capacity bars with your location and miles.

A 2012 LEAF is unlikely to be suitable for a 50 mile round trip in winter.
You indicate that you do not use the heat and with your very efficient miles/kWH you might do 50 miles in winter but doing that using only the built in instrumentation of the 2012 LEAF is aggravating.

Not much fun driving with Distance to Empty being extremely low or with nothing but dashes.
If you are getting home with it showing only 4 miles you should be close to Low Battery Warning, or already received it.

It will be showing dashes before or when Very Low Battery warning happens.

I think if you get LEAF Spy or LEAF Spy Pro your tolerance of using the full range will be better and you should be able to use the LEAF to the end of lease in the fall.

I didn't get it until I had driven my 2011 for 32 months.
Don't know how I tolerated the LEAF without it.
No fun to be two miles from DCQC on Interstate with nothing but dashes.
With LEAF Spy Pro I would have known the real distance to dead in the water.
Probably more than 8 miles at 55 mph.

Sorry the LEAF has not supported your range needs.
But it is nominally a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle and in winter if you want or need heat can be only 30 to 35 miles.

I also have a 2012 (turning my lease in today for a 2015 lease), I have over 40k miles, have not lost a bar (that I can tell), in Maryland, and have a 25 mile commute (mostly highway, rolling backups, 10 mi of back roads). Prior to this winter, I did not have charging at work. On cold days, below 40 degrees, it was a challenge to go the 50-60 miles I needed (used heat sparingly), but was doable. I rarely hit 4 mi/kWh in winter. I would not have been able to make it in single digit temperatures. This past winter would have been real tough but I now have charging at work and close by QCs to assist. I would think that your commute Is doable, but challenging in lower temps. Make sure your heat is truly turned off 2012 controls can be misleading. Your efficiency looks good so not sure why so few miles left at the end. I feel that the car has performed for me exactly as described by this forum before I bought it.

Leaf1 said:

Make sure your heat is truly turned off 2012 controls can be misleading.

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You make a good point here. The heater controls on my 2012 are so frustrating, often putting on the A/C or heat when I don't ask for it. Although the OP said "I never run the heater in fact I could not", without checking the gauge on the power consumption screen, there is no way to tell for sure when the heater is running. :x I finally did the MOSFET transistor mod a few months ago, which is paying off this winter.

If you are stopping when you've got fuel bars showing, you are leaving too much of your capacity on the table. When you have two fuel bars left, you have nearly a third of your capacity still available...and that amount gets bigger as the battery degrades. I strongly recommend that everyone drive the car down to the VLBW at least once so they know how far the car will really go. If you don't have it, I would also get LEAFSpy so that you actually know how much battery is available instead of relying on those @#*%$#in' bars.

davewill said:

If you are stopping when you've got fuel bars showing, you are leaving too much of your capacity on the table. When you have two fuel bars left, you have nearly a third of your capacity still available...and that amount gets bigger as the battery degrades. I strongly recommend that everyone drive the car down to the VLBW at least once so they know how far the car will really go. If you don't have it, I would also get LEAFSpy so that you actually know how much battery is available instead of relying on those @#*%$#in' bars.

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This is news to me. 1/3 of the capacity represented by the bottom two fuel bars? Is this just for the 2011/12 or does this also apply to the 2013 and newer models?

adric22 said:

...1/3 of the capacity represented by the bottom two fuel bars? Is this just for the 2011/12 or does this also apply to the 2013 and newer models?

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I went back and checked Tony Williams 2011 LEAF range charts and that is correct.
Whether new battery or 60% capacity battery about 1/3 of the range is on the last two bars, where a lot of people are unwilling to drive because 2011 and 2012 does not tell you enough to safely and confidently drive there.
See:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Several people reported some 2013s hid more range there.

Also as battery loses capacity the Low Battery and Very Low Battery warnings stay at same stored energy level so they come in sooner.
You might get LBW and still have two fuel or status of charge bars.

I appreciate all of the response. It looks like going by the bars I have not lost any capacity. I took a pic and I will post it when I can.