jake14mw
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:53 pm
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Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Best EVSE/charging solution for my situation?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:14 am

nr427 wrote:If you want to save a few bucks on wire consider installing a NEMA 6-50 outlet. This won't require a neutral wire that the EVSE ignores anyway, and it will still work to charge the Leaf at full speed.


Thanks, what is the downside of that?

jjeff
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Re: Best EVSE/charging solution for my situation?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:39 am

jake14mw wrote:
nr427 wrote:If you want to save a few bucks on wire consider installing a NEMA 6-50 outlet. This won't require a neutral wire that the EVSE ignores anyway, and it will still work to charge the Leaf at full speed.


Thanks, what is the downside of that?

Nothing if just using for an EVSE, the downside is you couldn't use it for something that would require a neutral(stove, etc) down the line and the 6-50 plug is a little harder to find on an EVSE, the 14-50 plug is more common.
Last edited by jjeff on Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Best EVSE/charging solution for my situation?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:20 pm

I just woke up, so correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a Neutral wire, you can install a NEMA 14-50 outlet with Neutral and use a convertible plug with the Neutral prong left off for the EVSE. That lets you use the outlet for other devices. If there is no Neutral, then the above post has it right.
Last edited by LeftieBiker on Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

GlennD
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Re: Best EVSE/charging solution for my situation?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:49 pm

I ran a neutral since the run was only 8 feet and the cost was small I may never use it but at least the 14-50 is fully wired. 40 and 50A range cables are commodities and they are under $20 for 4 foot ones. In the OpenEVSE units I build I simply ignore and insulate the unused neutral.
Tesla popularized the 14-50 connector.

I have heard of people cutting off the pin so the EVSE can be plugged into 60A, 50A, and 30A outlets. All of the other pins are the same. In the OpenEVSE menu you can set the current so for a 30A outlet you would set it for 24A.
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Loved the VW but it sat too low for my old body
Back to a Cirrus White 2017 B250E

jjeff
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Re: Best EVSE/charging solution for my situation?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:01 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I just woke up, so correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a Neutral wire, you can install a NEMA 14-50 outlet with Neutral and use a convertible plug with the Neutral prong left off for the EVSE. That lets you use the outlet for other devices.....

Correct, leaving off the neutral prong on the plug also has the added benefit of letting you plug into a variety of 14--xx outlets, as GlennD talked about.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

wwhitney
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Location: Berkeley, CA

Re: Best EVSE/charging solution for my situation?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:37 pm

alozzy wrote:I'm pretty sure that on most residential electrical panels the neutral and ground are on a common bus.

The only panel in a house where neutrals and grounds are common is the panel with the service disconnect. That's the first circuit breaker in the house after the meter.

Many house have only one panel, with a main circuit breaker that is the service disconnect plus all the branch circuit breakers. In that case the grounds and neutrals will be common in that panel. For any subpanel, or any "main panel" where there is a separate service disconnect, the neutral and grounds should be kept separate.

Cheers, Wayne

wwhitney
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Re: Best EVSE/charging solution for my situation?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:57 pm

Depending on the age of the house, it is possible that the dryer 10-30 receptacle is in fact fed by 10/3 with ground NM cable (4 conductors total), and the installer used a 10-30 receptacle to match an existing dryer plug or due to lack of knowledge. This is not so likely, but if it is the case, that's good. In this case it would be worth switching the dryer receptacle and cord to 14-30, and removing the bonding strap in the dryer.

If you want to share a single circuit between the dryer and the EVSE, that is definitely possible if you have separate neutral and ground (4 conductors total). It's probably OK if you have only three conductors total (2 hots and a neutral) but the circuit originates at a main panel with service disconnect, where the neutrals and grounds are interconnected.

But you would need a method to keep both the dryer and the EVSE from running at once. So you need to install at a minimum a 30 amp DPDT snap switch, such as the Leviton 1288. One side of the snap switch powers a dryer receptacle, either 14-30 if you have 4 total conductors or 10-30 if you have 3 total conductors. The other side powers an EVSE receptacle, preferably 6-30, but 14-30 could be used if you have 4 total conductors. The EVSE receptacle could also be a -50 version (50 amp) if that is preferred, or it could be hardwired. The EVSE, however, would need to be sized for the 30 amp circuit, so set to no more than 24 amps.

All in all that's a bit of trouble, so I would say it only makes sense when running a new circuit would be alot more trouble. If only a little more trouble, run a new circuit.

Cheers, Wayne

jake14mw
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Re: Best EVSE/charging solution for my situation?

Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:08 pm

I really appreciate everyone's excellent feedback. People gave me exactly what I was looking for. At this point, I am definitely leaning towards running a new circuit. I do have another question about that. My garage has insulation, drywall, and is painted. Once I get the wire to the garage, I will need to run it along the wall about 20 feet. I guess I have a choice between cutting the drywall and running the wire through the studs, or putting the wire in metal conduit on the outside of the wall, right?

LeftieBiker
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Re: Best EVSE/charging solution for my situation?

Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:26 pm

If you run the wire above chest height I don't think you need conduit. You could run it along the ceiling, use UF cable for extra safety, and no conduit. You'll want to confirm that though.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

baustin
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Re: Best EVSE/charging solution for my situation?

Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:15 am

jake14mw wrote:I really appreciate everyone's excellent feedback. People gave me exactly what I was looking for. At this point, I am definitely leaning towards running a new circuit. I do have another question about that. My garage has insulation, drywall, and is painted. Once I get the wire to the garage, I will need to run it along the wall about 20 feet. I guess I have a choice between cutting the drywall and running the wire through the studs, or putting the wire in metal conduit on the outside of the wall, right?


Where is your panel located?
Where is the EVSE going to be installed?
Have you picked out the EVSE to purchase?

The answers to the above questions will impact how the new circuit is extended from the panel to the EVSE location.

The run from the panel to the EVSE should be as straight and short as possible. If the walls are finished, just run the wire in conduit on the surface. I would recommend putting any surface mounted wire in conduit, for protection, even if your locale does not require it.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

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