EVSE questions - OpenEVSE, wiring, etc.

so it looks like we will be the owner of a new Leaf S w/ QC tonight.

I've been doing some research into EVSE so that we can charge the car from the house. My wife has access to a level 2 charger at work, and there is a level 3 about a mile from our house if needed as well (only open certain hours). but with a daily commute and errands we wanted to have a level 2 charger at the house as well.

I'm leaning towards the OpenEVSE system, and have a friend that is an electrician that's going to help me with the installation. Plan is to change to a larger subpanel in the basement as all the slots are filled on the existing panels. For now we have a Leaf, but I know some day the wife would like a Tesla. So I'm considering what would be best in relation to "upgrading" in the future to additional power so I don't have to install too much for a newer gen car when the lease is up on ours.

so first question: Get the 30A or 50A OpenEVSE system? I know the 30A is all you need for the leaf but with the price difference only being $20 it would seem to just install the 50Amp charging station and have the extra capacity if needed in the future? will go with the 20' J1772 cord as that will reach both sides of the garage and outside the door in case the garage is not available for parking. lol. pretty sure their current cord will only do 40A

for the panel/wiring in the basement to the outlet in the garage, my friend said we could put a 100A breaker in the main panel to the sub panel, 50Amp breaker in the sub panel, then run the wire out to the wall plug. I would like to install a 14-50 NEMA outlet in the garage and then plug the OpenEVSE into the outlet.

any comments or suggestions or am I missing anything here so far?

any suggestions on wiring from panel to garage (30-40' estimate)? 6 or 8 gauge? Assuming 6 because of the future possibility of using 50A? 6/2 or 6/3? I haven't talked to him yet about this but thought maybe someone on here is in the same boat. I don't want to have to rewire things in 2 years if we decide to get something different or if the battery technology has changed in a new Leaf or Tesla...

new to all of this and looking for suggestions. I'm guessing others have been in the same boat just wanted to "future proof" my installation so I don't have to go back and do it again in the near future.

The 30A OpenEVSE is really 24A. Either replace the input cable and bypass the fuses or go with the 50A unit.

An EVSE or EV car is considered a continuous load and you can only use 80% of the circuit. Eg 24A for a 30A breaker and 32A for a 40A breaker.

speedyr said:

so first question: Get the 30A or 50A OpenEVSE system? I know the 30A is all you need for the leaf but with the price difference only being $20 it would seem to just install the 50Amp charging station and have the extra capacity if needed in the future? will go with the 20' J1772 cord as that will reach both sides of the garage and outside the door in case the garage is not available for parking. lol. pretty sure their current cord will only do 40A

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The three choices of J1772 cable from the OpenEVSE site are provided by Quick Charge Power.

They are 32 amp, 40 amp (extreme lightweight and flexible), or 50 amp.

All three are completely different from the other.

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/searchquick-submit.sc?keywords=J1772plug/cable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just shopped them against Chris's site (he buys from them) and after shipping Chris has a better price! so id buy it all from him.

My opinion for everyone (including myself) is to resist the initial urge to want to buy the most powerful EVSE out there, but buy only what is necessary to charge overnight (say ~8 hrs) -- which means in most cases one that only requires a 20a 240v breaker and so only ordinary 12AWG wire. Not only a safer approach, it is more likely to allow one to expand to two or three EVs (each with its own EVSE) without expensive electrical upgrading.

So the biggest issue may be where to locate the EVSE(s) for best access by the EV(s).

VegasBrad said:

I just shopped them against Chris's site (he buys from them) and after shipping Chris has a better price! so id buy it all from him.

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Awesome. Whichever of the two sites you buy from, you get the same high quality cable drop shipped from Quick Charge Power.

Thanks for your business.

MikeD said:

My opinion for everyone (including myself) is to resist the initial urge to want to buy the most powerful EVSE out there, but buy only what is necessary to charge overnight (say ~8 hrs) -- which means in most cases one that only requires a 20a 240v breaker and so only ordinary 12AWG wire. Not only a safer approach, it is more likely to allow one to expand to two or three EVs (each with its own EVSE) without expensive electrical upgrading.

So the biggest issue may be where to locate the EVSE(s) for best access by the EV(s).

Click to expand...

If someone has 1-3 EVs I think it would be best to at least have one EVSE that supports the highest speed charging as if you have a day which is stretching range it's nice to be able to come home and get things charged up in a few hours again. Then additional EVSEs for each car which could all be smaller. Cost wise it probably doesn't make sense to build one smaller than 24 amps since you don't save much.

I can't see having more than one EV at home unless I get a Brammo, Zero or ideally a KTM Freeride E-XC.

My main question is we will have the Leaf for the next 2 years. The wife really wanted the Tesla but that wasn't in the cards right now but maybe in the future, and we have at least one friend that has one. it would be nice to have a system that is set up for higher output charging with only a cable swap on the EVSE and maybe a swap of the actual circuit breaker. I would prefer to not have to re-wire from the box to the wall outlet and replace the whole EVSE to a higher output setup if we get something that can use the higher output EVSE. My understanding is that the car/EVSE will drop the current down to match whatever you have plugged in, so if I get the 50A openEVSE it will be fine to charge my Leaf @ 20A (or whatever it will draw at 6.6 w/ the QC), but have the capability with a cable swap to support higher output?

Technically it's pretty easy as you won't even need to cable swap. The Tesla comes with a J1772 adaptor.

However, I'm also in the "let the future worry about itself camp." When you get your Tesla, you may decide you also want much faster charging than your 50A system can provide (like dual charging). Who knows what the EVSE of two years from now will look like.

The nice thing about the J1772 protocol is that the car charger will respect the offered current. Since I only have 100A service even if I had a Tesla based car I would still only charge at 32A. The charger would limit the current to what is offered instead of 40A.

Realistically except for using commercial EVSE's, you only need enough current to charge overnight in your cheapest tier.

I did just check and at least some of the bikes are using the same charger (J1772). guess it's time to call a friend at Brammo and see if they have any "refurbs". lol.

I like the idea of "future proofing" by building a larger amperage evse than I currently need. I also like to build units that have dual voltage capability so I only need one EVSE that will work on 110 and 220. Ive built a couple dual voltage portable cables using Tony's lightweight 40 amp j1772 Its a very nice cable.

If your next EV is a Tesla, don't worry about sizing an EVSE for that. You can plug the Tesla cable into your 14-50 outlet - no (edit additional EVSE required. I agree with the recommendation of putting in a 50 amp circuit, but purchase an EVSE based on your current needs. Any 240v unit will allow you to fully charge your car overnight.

jimbo69ny said:

I like the idea of "future proofing" by building a larger amperage evse than I currently need. I also like to build units that have dual voltage capability so I only need one EVSE that will work on 110 and 220. Ive built a couple dual voltage portable cables using Tony's lightweight 40 amp j1772 Its a very nice cable.

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Future proofing is OK but as you increase the power the cable gets VERY LARGE. The 50A cable from Dostar is very heavy since it uses #6 and #8 conductors. It is also the size of a fat garden hose.

It is easy to say bigger is better until you have tried to use the grossly large cables.

billg said:

If your next EV is a Tesla, don't worry about sizing an EVSE for that. You can plug the Tesla cable into your 14-50 outlet - no EVSE required. I agree with the recommendation of putting in a 50 amp circuit, but purchase an EVSE based on your current needs. Any 240v unit will allow you to fully charge your car overnight.

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Just to clarify what you are are calling a cable IS an EVSE.

I was afraid of that Glenn. The orange 50 amp j1772 was tempting because its only a hair larger in diameter than the 30 amp Leviton cords. I am used to the Leviton cords because I have those at the charging stations at my rental properties. I have now built 2 portable dual voltage evse's using the 40 amp quick charge j1772's and they are nice! I do wish the jacket was a little thicker though. I dont know how much rough handling or abuse they would be able to take.

jimbo69ny said:

I was afraid of that Glenn. The orange 50 amp j1772 was tempting because its only a hair larger in diameter than the 30 amp Leviton cords. I am used to the Leviton cords because I have those at the charging stations at my rental properties. I have now built 2 portable dual voltage evse's using the 40 amp quick charge j1772's and they are nice! I do wish the jacket was a little thicker though. I dont know how much rough handling or abuse they would be able to take.

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Yes, The Quick Charge Cables are very nice. There is a report of a user that already has the insulation twisted.

I do know that Tony told the later cables have better insulation but it is never going to match the very thick UL approved insulation. As an aside, he said the cable comes on 1500 foot rolls!

I have a twenty-five foot ITT cable on my EVSE and it has held up very well.

GlennD said:

jimbo69ny said:

I was afraid of that Glenn. The orange 50 amp j1772 was tempting because its only a hair larger in diameter than the 30 amp Leviton cords. I am used to the Leviton cords because I have those at the charging stations at my rental properties. I have now built 2 portable dual voltage evse's using the 40 amp quick charge j1772's and they are nice! I do wish the jacket was a little thicker though. I dont know how much rough handling or abuse they would be able to take.

Click to expand...

Yes, The Quick Charge Cables are very nice. There is a report of a user that already has the insulation twisted.

I do know that Tony told the later cables have better insulation but it is never going to match the very thick UL approved insulation. As an aside, he said the cable comes on 1500 foot rolls!

I have a twenty-five foot ITT cable on my EVSE and it has held up very well.

Click to expand...

Whats different with the ITT cable? I searched for it and it brought up a bunch of Time Warner style cable

GlennD said:

jimbo69ny said:

I was afraid of that Glenn. The orange 50 amp j1772 was tempting because its only a hair larger in diameter than the 30 amp Leviton cords. I am used to the Leviton cords because I have those at the charging stations at my rental properties. I have now built 2 portable dual voltage evse's using the 40 amp quick charge j1772's and they are nice! I do wish the jacket was a little thicker though. I dont know how much rough handling or abuse they would be able to take.

Click to expand...

Yes, The Quick Charge Cables are very nice. There is a report of a user that already has the insulation twisted.

I do know that Tony told the later cables have better insulation but it is never going to match the very thick UL approved insulation. As an aside, he said the cable comes on 1500 foot rolls!

I have a twenty-five foot ITT cable on my EVSE and it has held up very well.

Click to expand...

Our shipment of cable to arrive in two weeks has a slightly thicker outer jacket and smooth exterior finish. Obviously, if you want the big heavy duty versions, we sell those, too. It's a compromise, as all things in life. Lighter weight and flexibility for heavy weight and less flexible, but more durable.

We sell far more linear feet of the lighter stuff by a LARGE margin. We will have 80 amp capable cable of the same design in about a month.

jimbo69ny said:

Whats different with the ITT cable? I searched for it and it brought up a bunch of Time Warner style cable

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ITT / Leviton stopped producing their high quality cables (30 and 75 amp) about one year ago. They now market the Yazaki 30 amp cables (good quality).