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 Post subject: Bosch or EVSE Upgrade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:47 am
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Location: Atlanta, GA
Delivery Date: 07 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 404844
I have looked around the forum and seen a couple of posts on this, but not seen a definitive answer. I just purchased a 2013 Nissan Leaf with the QC package. I have been using the trickle charger, but knew I was going to have to go with the normal charge for 3-4 hour charging.

My situation currently is that I have no more open connections available on the electrical panel in the basement. I will need to add a sub panel with a 30A breaker and pull a 40A 8 guage wire from the basement to the garage. The distance should be about 20-25 ft. Normally, the EVSE upgrade would be less expensive than the charger. But in this case, the cost of the wiring is about the same whether I put in a Nemo L6-30 receptacle or hard wire to a charging unit (~$600-$1000). So that leaves just the difference between the charging unit ($600) vs the EVSE Upgrade (~$350 with the 110 adapter plus S&H). If you factor in the 30% rebate, that further shrinks to ($400 vs $230). Is it worth going the EVSE upgrade route for ~$150 considering my total cost will be $1000+? I do get the portability of the 220V EVSE cable, but then I'd have to buy more adapters for that to work. And I honestly don't think I'm going to be going long distance anytime soon. The number of public chargers in Georgia (especially nothern GA) is not very good. I can't even travel to the outlet mall (which is 35 miles from my house) without some trepidation. So chances of my using the EVSE Upgrade cable anywhere other than my house in the near future is remote.

A further wrinkle to this is this article I read http://green.autoblog.com/2011/12/04/fu ... range-wil/ The reason for getting the charger was to "future proof" myself for perhaps the next EV I'd get a couple of years down the road. Maybe I'm over thinking this. I know that the EVSE Upgrade gets universal praise (a feat rarely achieved) so I'm sure it's a good product. And there isn't much known about the Bosch. But Bosch is a pretty good company as well and I'm sure they would stand by their product. Else I'm sure they would refund me the money and since my big cost was really the electrical connection, I'd then be able to switch to the EVSE Upgrade fairly easily.

In fact, since I'm doing the wiring, I'll get another 8 guage wire into the garage at the same time. I could always add a Fridge in the garage at a later date.

Thanks for any advice.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
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Location: SoCal
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
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The Bosch units are now just shipping (if their timeline is correct) so reliability is a big unknown. FYI these units are not made by Bosch themselves, but are re-branded Delta (?) units. Blink sells the top of the line model themselves as the Blink HQ and with a black housing instead of the Bosch's white.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:35 pm 
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Location: San Diego, CA
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0191
Pretty simple to me...Bosch is an unknown, Delta is an unknown. The cheapest product doesn't always equal the best value. And don't forget that the cheap Bosch unit is low power and short cord...It is $800 to get the full power unit with the full length cord.

* If you want the cheapest solution and are okay with having the Nissan cordset in the garage, or are wiling to put up with the inconvenience of packing it in the car when you need it, then have your cordset upgraded to 240 volts and use that.

* If you want the convenience of a Level 2 EVSE in the garage and you want to leave the cordset in the car, then choose a high quality EVSE to mount on the wall. Clipper Creek makes the highest quality EVSEs overall that I've seen. If you're bent on getting the Bosch unit, at least wait until others have ordered them or tested them...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Location: Orange County, CA
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
I recommend everyone should get the evse upgrade. Home wall unit is up to you. I prefer to carry my portable with me.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:17 pm 
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Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose
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os2baba wrote:
I do get the portability of the 220V EVSE cable, but then I'd have to buy more adapters for that to work. And I honestly don't think I'm going to be going long distance anytime soon. The number of public chargers in Georgia (especially nothern GA) is not very good. I can't even travel to the outlet mall (which is 35 miles from my house) without some trepidation. So chances of my using the EVSE Upgrade cable anywhere other than my house in the near future is remote.
It sounds to me like you are thinking backwards there. If there were lots of public charging stations in your area, you wouldn't need the EVSE upgrade for public charging. Public charging stations already have a cable with a J1772 (or if you are really lucky a CHAdeMO) connector, so they plug directly into your car. It is the lack of public stations which can make the upgrade valuable on the road. You can charge at most RV parks, or any friend's dryer outlet, or at a garage that has a welder, or a motel if you can get to where their room air conditioner plugs in.

Also, as Randy pointed out, that $600 Bosch only has an 18 foot cord. You really should get the longest cord you can, which is 25 feet.

Ray

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:34 pm 
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As stated, there may be situations where you can pull 240V when you are in the field. I have located several "plugs" at my friends who I visit. Getting 2 hours, even on my slow old 2011 on board charger can make the difference between a doable pleasurable trip and a difficult inconvenient unwelcome adventure.

There is one way to alter the older style drier plug so it fits both 30 and 50 amps, and the Tesla style adaptor is common. The "quick 220" product may help you locate and conflate two hot legs at almost any location that has electric service (which is most places).

Matter of fact, I find it amusing that there is electricity almost every place there is a structure in America, and charging isn't easy...

Mull it over in any case... The mental overhead of thinking through the trip gets reduced over time..

planet4ever wrote:
os2baba wrote:
I do get the portability of the 220V EVSE cable, but then I'd have to buy more adapters for that to work. And I honestly don't think I'm going to be going long distance anytime soon. The number of public chargers in Georgia (especially nothern GA) is not very good. I can't even travel to the outlet mall (which is 35 miles from my house) without some trepidation. So chances of my using the EVSE Upgrade cable anywhere other than my house in the near future is remote.
It sounds to me like you are thinking backwards there. If there were lots of public charging stations in your area, you wouldn't need the EVSE upgrade for public charging. Public charging stations already have a cable with a J1772 (or if you are really lucky a CHAdeMO) connector, so they plug directly into your car. It is the lack of public stations which can make the upgrade valuable on the road. You can charge at most RV parks, or any friend's dryer outlet, or at a garage that has a welder, or a motel if you can get to where their room air conditioner plugs in.

Also, as Randy pointed out, that $600 Bosch only has an 18 foot cord. You really should get the longest cord you can, which is 25 feet.

Ray


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:47 am
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Location: Atlanta, GA
Delivery Date: 07 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 404844
Randy wrote:
Pretty simple to me...Bosch is an unknown, Delta is an unknown. The cheapest product doesn't always equal the best value. And don't forget that the cheap Bosch unit is low power and short cord...It is $800 to get the full power unit with the full length cord.

* If you want the cheapest solution and are okay with having the Nissan cordset in the garage, or are wiling to put up with the inconvenience of packing it in the car when you need it, then have your cordset upgraded to 240 volts and use that.

* If you want the convenience of a Level 2 EVSE in the garage and you want to leave the cordset in the car, then choose a high quality EVSE to mount on the wall. Clipper Creek makes the highest quality EVSEs overall that I've seen. If you're bent on getting the Bosch unit, at least wait until others have ordered them or tested them...


Actually the $600 Bosch with the 30A capacity and 18 ft cable works well for me. I don't need even the 18ft really. I was initially considering the Clipper Creek EVSE, but even the their local dealer thought that the Bosch unit was better on paper. The 30A Leviton is $850 on Amazon and I considered that as well since it's a plugin model. But again, because I have to do the wiring anyway, it's not saving any installation cost. But your advice is sound. I'll wait for a month or so and see how the Bosch performs in the real world. If it does well, I'll go with it.


Last edited by os2baba on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:47 am
Posts: 8
Location: Atlanta, GA
Delivery Date: 07 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 404844
planet4ever wrote:
os2baba wrote:
I do get the portability of the 220V EVSE cable, but then I'd have to buy more adapters for that to work. And I honestly don't think I'm going to be going long distance anytime soon. The number of public chargers in Georgia (especially nothern GA) is not very good. I can't even travel to the outlet mall (which is 35 miles from my house) without some trepidation. So chances of my using the EVSE Upgrade cable anywhere other than my house in the near future is remote.
It sounds to me like you are thinking backwards there. If there were lots of public charging stations in your area, you wouldn't need the EVSE upgrade for public charging. Public charging stations already have a cable with a J1772 (or if you are really lucky a CHAdeMO) connector, so they plug directly into your car. It is the lack of public stations which can make the upgrade valuable on the road. You can charge at most RV parks, or any friend's dryer outlet, or at a garage that has a welder, or a motel if you can get to where their room air conditioner plugs in.

Also, as Randy pointed out, that $600 Bosch only has an 18 foot cord. You really should get the longest cord you can, which is 25 feet.

Ray


My reasoning behind the lack of public charging options is that I'm unlikely to travel out of the city. So am not likely to be in a situation (for the most part) where I'd be in a place where I'd need to charge at a friend's place. Better to have the 220V cable than not, but if I had to choose just one from a cost perspective, since I'm leasing the car, it makes more sense to get the charger since I'd still have that after I return the car. I'm actually not sure why Nissan doesn't provide it with the QC package. I'm sure they can source it for cheaper given the economy of scales. Look at Honda giving away a 240V charger with the Fit.


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