SAE Officially Approves New Fast-Charging Combo

SAE Officially Approves New Fast-Charging Combo

http://insideevs.com/welcome-to-2009-sae-releases-new-fast-charging-combo-coupler-standard-sae-j1772-for-plug-in-evs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From TomMoloughney Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:33 am

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=205597#p205597" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BMW has had a couple dozen ActiveE's using the SAE Combo plug for a while now, undoubtedly testing it for the i3. Here is a picture of an ActiveE charge port with it that was taken at EVS26 in California last month. The plug can fit in the same opening currently used on the ActiveE for the J1772.

I also have a picture of a CHAdeMO connector next to the SAE plug. They really isn't that much difference in weight and size when you hold them both up at the same time. I didn't take these pictures, but I have seen and held both connectors at the same time.

Pictures in above link

Click to expand...

At first I was wondering why they had separate connectors for DC Level 1 and DC Level 2, but then it dawned on me they were just showing both the male and female ends... :lol:

Great now we just need car 1 to be built and charger 1 to be installed.

Ah...it is a thing of beauty :lol: Let's up the confusion a bit. Level 1 DC is what we're used to calling QC. And level 2 would then be DFQC (dang fast quick charging). Now, I can't really tell what is going on in the foot-noting. The asterisks don't correspond to asterisks, but probably to notes 1 and 2. Here they tell us that the BEV charge times are based on a 25kWh battery. And the PlugIn PEV's, well, they don't have to say, because after all they are Hybrids :? Also the BEV's only go from 20% to 80% SOC, presumably because no one ever goes out of those bounds. Or is just that the charger will refuse to charge outside those ranges? My best guess is it will drop to trickle, but there's no indication of that.

Maybe I'm staring at a product slick, and should know better than to take it as data.

smkettner said:

Great now we just need car 1 to be built and charger 1 to be installed.

Click to expand...

And when we get actual news about Frankenplug cars being built along with numbers, they can be added to http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8968.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

scottf200 said:

From TomMoloughney Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:33 am

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=205597#p205597" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BMW has had a couple dozen ActiveE's using the SAE Combo plug for a while now, undoubtedly testing it for the i3. Here is a picture of an ActiveE charge port with it that was taken at EVS26 in California last month. The plug can fit in the same opening currently used on the ActiveE for the J1772.

I also have a picture of a CHAdeMO connector next to the SAE plug. They really isn't that much difference in weight and size when you hold them both up at the same time. I didn't take these pictures, but I have seen and held both connectors at the same time.

Pictures in above link

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

They may have some concept cars running around .... but it sure ain't in the BMW 100 series lease vehicles. But like the post above says - The brain childS at SAE now have a plug. As far as I can tell no one plans to sell a car that uses it. Has anyone heard of any charger company building Franken plug chargers yet? What do they call that? ..... all dressed up with no place to go? So much work to defeat chademo.

GeekEV said:

At first I was wondering why they had separate connectors for DC Level 1 and DC Level 2, but then it dawned on me they were just showing both the male and female ends... :lol:

Click to expand...

I did the same. If they were going to show both on the DC, then they should have shown both on the AC as well.

What does note 1 mean? charging starts at 20%soc. Does that mean it will not charge at all if you are above 20%soc. Or does it mean that it wont charge at all if you are below 20% soc? Why is this limitation even here? Stopping at 80%SOC for the 1c rate is fine and makes sense. I just don't understand the first statement.

And what is with all the hate for the new standard. At least they are done and now we can see what it is they've designed.

Tom posted this on the insideevs article comments:

Tom Moloughney
October 15, 2012 at 5:15 pm

BMW has a few ActiveE’s outfitted with the SAE combo plug for testing. I actually charged an ActiveE using it last month. It was pretty awesome watching the state of charge on the car go up a percentage every 15 or 20 seconds. It charged the 32kWh pack completely in under an hour, but drastically slowed down after reaching 80% in about 25 minutes.

As mentioned above it will be available on the i3 when it launches next year.

Click to expand...

hill said:

Has anyone heard of any charger company building Franken plug chargers yet? What do they call that? ..... all dressed up with no place to go? So much work to defeat chademo.

Click to expand...

ABB (Europe) has built one.

ABB Switzerland Ltd
E-Mobility
Brown Boveri Platz 3
CH-5400 Baden
Phone +41 58 588 56 56
Fax +41 58 586 06 01
http://www.abb.ch/emobility" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zurich, Switzerland, March 14, 2012– ABB, the leading power and automation technology group, today announced it has signed a $5 million dollar non-exclusive licensing agreement with ECOtality, Inc. (NASDAQ: ECTY), a leader in clean electric transportation and storage technologies, to utilize ECOtality’s Blink® Network for ABB’s electric vehicle (EV) charging systems.

The Blink Network is a robust operating platform that enables EV charging providers to integrate with utilities and other third parties to facilitate data exchange, utility services, energy management, media communications, and membership and payment programs. The Blink Network provides EV drivers the freedom to travel as they choose and conveniently charge at Blink enabled commercial locations along the way.

Concurrently, ABB made a follow-on investment in ECOtality of $5 million in the form of convertible debt. This investment follows the $14 million venture capital investment ABB made in the company in 2011. ABB’s EV infrastructure portfolio was strengthened last year following the acquisition of Netherlands-based Epyon, an early leader in electric vehicle charging infrastructure solutions, including DC fast charging systems and associated back-office systems which can be connected to various Business-to-Consumer service platforms such as the Blink Network.

http://www.ecotality.com/media/press-releases/abb-signs-licensing-agreement-with-ecotality-to-utilize-the-blink-ev-charging-network/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TonyWilliams said:

ABB ... to utilize ECOtality’s Blink® Network for ABB’s electric vehicle (EV) charging systems.

Click to expand...

Let's hope it's just the "network" they're utilizing and not the core hardware/operating system. The last thing we need is more unreliable charging stations.

TonyWilliams said:

The Blink Network is a robust operating platform ...

Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol:



P.S. Yes, I know you were just quoting their press release.

So will there be a Chademo converter for ther DC QC on my 2012 Leaf or am I SOL?

palmermd said:

And what is with all the hate for the new standard. At least they are done and now we can see what it is they've designed.

Click to expand...

My dislike for the new standard is that I (and many of my LEAF owner friends in the US) bought the car based on the Chademo DC FC system that it supports, back when there was no Frankenplug standard in the works, and we thought that was the way to go AND WE BOUGHT INTO IT.

All I've ever heard from SAE is that they like one plug rather than two and some ergonomic complaints about the Chademo connector itself (which has been fixed with new handle designs).

The Franken (tm) has always been about being the "Anti-Chademo". That's what I don't like about it. The "not invented here" type of thinking. They didn't even TRY to make it backwards compatible with Chademo, and in fact went out of their way to make it non-compatible...

Personally, I still think the LEAF design on the front of the car is best (where one or two connectors is moot). Having a single connector on the side of the car is NOT as good. You can't even walk between cars without worrying about hitting the connector when it is plugged in...

Randy said:

All I've ever heard from SAE is that they like one plug rather than two and some ergonomic complaints about the Chademo connector itself (which has been fixed with new handle designs).

The Franken (tm) has always been about being the "Anti-Chademo". That's what I don't like about it. The "not invented here" type of thinking. They didn't even TRY to make it backwards compatible with Chademo, and in fact went out of their way to make it non-compatible...

Personally, I still think the LEAF design on the front of the car is best (where one or two connectors is moot). Having a single connector on the side of the car is NOT as good. You can't even walk between cars without worrying about hitting the connector when it is plugged in...

Click to expand...

The other "plus" for Frankenplug according to the SAE snake oil salesman was that it would fit in an existing gasoline door. That's apparently important when you're building electric cars.

Rauv said:

So will there be a Chademo converter for ther DC QC on my 2012 Leaf or am I SOL?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't quite write off Chademo quite yet. Chademo wisely made their architecture "open" format less than two months ago (August 2012), just like Frankenplug is. Chademo has many years and THOUSANDS of actual chargers, plus 40,000 cars using that design.

A factory will open up this winter with capability to make 150,000/year more of those Chademo cars. Frankenplug has ZERO / NADA / NUTTIN'.

PREDICTION: Any Frankenplug cars will be looking for converters to Chademo, long before you are looking for theirs.

If we don't use the CHAdeMO standard, we should use the Tesla standard. I definitely don't care for much of anything the SAE does.

EVDrive said:

I definitely don't care for much of anything the SAE does.

Click to expand...

Starting with primary wire.... why does SAE wire have less copper than AWG? :|
Does SAE use SAE wire sizes in the QC plug

Randy said:

palmermd said:

And what is with all the hate for the new standard. At least they are done and now we can see what it is they've designed.

Click to expand...

My dislike for the new standard is that I (and many of my LEAF owner friends in the US) bought the car based on the Chademo DC FC system that it supports, back when there was no Frankenplug standard in the works, and we thought that was the way to go AND WE BOUGHT INTO IT.

Click to expand...

I would think that many LEAF owners that bought that option may be a little leary about using it because of the heat generated and battery degradation.

scottf200 said:

I would think that many LEAF owners that bought that option may be a little leary about using it because of the heat generated and battery degradation.

Click to expand...

I think it pales in comparison to extended exposure to ambient heat.

If the batteries are at 70F, and I charge to 50-70%, it will only heat up the battery a few degrees. The fastest charge rate is 2C. Doing a charge like that over and over WILL heat up the battery cumulatively (I know from first hand experience).

But, one DC charge of a 70F battery to 100% might heat the battery to 90F (total guess, but way more heat than a single charge to 50-70%). Still not a huge problem, as the battery will cool down to ambient. Leaving the car in the sun at 90F in a parking lot with 110F asphalt for many hours EVERY day... completely different animal.

DC charging at 100F plus temps to high SOC%, just crazy with what we know now.

Randy said:

My dislike for the new standard is that I (and many of my LEAF owner friends in the US) bought the car based on the Chademo DC FC system that it supports, back when there was no Frankenplug standard in the works, and we thought that was the way to go AND WE BOUGHT INTO IT.

Click to expand...

My Leaf will be long gone before I have an opportunity or need to use a DC charger. I assumed the CHAdeMO charger would never be used but I wanted the backup camera. Expensive but worth it to me. I also assumed that Leafs with DC fast chargers might have lower resale because of the possible loss of capacity due to DC charging. No sign of this yet but it's still possible. All in all no hard feelings on my part. I'm more irritated about the new connector on the iPhone 5.

Then again I still think DC charging is a solution in search of a problem. The Leaf isn't suitable for 99% of the population as the only vehicle, which means that 99% of households which have a Leaf will also have a second (or third) vehicle. If you can't make the trip on a single charge take a different vehicle.