SAE Officially Approves New Fast-Charging Combo

[DaveinOlyWA]

very nice specs. be interesting to see a station in action. as for chademo going away?? well we have just under 20 chademo chargers in WA ( i should know the exact # but they are kinda starting to pop up all over...) with announcements for another half dozen plus random pix of stations that were either not announced or announced so long ago we had kinda forgot about them (i am sure the local residents of the new station would dispute that last statement...)

i for one had heard about Blink (unfortunately) putting a DCFC in the Oly area last year (we already have two from two different vendors) and that location would be only a few miles from my home (if its placed where originally proposed and that has NOT been the case) but had forgotten about it (it was like 16 months ago!!) so will this announcement change any of that??

will it change the smile on my face?? i guess we shall see

 

[LEAFfan]

Then again I still think DC charging is a solution in search of a problem. The Leaf isn't suitable for 99% of the population as the only vehicle, which means that 99% of households which have a Leaf will also have a second (or third) vehicle. If you can't make the trip on a single charge take a different vehicle.

Sorry, but I'm not believing your "99%". There are more people than you know that use the QC for lots of trips and there will also be more taking longer trips when more QCs are available. Your last sentence is not speaking for a lot of others, so just let it speak for you.

 

[redLEAF]

A follow up story today on AutoWeek, apparently the 'first' EV that may appear in the U.S. unless possibly the BMW 'i''s beats it will be the Chevy Spark EV:

"Next year, GM will introduce the Spark EV that will feature the fast-charging system."

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20121016/carnews/121019884#ixzz29UqBh6NH

The interesting thing here is all those jumping on the bandwagon in the follow up comments section (assume non-EV owners), even one comment on the fact that all current EV 'early adopters' will be SOL because this new standard will cover the countryside ignoring the simple fact that current chargers (both in public as well as in people's garages) all use the 'older' design --- I don't use facebook so anyone here might want to set the record straight but then again get a flaming war started --- the photo of the Volt suspiciously looks like the same one we use (charger 'nozzle' is partially covered by the charge port door) but perhaps it's the 'new' one.

 

[tailgate1234]

SAE approves new charging connector standard combining Level 2 and DC fast charge. Our LEAF fast charging ports, and maybe also all level2 home charging equipment public charging stations are now obsolete. Thanks GM, VW et al.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20121016/carnews/121019884" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan: for those of us that leased, will you have an upgrade path so that we don't give you our cars back when the leases are up?

 

[surfingslovak]

That's a valid point, but given the timing and the overall situation on the marketplace, I don't expect this to be a major problem. It looks like there will be quick chargers with both types of plugs (CHAdeMO and SAE), which might be the right thing to do in the transitionary period. I'm curious how this will pan out in the long term, and my guess is that Nissan will stay firmly behind CHAdeMO.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

The current L2 charge connector is unchanged. In fact, you can use all existing L2 J1772 infrastructure with this combo plug (hence the "combo" part)

 

[tailgate1234]

The current L2 charge connector is unchanged. In fact, you can use all existing L2 J1772 infrastructure with this combo plug (hence the "combo" part)

I sure hope so. I can live with the dc fast charge connector changing because there aren't too many quick charging stations out there yet.

 

[Electric4Me]

I'm more irritated about the new connector on the iPhone 5.

:lol: :lol: I'm with you there!

Then again I still think DC charging is a solution in search of a problem. The Leaf isn't suitable for 99% of the population as the only vehicle, which means that 99% of households which have a Leaf will also have a second (or third) vehicle. If you can't make the trip on a single charge take a different vehicle.

Clearly you haven't used it then. Once you've tried it, it's addicting! I don't use DCQC often, (and have once been screwed by an isolated one that was down) but it totally opens up what you can do in the Leaf.

And personally, I hate driving my ICE car if I don't have to.

 

[surfingslovak]

The current L2 charge connector is unchanged. In fact, you can use all existing L2 J1772 infrastructure with this combo plug (hence the "combo" part)

I sure hope so. I can live with the dc fast charge connector changing because there aren't too many quick charging stations out there yet.

The L2 connector is not going anywhere, it's an SAE standard. The standards war in regards to L3 quick charging likely won't affect Leaf owners much, if at all. With some luck there will be more CHAdeMO QC stations soon, and new equipment will accommodate both plug standards.

 

[grommet]

Just to make it clear:

The inlet on any car that was designed for this DC "combined" standard will accept the bigger DC capable plugs. But public L2 J1772, as well as your home J1772 L2, will never change... it's the "top" part of the combined plug. No worries.

FYI: GM has no plans for DC quick charging for the Volt Hybrid at this time, in case you are wondering. (Trip extending is already there, via the ICE.) Using a picture of a Volt charging in that article is, well, dumb.

Anyway, call me once there is a car on the road.

 

[Nubo]

I've stopped worrying about this. I've yet to use DCFC. I might use it some day but hardly a show-stopper. It seems to have a narrow window of utility for cars like LEAF. Still too cumbersome for truly long trips, and not needed for the local area. Really only seems useful for trips that are some small multiple of the car's autonomous range. Mostly between 1 and 2 times normal range.

Now, move up to a 84kWH pack like Model S, and then cross-country driving seems in reach.

ymmv, of course.

 

[camasleaf]

I might use it some day but hardly a show-stopper. It seems to have a narrow window of utility for cars like LEAF. Still too cumbersome for truly long trips, and not needed for the local area.

I have only used DCQC public charging for the last year. I refused/avoided L2 at 3.3kW even when it was free. IDCQC t has a great utility for a car like the LEAF. It brings the range of the car to 150-200 miles a day with only 2x20 minutes charging stops. I use one QC almost every weekend, and it allows me to start the day at 80% SOC, and do not worry if I have enough for the whole day. Priceless.

 

[adric22]

at the abysmal rate of charging infrastructure deployment in my area (especially DC quick chargers) I doubt this will even affect me for at least 10 years.

 

[DaveEV]

MOD NOTE: Merged "New SAE charge connector standard approved - thanks GM" thread here.

 

[SanDust]

Sorry, but I'm not believing your "99%". There are more people than you know that use the QC for lots of trips and there will also be more taking longer trips when more QCs are available.

The 99% number just follows from the demographics released by Nissan, unless you think high income households are only going to have one inexpensive car with a limited range.

Likewise the idea that people are or will use QCs when taking long trips in a Leaf defies everything we know about consumer behavior. How many times would you have to stop to go 300 miles? Seven? Eight? Nine? This is just not going to happen. In any event it's an academic question because there aren't any QCs to use.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am not seeing what you are seeing. Curious? How many people do you talk to in an average week who express any interest in electric vehicles?

 

[cwerdna]

Well, someone from the SAE decided to post this in the Electric Vehicle LinkedIn group:

It's finally here! SAE International’s much-anticipated technical standard for plug-in hybrid & electric vehicles has been approved and published!

“J1772™: SAE Electric Vehicle and Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle Conductive Charge Couple” enables charging time to be reduced from as long as eight hours to as short as 20 minutes!

along w/a link to http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/11484" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Although some of the members are extremely knowledgeable, it seems that some of respondents so far were unaware of CHAdeMO, its comparatively widespread deployment and Frankenplug supporter BEV/PHEV intentions.

You can view the post and thread there at https://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=147033&type=member&item=175657120&qid=fbbde2a5-9547-4cba-aef0-cbd118c09a2f&trk=group_most_recent_rich-0-b-ttl&goback=.gmr_147033.gde_147033_member_175657120.gmr_147033" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but you might need to be signed into LinkedIn.

 

[redLEAF]

Well, someone from the SAE decided to post this in the Electric Vehicle LinkedIn group:

It's finally here! SAE International’s much-anticipated technical standard for plug-in hybrid & electric vehicles has been approved and published!

“J1772™: SAE Electric Vehicle and Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle Conductive Charge Couple” enables charging time to be reduced from as long as eight hours to as short as 20 minutes!

along w/a link to http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/11484" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Although some of the members are extremely knowledgeable, it seems that some of respondents so far were unaware of CHAdeMO, its comparatively widespread deployment and Frankenplug supporter BEV/PHEV intentions.

You can view the post and thread there at https://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=147033&type=member&item=175657120&qid=fbbde2a5-9547-4cba-aef0-cbd118c09a2f&trk=group_most_recent_rich-0-b-ttl&goback=.gmr_147033.gde_147033_member_175657120.gmr_147033" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but you might need to be signed into LinkedIn.

Nope -- not only do you need to be logged in you also need to 'join' this group to see the discussion ..... with a little over 12K members you would think a few would at least be knowledgeable about what has been in place the last few years and what most current EV's being sold today are using

 

[jkirkebo]

Likewise the idea that people are or will use QCs when taking long trips in a Leaf defies everything we know about consumer behavior. How many times would you have to stop to go 300 miles? Seven? Eight? Nine? This is just not going to happen.

I do 180 miles in the Leaf about twice a month. It would not be possible without the QC stations. I also do a lot of 70-80 mile runs which would not be possible in the winter half of the year without turning off the heat and slowing down to 50mph. Or doing a 10 minute QC which is what I do.

For the last two months our Leaf has done >95% of our driving and the VW TDI <5%. Without QC the numbers would have been a lot closer to 50/50.

300 mile trips ? I'd usually take a plane or the train. But it happens maybe once a year anyway.

For the 180 mile trip I usually do 3 QC sessions: 25+15+30 minutes or so.

 

[defiancecp]

That's one of the questions that I'm *ALWAYS* asked when the uninitiated find out that I have an all electric vehicle- Are there charging stations? I start talking about how little I need them and the eyes glaze over. For the success of the electric vehicle, it really doesn't matter if people need them, it matters that they BELIEVE they need them.

And having said that, given that for many people the leaf works best in a two-vehicle household with either a gasoline or hybrid /PEV vehicle, charging infrastructure really could bridge the gap.

Right now I don't need quick charging. I have a leaf and an old subaru. 99% of my family drives could be covered by two leafs, but when the subaru needs replacing, it will probably be with a PEV, as current EV ranges (other than way-beyond-our-budget Teslas) are not sufficient to allow the occasional visit to either of our extended families. If we had charging infrastructure, our need for gasoline would be entirely eliminated.

So the statement that I "don't need" charging infrastructure, while technically true, is quite misleading.