SAE Officially Approves New Fast-Charging Combo

[DaveinOlyWA]

Likewise the idea that people are or will use QCs when taking long trips in a Leaf defies everything we know about consumer behavior. How many times would you have to stop to go 300 miles? Seven? Eight? Nine? This is just not going to happen.

I do 180 miles in the Leaf about twice a month. It would not be possible without the QC stations. I also do a lot of 70-80 mile runs which would not be possible in the winter half of the year without turning off the heat and slowing down to 50mph. Or doing a 10 minute QC which is what I do.

For the last two months our Leaf has done >95% of our driving and the VW TDI <5%. Without QC the numbers would have been a lot closer to 50/50.

300 mile trips ? I'd usually take a plane or the train. But it happens maybe once a year anyway.

For the 180 mile trip I usually do 3 QC sessions: 25+15+30 minutes or so.

+1, +2, +3!!

as far as 300 mile trips? only did 2 of those this year and drove the Prius for them.

 

[scottf200]

Likewise the idea that people are or will use QCs when taking long trips in a Leaf defies everything we know about consumer behavior. How many times would you have to stop to go 300 miles? Seven? Eight? Nine? This is just not going to happen.

I do 180 miles in the Leaf about twice a month. It would not be possible without the QC stations. I also do a lot of 70-80 mile runs which would not be possible in the winter half of the year without turning off the heat and slowing down to 50mph. Or doing a 10 minute QC which is what I do....For the 180 mile trip I usually do 3 QC sessions: 25+15+30 minutes or so.

Imagine what the masses would think of it if they had to go to a gas station each day in the winter so they could use their heater or drive above 50 mph [on a highway]. It just seems like this would turn the masses off in a big way. The TN plant can produce 150K / year as I recall ... that is my defn of the masses purchasing.

 

[Electric4Me]

Imagine what the masses would think of it if they had to go to a gas station each day in the winter so they could use their heater or drive above 50 mph [on a highway]. It just seems like this would turn the masses off in a big way.

Like everything, it depends. If they had to do this ~once per week, and they saved thousands of dollars per year on fuel and maintenance, then they just might adapt. The "convenience" of an ICE has its price...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Imagine what the masses would think of it if they had to go to a gas station each day in the winter so they could use their heater or drive above 50 mph [on a highway]. It just seems like this would turn the masses off in a big way. The TN plant can produce 150K / year as I recall ... that is my defn of the masses purchasing.

are you talking about the commuters who travel beyond the LEAFs range daily? because they be referred to as "masses" but definitely not "massive"

as you are fully aware; you may replace your implied LEAF with several different cars and replace the implied daily refueling with a number of things and you will soon find out that there is no "one" vehicle for the masses.

the most popular car in the world is rejected by 11 of every 12 buyers.
THAT is how mainstream it is. lets face it, the automotive industry is a eclectic collection of niche products serving statistically small pockets of very specific needs.

even if we break down into "types" of cars, only pickups have any resembling a significant % of the market but how many of those are purchased for business need? or more commonly purchased for personal need but thru a business? take out that number and trucks fall into the minor minority of purchases.

other than that Scott; we get that you have a Volt and you like it and that is great. the Volt is a great car but its greatness does not mean it fills the needs of the "masses"...nope, not even close. just another minor minority is all, just like the LEAF

 

[EVDrive]

Then again I still think DC charging is a solution in search of a problem. The Leaf isn't suitable for 99% of the population as the only vehicle, which means that 99% of households which have a Leaf will also have a second (or third) vehicle. If you can't make the trip on a single charge take a different vehicle.

Sorry, but I'm not believing your "99%". There are more people than you know that use the QC for lots of trips and there will also be more taking longer trips when more QCs are available. Your last sentence is not speaking for a lot of others, so just let it speak for you.

+1, Sandust was definately speaking for himself, and the less determined among our Leaf base. QCing to go longer trips like 200 miles is definitely a goal of mine. I already do 110 mile freeway trips with one QC stop. For those of us with little kids, stopping every hour for a half hour is par for the course. And for those of us committed to getting off gas, stopping often to quick charge is a will do until affordable longer range EV's arrive.

 

[scottf200]

other than that Scott; we get that you have a Volt and you like it and that is great. the Volt is a great car but its greatness does not mean it fills the needs of the "masses"...nope, not even close. just another minor minority is all, just like the LEAF

I wasn't interjecting the Volt into the conversation. It has it's limitations. I think practicality and convenience (p&c) is the name of the game to the masses (100+K per year for many years). We have to deal with human nature here and that is tough to fight. If I had to pick one overall related to the p&c I'd go with a Tesla Model X (performance, distance, passenger size, etc but the cost is the downside obviously). Sorry for the OT. I just don't think the masses want_to/will fill up daily unless it is overnight.

 

[EVDrive]

Dc quick charging is pretty convenient and more of a weekend road trip thing for most people. Most people wont be doing this everyday, rather 3-4 times over the weekend on a longer trip or 2. The l2 that takes 8 hours to charge makes 150 mile roadtrips a deal breaker on the weekends.

other than that Scott; we get that you have a Volt and you like it and that is great. the Volt is a great car but its greatness does not mean it fills the needs of the "masses"...nope, not even close. just another minor minority is all, just like the LEAF

I wasn't interjecting the Volt into the conversation. It has it's limitations. I think practicality and convenience (p&c) is the name of the game to the masses (100+K per year for many years). We have to deal with human nature here and that is tough to fight. If I had to pick one overall related to the p&c I'd go with a Tesla Model X (performance, distance, passenger size, etc but the cost is the downside obviously). Sorry for the OT. I just don't think the masses want_to/will fill up daily unless it is overnight.

 

[EVDrive]

I wonder how much it would cost to make an adapter for converting the SAE quick charger to make it work on the Leaf?

I saw a Tesla S adapter today for converting from l2 to their standard and it was so tiny. I couldn't even see it was there.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

other than that Scott; we get that you have a Volt and you like it and that is great. the Volt is a great car but its greatness does not mean it fills the needs of the "masses"...nope, not even close. just another minor minority is all, just like the LEAF

I wasn't interjecting the Volt into the conversation. It has it's limitations. I think practicality and convenience (p&c) is the name of the game to the masses (100+K per year for many years). We have to deal with human nature here and that is tough to fight. If I had to pick one overall related to the p&c I'd go with a Tesla Model X (performance, distance, passenger size, etc but the cost is the downside obviously). Sorry for the OT. I just don't think the masses want_to/will fill up daily unless it is overnight.

no Scott; hear me when I say that there is no such thing as mainstream in the automotive industry. one could very loosely define maybe 4-5 categories of requirements but the ONLY thing that even comes close to requirements is price.

its not comfort because I know a very large minor minority that will forego that comfort in a second for $4,000 but there are just as many who wont.

what we really have is "weighted need" and convenience in a car is having back seat doors so car seats are easier to access. has nothing to do with refueling. ask any potential car buyer. what most fail to realize is just how inconvenient gas is to get. its a necessary evil, we ALL hate it, but do it anyway and our brains comply with wandering as much as possible while do it trying to pretend we are somewhere else. as soon as we leave the gas station, our subconscious kicks into overdrive to pretend it didnt even happen!

so our long term impressions on getting gas is relatively neutral and very inaccurate.

so anyway, the "charge at home" scenario covers 338 days (for most it would be MUCH more, but with the LEAF, new QC's etc, had to push it "range envelop") so the only real inconvenience introduced would be those 27 days that the LEAF required a juice up away from the barn (keep in mind, 24 of those times happened within the last 3 months coinciding with the DCFC network opening in my area) OR simply take the OTHER car.

Convenience of the OTHER car; getting gas 27 times a year (the #'s are purely coincidental i swear!!) somewhere i was supposed to post the pump speed results. many thought it was 5-10 GPM and they were right. i clocked 6.2 GPM. i was surprised it was that high and the pump did seem to be a bit more spiritedly than normal and the Prius declined to do the "early shutoff" thing that occasionally happens and so on. although it was 4:30 in the afternoon and rush hour was definitely on, it was just before the big jam up and i was able to pull up to an available pump right away so no waiting but still took me 11 minutes due to having to get out of traffic, into the station and back out again. in retrospect, i probably could take 90 seconds off each end since the gas station is in a shopping complex instead of sitting on the corner and the 90 extra seconds is the time to negotiate thru despite me just pulling around thru the back which saves me at least a minute or two. but either way

even at 11 minutes that is still nearly 5 hours a year (in reality it is MUCH higher) for the 27 trips my Prius had to make to get gas. we wont talk about the money since that is simply inherent to the vehicle and the subsequent price you choose to pay. for some reason, many dont see this as much of a factor as paying 200-300% more for fuel

 

[davewill]

I wonder how much it would cost to make an adapter for converting the SAE quick charger to make it work on the Leaf?

I saw a Tesla S adapter today for converting from l2 to their standard and it was so tiny. I couldn't even see it was there.

Some of the parts are pretty expensive. The CHAdeMO plug, for one. Also, it has to be an active adapter translating SAE to CHAdeMO and back as it goes, so it needs power. If I were serious about this, I'd build the adapter into the car and replace the LEAF's existing J1772 inlet with the new combo inlet and hardwire to the CHAdeMO wiring. That makes it nice and neat, eliminates the cord and expensive CHAdeMO plug, and makes it easier to power the adapter, since it could simply connect to the LEAF's 12v bus. Of course, that means it now needs "installation" which isn't free.

 

[rumpole]

Does anyone know if the SAE Combo standard is bidirectional? I was reading about the Leaf-to-Home system being sold by Nissan in Japan, in which one can power circuits in the house from the Leaf. What makes it possible is that Chademo is bidirectional. If the SAE Combo standard was also bidirectional, there could in principle be a similar product in the future on the SAE standard. :?:

 

[grommet]

Yes... like CHAdeMO, the J1772 combo standard connector may be used for vehicle-to-home/grid solutions. See SAE J2836, J2847 for reference.

 

[TonyWilliams]

No Frankenplug, even though ABB has already built one (maybe the only one on the planet):

"Implementation of electric car fast charging took a step forward with Tuesday's announcement by ABB of the Terra Smart Connect Duo, the first 22 kW AC & DC fast charging station, supporting a 30-120 minute recharge time for compatible electric cars. The new station supports the CHADEMO standard available on the Nissan Leaf, Nissan E-NV200, Mitsubishi Outlander, Mitsubishi i-MiEV, Citroen Berlingo and Peugeot Partner, as well as a new AC standard supported by the Renault ZOE and the newest Smart fortwo Electric Drive. While ABB has announced support of the new SAE DC Fast Charging station, support for that standard is not part of the Terra Smart Connect Duo."

"ABB's new charging station is a step towards harmony in fast charging protocols, demonstrating that the fast charging standards battle can be fought among automakers without hurting the consumers who buy electric cars. By implementing both the three phase AC and CHADEMO systems it demonstrates that fast charging stations can support multiple charging standards. ABB has also shown a functional prototype of the SAE DC Fast Charging system, and presumably will incorporate that standard into the Terra Smart Connect line when the time is ripe."

 

[hill]

No Frankenplg, even though ABB has already built one (maybe the only one on the planet):

"Implementation of electric car fast charging took a step forward with Tuesday's announcement by ABB of the Terra Smart Connect Duo, the first 22 kW AC & DC fast charging station, supporting a 30-120 minute recharge time for compatible electric cars. . . . . . . . .

Here's why that's funny:
1) over 3,000 Chademo Q.C.'s world wide ... yet THIS one ... and only one ... is a "step forward".
2) compatible cars ... what ... all Zero of them ... unless you count one of the 2 or 3 bmw concept vehicles just happening through that part of the country.

I don't know if that's a step forward ... or maybe a "thinking whether or not to lean" forward.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

No Frankenplg, even though ABB has already built one (maybe the only one on the planet):

"Implementation of electric car fast charging took a step forward with Tuesday's announcement by ABB of the Terra Smart Connect Duo, the first 22 kW AC & DC fast charging station, supporting a 30-120 minute recharge time for compatible electric cars. . . . . . . . .

Here's why that's funny:
1) over 3,000 Chademo Q.C.'s world wide ... yet THIS one ... and only one ... is a "step forward".
2) compatible cars ... what ... all Zero of them ... unless you count one of the 2 or 3 bmw concept vehicles just happening through that part of the country.

I don't know if that's a step forward ... or maybe a "thinking whether or not to lean" forward.

:lol: