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"But lets be real. the Kia not being better than the LEAF would qualify as the stupidest marketing move ever. "

That's been done (poor strategic marketing) many times, e.g. just this week - the Amazon phone "written-off".
With regard to the Kia being better than the Leaf over time, we'll wait and see.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Great report Tony as always. What is max tire pressure listing? Since I would run at that and should get me an extra 3-5 miles of range. But lets be real. the Kia not being better than the LEAF would qualify as the stupidest marketing move ever.
Click to expand...

So, you mean like the VW eGolf then, eh?

I didn't look at the tires for max pressure, but 33 is pretty low. I'd guess you're good to 42-44psi.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
hopefully by then, the Soul will have fixed its error by realizing the market for EV in WA so at least i can think I have options
Click to expand...

Work to make Washington state a ZEV state, and not just CARB compliant, and Kia will absolutely bring the car to your state. I guarantee it.
 
TonyWilliams said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Great report Tony as always. What is max tire pressure listing? Since I would run at that and should get me an extra 3-5 miles of range. But lets be real. the Kia not being better than the LEAF would qualify as the stupidest marketing move ever.
Click to expand...

So, you mean like the VW eGolf then, eh?

I didn't look at the tires for max pressure, but 33 is pretty low. I'd guess you're good to 42-44psi.
Click to expand...

not sure I could the eGolf is a direct competitor to the LEAF. eGolf is more a commuter only car like the MiEV. The Soul is a family oriented 5 seat EV in the upper middle price range and a direct competitor to the LEAF and FFEV. this is where the true battles will be and the real challenge for marketing of finding the sweet spot between range and pricing.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
TonyWilliams said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Great report Tony as always. What is max tire pressure listing? Since I would run at that and should get me an extra 3-5 miles of range. But lets be real. the Kia not being better than the LEAF would qualify as the stupidest marketing move ever.
Click to expand...

So, you mean like the VW eGolf then, eh?

I didn't look at the tires for max pressure, but 33 is pretty low. I'd guess you're good to 42-44psi.
Click to expand...

not sure I could the eGolf is a direct competitor to the LEAF. eGolf is more a commuter only car like the MiEV. The Soul is a family oriented 5 seat EV in the upper middle price range and a direct competitor to the LEAF and FFEV. this is where the true battles will be and the real challenge for marketing of finding the sweet spot between range and pricing.
Click to expand...
Huh? Of course the e-Golf is a direct competitor to the LEAF, one that gives up some space for better performance and handling, while having about the same price (comparably-equipped) and EPA range as a LEAF. Since the average number of people per trip in the U.S. is only 1.6 (1.25 or so during commute hours, unless HOV lanes are present) and family size has shrunk considerably with the single largest demographic group now being single-person households, the LEAF's somewhat better ability to carry five people is of limited importance to many.

If you want performance, handling and 'feel' and don't need to call attention to yourself, go for the e-Golf (or the Spark if you can't afford the e-Golf, where available) . If you want to haul a max load of pax regularly and want to let everyone know you're driving something different, get a LEAF. And if you want max. range and good hauling capability plus 'utilitarian but still stands out from the crowd' looks, the Soul is your best choice.
 
"If you want performance, handling and 'feel' and don't need to call attention to yourself, go for the e-GolfVisit the e-Golf Forum (or the Spark if you can't afford the e-GolfVisit the e-Golf Forum, where available) . If you want to haul a max load of pax regularly and want to let everyone know you're driving something different, get a LEAF. And if you want max. range and good hauling capability plus 'utilitarian but still stands out from the crowd' looks, the SoulVisit the Soul Forum is your best choice."

With regard to the Leaf's handling with its front strut suspension, it handles well even when compared
to my Mini Turbo or my Porsche 911. It would do well on a slalom track given its minimal roll/body sway
and good acceleration. I don't 'see' the Kia Soul handling well compared to the Leaf given its additional
height and position of the driver (sits higher than in the Leaf).
 
The LEAF does not handle poorly, but I realize how much better it could be when I drive my wife's Acura TSX. I have noticed that the LEAF models with the 17" wheels and lower profile tires feel a little more spirited.

I'm hoping that by the time my lease expires in 2017 that I can buy an EV with not only more range, but with a more spirited driving experience (mostly handling)--something that offers the fun of something like a Civic Si. I do believe that is the advantage the VW will have over the Nissan product. As crappy as VW quality has been, they are fun to drive.
 
Most car magazines have the Leaf cornering at about .78 G with moderate understeer. Mediocre at best... Again, better tires would certainly help.

asimba2 said:
The LEAF does not handle poorly, but I realize how much better it could be when I drive my wife's Acura TSX.
Click to expand...
 
"I have noticed that the LEAF models with the 17" wheels and lower profile tires feel a little more spirited."

Yes, that's my mine.
 
ILETRIC said:
Though it leaves me wondering...instead of a guessing game, why isn't battery size/usable information readily available like it was with the Leaf?
Click to expand...
Heh. It was a guessing game for the LEAF. It got pretty entertaining there for a while. It started before the first LEAF was delivered, and went on for another 6 months. I'm not sure how you missed it. I'm not sure how we finally managed to settle it.
 
It was settled before I got my Leaf 6 months later than expected. That is why I always knew the 24/21 ratio. What I didn't now was that the 100-mile claim was so bogus. Well, EPA now straightens that out quite effectively.
 
cwstnsko said:
edatoakrun said:
...IMO, the first real (non-compliance BEV) competition for the first gen LEAF....
Click to expand...

At a minimum the Kia Soul EV would have to be offered in the Atlanta and Seattle markets before I would consider it anything but a compliance EV. No EV that was being marketed for profit would withhold product from the #1 & #3 markets of their largest, most successful competitor (the Leaf). ..
Click to expand...

If the Soul was intended to be a compliance car, Kia could have done what Ford, GM, Fiat/Chrysler did, and build mediocre BEV conversions, just good enough to sell in low numbers, and accept a loss on each sale.

The fact that KIA is has at least one significant advantage over the LEAF-~10% greater range-and is actually undercutting Nissan LEAF prices in another major BEV market, suggests it could do so here as well, but has priced it higher than the LEAF to maximize profit:

Kia Soul EV scored a good result in Norway last month as 105 units were registered.

Comparing this to the 216 overall Soul registrations in Norway, we see the EV version had nearly 49% share.

The Soul EV was also one of the best selling automobiles in Norway among EVs, which is not strange as its base price is more than 11% lower than the Nissan LEAF and more than 20% less than the Volkswagen e-Golf...
Click to expand...

http://insideevs.com/half-of-kia-soul-registered-last-month-in-norway-were-evs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
We've gone to the Soul EV side and after a few hundred miles, we're glad we have.

First off, we really liked our Leaf and we seriously considered leasing a 2015 but after looking at the Soul EV Plus, we leased it instead. It's clear that Kia did its research and created a car to compete directly against the Leaf. We had the Leaf SL so we're comparing top-of-the-line to top-of-the-line.

What do we like about the Soul compared to the '12 Leaf (no particular order and not comprehensive - just off the top of my head)?

Range is better
Mileage gauge is more accurate
Automatic folding mirrors
B mode (regenerative braking)
Heated and cooled seats (front)
Heated seats (rear)
Navigation is better
Bluetooth quality is better
HD Radio included along with XM and Pandora
Adjustable steering response (normal, comfort, sport)
Leather seating (not an option in '12 for the Leaf)
6.6 charging (again for the '12, 3.3)
Chademo is standard
Cruise control, actually all steering controls, are better quality
Steering wheel has blue stitching
Nicer feel to the radio controls on computer interface
Better power train warranty (if we decide to buy it at the end of the lease)
Because of the earlier EV infrastructure limitations, we put a mere 14k over three years on the Leaf (not the Leaf's fault certainly)
Lease is less expensive (to be fair, we were early Leaf adopters and ordered ours from the factory and paid full bore - never again!)

How about the Leaf?

The Leaf is definitely faster
We liked that the Leaf looked unusual; the Soul looks like every other hamster Soul out there
The Leaf wheels are nicer (not fans of the Soul EV wheels)
We prefer the Cayenne Red color (Soul EV comes in white, blue and black)
Navigation updates appear to be over the air(?) - the Soul EV needs an updated SIM
 
Well covered, Jagular. I'm hoping Nissan is already looking over its shoulder what happened to its 9th inning. (Go Giants!)

My kid meanwhile completely took over our Soul and wants no part of his 2008 ICE SUV. Maybe it's the free juice, (no begging for gas $$) or to impress the ladies. Most likely both.

Either way... That car is just gone. All day. I only get to see it charging at night at 1 a.m. Wife is now relegated to our Spark EV. :)
 
Jagular said:
We've gone to the Soul EV side and after a few hundred miles, we're glad we have.

First off, we really liked our Leaf and we seriously considered leasing a 2015 but after looking at the Soul EV Plus, we leased it instead. It's clear that Kia did its research and created a car to compete directly against the Leaf. We had the Leaf SL so we're comparing top-of-the-line to top-of-the-line.

What do we like about the Soul compared to the '12 Leaf (no particular order and not comprehensive - just off the top of my head)?

Range is better
Mileage gauge is more accurate
Automatic folding mirrors
B mode (regenerative braking)
Heated and cooled seats (front)
Heated seats (rear)
Navigation is better
Bluetooth quality is better
HD Radio included along with XM and Pandora
Adjustable steering response (normal, comfort, sport)
Leather seating (not an option in '12 for the Leaf)
6.6 charging (again for the '12, 3.3)
Chademo is standard
Cruise control, actually all steering controls, are better quality
Steering wheel has blue stitching
Nicer feel to the radio controls on computer interface
Better power train warranty (if we decide to buy it at the end of the lease)
Because of the earlier EV infrastructure limitations, we put a mere 14k over three years on the Leaf (not the Leaf's fault certainly)
Lease is less expensive (to be fair, we were early Leaf adopters and ordered ours from the factory and paid full bore - never again!)

How about the Leaf?

The Leaf is definitely faster
We liked that the Leaf looked unusual; the Soul looks like every other hamster Soul out there
The Leaf wheels are nicer (not fans of the Soul EV wheels)
We prefer the Cayenne Red color (Soul EV comes in white, blue and black)
Navigation updates appear to be over the air(?) - the Soul EV needs an updated SIM
Click to expand...

Many of the features mentioned are on the 2015 Leaf, so it's not really a fair comparison to use the 2011
Leaf for comparison. Again, Kia has had over three years to reverse engineer the 2011 Leaf and 'play
catchup' providing a moderately improved Gen 1 BEV.
 
You want to surprise the competition. Now they have to catch up, and fast. It shows that this is not a compliance offering. We benefit.

Before you know it Soul EV will be in all 50 states. The only problem with the car is finding a fitting nickname (Sparky, Leafy). I'll take suggestions. :D
 
A neighbor has a 2013 Leaf SL. Had actually. He traded it in on the Soul EV Plus and says he could not be happier... They also given him a silly-high trade-in value in my opinion...
 

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