Would like to buy, but need some help please :|

[markpp]

Hello!

I spent last 3 days researching, reading blog and forum posts, watching YT videos..., but am still pretty confused about some things. Hopefully some nice people here could help me.

#1: Charging and range

I only have 120V "normal" outlet available in my garage (apartment). After reading some posts here I understand many people charge that way. But most of them drive (much) less than 50 miles a day.

I normally do around 50-60 miles (sometimes less, sometimes it's 70-75) and most of it is on 405/5 FWY between Irvine and San Clemente, CA. It's not every day, but still... I'm Ok with driving 40-45mph city, but I need at least 60 on the freeway. Leaving at 8:30-9:30am and I'm usually back before 4pm - so plenty of time to get at least 80% (assuming 1hr=5 miles). And I don't work every day so I can get it to 100% at least twice a week.

I have no idea how much does electricity cost and how much is the diff between day and night - so I guess that would be my 1st question (Portola Hills, CA -- Orange County): how much does it cost to charge from (mostly) zero to (at least) 80%? My car does 25 miles per gallon so my avg day is around $7-9.

And second question: will I be able to do 60 miles with 80%?


#2: S, SL, SV... I'm confused!

I don't know much about cars - let alone EVs. So I still have no idea what's the difference between S, SL etc is. However - I'm assuming that with my limitation to basic outlets (and no super-quick charging stations anywhere near me) the base model is all I need - am I right? The rear camera thingy would be great, but I don't think I can get it w/o paying over $1000 for the whole 240V package?


#3: How much should I pay

Well the obvious question... I'd like to lease for 24 months (12k should be enough). I went to CarWoo and the best (clear) offer I've got so far is:

For a new 2013 Leaf SV with the new 6.6KW on board charger, our lease payment, based on top tier credit, would be $1000 down + Tax, License, and first payment for 24 months would be $206 per month + tax. This is for 12,000 miles per year with an MSRP of $32,985.

Yes it's for SV with some 6.6KW thing, but I don't think my credit is "top tier", so I guess it'll be the same for the base model. But it would be super-cool if I could get $2k down including fees and taxes and then around $150/mo. Is it doable?

I know about the $2500 CA offer, but with $277/mo (same source as previous quote) I'll end up paying at least $3000 more so that's not really that great. And I don't want to keep the car longer than 2 years...

Also this will be my 1st lease - not really sure how it works. I mean I know the basic stuff, but is there anything I should watch for? Don't want to end up with $500/mo payments like that poor guy in another post... Is lease easier to get than financing?




OK, I guess that's all I need to know for now. Hopefully someone will be able to help me a little.
Thank you all for your time.

 

[cwerdna]

Re: #2, the Specs "tab" under http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/channels/us-united-states-nissan-models-leaf/presskits/us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; should help as should the slides at http://sfbayleafs.org/news/2013/01/2013-nissan-leaf-product-highlights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Click on any slide for a larger view.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; should help re: range.

In CA, I would not lease for only 2 years, as that makes you ineligible for the $2500 CVRP (http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/cvrp-eligible-vehicles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/frequently-asked-questions-cvrp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. It needs to be a 3 year lease, at min.

 

[Boomer23]

#1: You're pushing it on range. Yes you can make 60 miles on 80% charge, but as the battery ages, itll lose some capacit and you're gonna be on "fumes" at the end of that. You'll need to be comfortable driving beyond the car's low charge warnings, which sound when you get down to about 10 miles left. You're going to want that 6.6 thingy because you will want to use some public charging, and the standard 3.3 charger is SLOW. Also, you will probably want the Quick Charger option because there is already a public Quick charger in San Juan, on your route. Also, some Nissan dealers will be installing free QC stations soon.

 

[BEVeedom]

Level I Charging - 120 volts - 1.4KW - It takes 21 hours to fully recharge the depleted battery
Level II Charging - 240 volts - 3.3KW - 7 hours to do the same as above
New 2013 Level II Charging - 240 volts - 6.6KW - 3.5 hours to do the same as above

Those are your choices, what can you live with?

I can drive 70 miles in below freezing weather with careful driving in eco mode, cycling heat on & off, using heated wheel and seats. I have come home more than a couple of times with 3 - 6 miles of range remaining.

The new 2013 Level II charging option is the best bet right now, I believe.

I pay 13.5 cents per Kilowatt Hour (kWh) in my area. 33.7 kWh = 1 gallon of gasoline. The Leaf Battery holds 24 kWh of energy. Your electric clothes dryer uses about 6.5KW full on. Your electric water heater uses 4.5KW when on. The Leaf motor can use up to 80KW! Play with the math, compare to gasoline. Kilowatts used X no. of hours X utility rate = utility cost.

The bottom line is that you will want a Level II charger at least at work if you can't install one where you live.

My rules - you must have a place to install a level II charger at home and you must have at least one gas car for long trips out of range. I hope apartment and townhome managers are listening. Until the Level III infrastructure arrives this is the way it is.

My advice to you - buy one of the new extended range PHEV vehicles, unless your willing to make sacrifices for your beliefs. In the PHEV world Level I is fine, Level II is great, your range is not a concern. Example - Chevy Volt can take you the furthest on electric - 40 miles. The Toyota PHEV will go about 15 miles on electric. Good luck.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
He says he doesn't work every day. If he drains his battery significantly on each roundtrip w/no charging at work, he will need enough downtime w/L1 charging to get him to a sufficient state of charge for the next trip. At 120 volt L1 charging, it might not be enough for 2 consecutive work days. He'll either need to charge somewhere (at work or on the way), take another car or charge via a faster method.

If the garage isn't secured and he's L1 charging, there's also the possibility the L1 EVSE (aka brick aka trickle charge cord set) could get stolen. It's at least $700 to replace.

There's also the issue of whether his 120 volt outlet is shared w/anything else and can handle the continuous load of charging (won't trip a breaker/pop a fuse or cause a fire). He needs to investigate that.

 

[garsh]

I only have 120V "normal" outlet available in my garage (apartment). After reading some posts here I understand many people charge that way. But most of them drive (much) less than 50 miles a day.

I normally do around 50-60 miles (sometimes less, sometimes it's 70-75) and most of it is on 405/5 FWY between Irvine and San Clemente, CA. It's not every day, but still... I'm Ok with driving 40-45mph city, but I need at least 60 on the freeway.

I have a 60-mile round-trip commute. During the summer, I can make that commute on an 80% charge if I stay around 55mph on the highway. But if you add rain, below-freezing temperatures, or faster speeds, you'll need to charge higher than 80%.

Using the air conditioner doesn't impact range too much, but you'll never be able to use the heater if you're cutting things close. I doubt you'll need to worry about that too much in CA. I've been able to get by with just the seat and steering wheel heaters even in temps well below freezing.

Leaving at 8:30-9:30am and I'm usually back before 4pm - so plenty of time to get at least 80% (assuming 1hr=5 miles). And I don't work every day so I can get it to 100% at least twice a week.

Would you have any opportunity to charge at work? Can you get access to a regular outlet? If so, then that's a great "safety net".

The "21 hours to recharge" is a worst-case scenario. You'll probably never be fully depleted. Even at the low-battery warning, you have almost 10 miles of range left, so that would be about 19 hours. Also, the last couple of hours are spent taking the battery from 95% charge to 100% - it's much harder to push those last few electrons onto an almost-fully-charged battery. So in the 16 hours that you have available to charge your car, I think you will be able to charge it well past 80%.

I think you could make it work, but you would need to be pretty dedicated about it. I assume this would be your only car? What if you need to make an extra trip one day? Gotta give that car time to charge. What if a circuit breaker trips during the night? Do you have a backup plan for getting to work or getting back home?

 

[planet4ever]

I normally do around 50-60 miles (sometimes less, sometimes it's 70-75) and most of it is on 405/5 FWY between Irvine and San Clemente, CA. It's not every day, but still... I'm Ok with driving 40-45mph city, but I need at least 60 on the freeway. Leaving at 8:30-9:30am and I'm usually back before 4pm - so plenty of time to get at least 80% (assuming 1hr=5 miles). And I don't work every day so I can get it to 100% at least twice a week.

You will not get 5 miles driving from one hour charging if you are driving 60 mph. At most you will get 4 miles per charging hour. When you say "don't work every day" and "get it to 100% at least twice a week" I assume you mean you work five days a week and don't plan to use the car much on weekends. Right? If you drive 300 miles between Monday morning and Friday night, you will need at least 75 hours charging during that period, and you only have four nights to do it. Guess what, that's 19 hours of charging every night. BZZZ! You're only home 17 hours.

If I'm wrong, and you mean you work less than five days a week, then, yes, it would be barely possible. But I certainly wouldn't recommend it. As BEVeedom suggested, you need some higher voltage charging somewhere.

Oh, I almost forgot. If you are driving 300 miles a week, that's 15K per year. You don't want a 12K lease.

Ray

 

[markpp]

Thank you guys