Will a Leaf work for my commute?

[roadster22]

Here's all my info; hopefully experienced Leaf owners will tell me if I would be a suitable member of the club!

My commute:
Morning: 18 miles/33 minutes (9 miles/24 minutes in stop-and-go; 9 miles/9 minutes at open highway speed)
Lunch: 10 miles/20 minutes (worst case)
Evening: 18 miles/45 minutes (10 miles/33 minutes stop-and-go; 8 miles/12 minutes @ 40 mph)
Total: 46 miles/1 hour 38 minutes; average 28 mph
Weekends: Maybe a few miles around town for errands. Definitely less than the M–F commute.

My locale:
Suburban Chicago area. Relatively flat terrain (my home and office differ in elevation by only 120 feet over 18 miles!)

Weather averages:
January 31 high / 16 low
February 36 high / 20 low
March 47 high / 29 low
April 59 high / 39 low
May 70 high / 48 low
June 80 high / 58 low
July 84 high / 64 low
August 82 high / 63 low
September 75 high / 54 low
October 62 high / 43 low
November 48 high / 32 low
December 35 high / 21 low

I have a old, uninsulated detached garage that would provide limited shelter for the vehicle. The garage has existing 100V/20 circuits that would support the trickle charger. My electrical panel is near capacity and the garage is fed by a buried underground cable, so adding a 220V/30A circuit to the garage would likely require a new panel and some trenching, which is probably a deal breaker.

I do have some CharePoint stations in town and near my employer. I work at a corporate office park and there are a few EVs here; I've seen a Tesla and a Leaf. It might be an option to ask the complex to install some charging stations, but I have no idea if/when that might happen. I don't see any 110V outlet in the garage for trickle charging.

Questions:
- Can you use the trickle charger as the only charger?
- If so, would it have enough time to recover from my commute each night? (The car is parked from 6pm to 7:45 am daily.)
- How much of a hit would the battery take in the winter?

My overall sense is that I am right on the edge. If I could charge at home and/or at work, or if the weather were a bit warmer, I'd be okay. But I think perhaps I'm pushing things just too far for comfort.

Thanks in advance for your experienced opinions!!

 

[ksnogas2112]

Total: 46 miles/1 hour 38 minutes; average 28 mph
Weekends: Maybe a few miles around town for errands. Definitely less than the M–F commute.

My locale:
Suburban Chicago area. Relatively flat terrain (my home and office differ in elevation by only 120 feet over 18 miles!)

Commute and weather - you're golden. You might consider an SV or SL with the heat pump for the milder winter days but you'll be using the resistance heater in the coldest days unless the heated seats and steering wheel work for you. If that's true then you will still want warm socks.



I have a old, uninsulated detached garage that would provide limited shelter for the vehicle. The garage has existing 100V/20 circuits that would support the trickle charger. My electrical panel is near capacity and the garage is fed by a buried underground cable, so adding a 220V/30A circuit to the garage would likely require a new panel and some trenching, which is probably a deal breaker.

Questions:
- Can you use the trickle charger as the only charger? - Yes

- If so, would it have enough time to recover from my commute each night? (The car is parked from 6pm to 7:45 am daily.) It would take all night during the summer and you might not get enough to cover it during the winter depending on heat use.

- How much of a hit would the battery take in the winter? You will see the battery temp drop from 6 in the summer to 4 in the winter. From Tony's chart:
Subtract 1% from range for each 4F/2C below 70F/20C
Temperature: Add 1% to range for each 8F/4C above 70F/20C

So 73 EPA miles and freezing temps = 73*16%= 12 miles reduced range, which is about what I saw in KC last winter.

My overall sense is that I am right on the edge. If I could charge at home and/or at work, or if the weather were a bit warmer, I'd be okay. But I think perhaps I'm pushing things just too far for comfort.

Thanks in advance for your experienced opinions!!

Overall I think you're good but for convenience and to not push the limit you would be best served by getting a 240 volt line run somewhere unless you're good with finding a place to charge at/near your office.

Let us know what you decide. I'm pretty sure we have some folks from Chicago on the forum that might provide better local insight.

 

[RonDawg]

You feel that a 30 amp EVSE might be too expensive to install, since it would require a 40 amp circuit, but would a 16 amp one (needing only a 20 amp circuit) work for you? It won't charge a 2013 Leaf with a 6.6 kW charger at its max speed, but even with a fully drained battery it would still only take 8 hours.

 

[redLEAF]

If you haven't already, be sure to read through the 'Chicagoland' thread here on this forum as everything you're asking would be specific to that region ... moderator may want to merge your new post over there.

In any case, this particular thread (simply a Google search that pointed back to MNL forum) shows about a 4.5 miles added at 120V connection so over about 13.5 hours you have available you might get 60.75 miles of range which would leave only about 14.75 miles of 'surplus' during each weekday which simply would not work well on the coldest days without access to a reliable supplemental charging somewhere.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2284

We've had our LEAF in the 'burbs NW of Chicago in a semi-heated garage for about 1 1/2 years with a L2 (240V) charger in the garage but daily commute is either 30 miles R/T or 7 miles R/T depending upon who drives it and do between 50 and about 80 miles on each day of the weekends (charge at 80% during the week and 100% on the weekends) and we've never been close but again L2 each night.

As far as storing outside in an unheated garage -- it's better than leaving it outside (amrginally, cust the wind chill) but we've had some relatively mild winters since we've owned our LEAF and it does have a battery heater so it doesn't freeze but that takes power as well when unplugged ... agree you're kind of on the border but it would be better with an L2 or at the very least a 2nd ICE car for the worst conditions and a 'just in case'.

 

[roadster22]

Thanks, all, for the fast and thoughtful replies.

I might be able to do the 16A charger. I think I may have misspoken when I said "circuits"; I think it probably only one circuit to the garage. From an actual load standpoint this should be fine, since I could have the Leaf charge overnight while there is no additional load on the circuit. However, it would likely be a violation of electrical code to run the charger, garage door, lighting, and convenience outlets all off a single 20A feed.

I do have a second car with an ICE, but that is a larger ride my wife with two kids use for their travels. It might be a good emergency option for the winter, but would basically force them to use the Leaf, which would be a tight squeeze for them and their gear.

 

[Klayfish]

I can't comment on the range part, I just got my LEAF 5 days ago...only have 100 miles on it so far. However, as for the kids and the gear. Take a look at the LEAF, it's bigger than you think. I just rearranged my garage so I could park it inside. It's now parked next to my wife's 2011 Kia Forte wagon/hatch. It appears to be just a few inches shorter, but is taller for sure. The hatch area is comparable with her car, maybe a bit bigger. We have 3 kids, and while I would never pretend the LEAF would be big enough for a routine family hauler, it would do OK in a pinch...short trips only obviously.

 

[lion]

Here's all my info; hopefully experienced Leaf owners will tell me if I would be a suitable member of the club!

My commute:
Morning: 18 miles/33 minutes (9 miles/24 minutes in stop-and-go; 9 miles/9 minutes at open highway speed)
Lunch: 10 miles/20 minutes (worst case)
Evening: 18 miles/45 minutes (10 miles/33 minutes stop-and-go; 8 miles/12 minutes @ 40 mph)
Total: 46 miles/1 hour 38 minutes; average 28 mph
Weekends: Maybe a few miles around town for errands. Definitely less than the M–F commute.

My locale:
Suburban Chicago area. Relatively flat terrain (my home and office differ in elevation by only 120 feet over 18 miles!)

Weather averages:
January 31 high / 16 low
February 36 high / 20 low
March 47 high / 29 low
April 59 high / 39 low
May 70 high / 48 low
June 80 high / 58 low
July 84 high / 64 low
August 82 high / 63 low
September 75 high / 54 low
October 62 high / 43 low
November 48 high / 32 low
December 35 high / 21 low

I have a old, uninsulated detached garage that would provide limited shelter for the vehicle. The garage has existing 100V/20 circuits that would support the trickle charger. My electrical panel is near capacity and the garage is fed by a buried underground cable, so adding a 220V/30A circuit to the garage would likely require a new panel and some trenching, which is probably a deal breaker.

I do have some CharePoint stations in town and near my employer. I work at a corporate office park and there are a few EVs here; I've seen a Tesla and a Leaf. It might be an option to ask the complex to install some charging stations, but I have no idea if/when that might happen. I don't see any 110V outlet in the garage for trickle charging.

Questions:
- Can you use the trickle charger as the only charger?
- If so, would it have enough time to recover from my commute each night? (The car is parked from 6pm to 7:45 am daily.)
- How much of a hit would the battery take in the winter?

My overall sense is that I am right on the edge. If I could charge at home and/or at work, or if the weather were a bit warmer, I'd be okay. But I think perhaps I'm pushing things just too far for comfort.

Thanks in advance for your experienced opinions!!

I have a similar commute (just more hills), and on days I go out to lunch, my numbers match yours as well, and I probably hit mid 20% or so by the time I get home. Now keep in mind that I only charge to 80%, and haven't experienced winter yet, but you do need to keep in mind that the battery will lose some of its capacity, which will eventually put you really close to the limit unless you start charging at 100%.

Personally, I'm not worried, as I will try to get an outlet installed at the office before that point in time (hoping I have a few years), but you really need to think worst case scenario.

 

[Reddy]

L1 charging is doable if driving less than about 50 mi summer, maybe 40 mi winter, but you need a good plug, dedicated circuit (or close to it), support the brick so you don't stress the plug, etc. In your situation, I would drop the lunch trip in the winter just to make sure because 36 mi at lower speed average speeds should be simple. Edit: I typically get 5.2 mi/kwh summer, 2.5 mi/kwh winter with heater blasting, so yes, your distance can be cut in half. I "can" get closer to 3.5-4 mi/kwh in winter if I go longer trips, but my commute is so short that I don't worry about it.

Given you location and the certainty of very cold temps, I would also get a L2 charging station or evseupgrade.com. Pre-warming with the L1 (1.2 KW) in the garage will probably be sufficient down to 20 F, but you'll probably really like pre-heating with L2 (3.3 - 6 KW). I think you will be pushing it in the winter, especially below 10 F, with only ~13 hr L1 charging. When it's really cold/snowy, it would be easier if you could switch to another vehicle one day a week (to allow the car to catchup charge for 15-20 hrs) or telecommute. Start the work week at 100% and you may only make it to 90% on day 2, 80% day 3, 70% day 4, and maybe not have enough miles by day 5. Just a few ideas. There may be other better ones, especially if you can L1 at work for a couple of hours.

I've posted several responses with links to previous discussions. Just search my name for more. Here's one to start with lots of links:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11506#p265550

 

[roadster22]

Wow! More great information! I'm in awe of how thorough and helpful these answers are!!

 

[lion]

I forgot to mention, I used the trickle charger the first 2 months, and the only time I ran into an issue is when I had an work emergency during the night, so I obviously didn't have enough to get back home. I asked a coworker to pick me up/drop me off at the local Chili's restaurant, so the car could charge there for a couple of hours. No problems otherwise.

I average 4.2 miles /kWh.

 

[planet4ever]

I think it probably only one circuit to the garage. From an actual load standpoint this should be fine, since I could have the Leaf charge overnight while there is no additional load on the circuit. However, it would likely be a violation of electrical code to run the charger, garage door, lighting, and convenience outlets all off a single 20A feed.

You can't do that. The 16A EVSEs we are talking about are 240v. Everything else is 120v. While it is theoretically possible to split off a 120v tap from a 240v circuit if it has both a neutral and a ground (in addition to two hots), that is definitely a violation, and besides, your existing circuit is 120v and I can almost guarantee it does not have four wires.

On the other hand, 16A 240v charging is three times as fast as 12A 120v charging, despite what the numbers might indicate. So you are talking about up to 7 hours to charge instead of up to 21. A second circuit to the garage is an investment I think you will really need. As for the EVSE itself, check out EVSE Upgrade, as Reddy suggested.

Ray