Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

[TomT]

I suspect that, when the new Volt on the new platform and with the new genset comes out, we may see a significant shift in sales since many of the sources of complaints about the Volt will then disappear...

 

[GRA]

In the meantime, people who find the Volt unacceptable have a couple of other PHEVs available nationally in the same price range to choose from, unlike the case with the LEAF (barring the un-advertised FFE). Which is why sub-$40k PHEV sales are far outpacing sub-$40k BEV sales. Once the LEAF has national competition, its sales will decline but BEV sales overall will probably increase.

 

[jhm614]

In the meantime, people who find the Volt unacceptable have a couple of other PHEVs available nationally in the same price range to choose from, unlike the case with the LEAF (barring the un-advertised FFE). Which is why sub-$40k PHEV sales are far outpacing sub-$40k BEV sales. Once the LEAF has national competition, its sales will decline but BEV sales overall will probably increase.

Remember you need to also mention the unadvertised iMiEV and the unadvertised Smart Car EV. I have seen both in Dallas. So the Leaf has 3 unadvertised (but nationally available) competitors.

J.

 

[Stoaty]

Once the LEAF has national competition, its sales will decline but BEV sales overall will probably increase.

I don't think the Leaf sales will decline. The pot will grow larger and Nissan will likely maintain a dominant position for some time, especially if they come out with their 150 mile BEV.

 

[RonDawg]

Listen, I am not saying the Volt is superior to the Leaf. The incremental changes are nothing to scoff at.
They add up over time.
And they don't seem to loose any range over time (at least so far).

And I never said the Leaf was overall superior to the Volt. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

What I am saying (to TomT specifically) is that Nissan would better serve its customers by using its time and resources to try to solve the premature degradation issues before adding small amounts of range.

Overall, bottom line, looks like Nissan is trying hard to lead in EVs.
GM acts reluctant, uncertain, uncommitted.

In terms of pure electric cars, I have to agree with this. GM could show it's more serious by offering the Spark EV in more markets.

 

[jhm614]

In terms of pure electric cars, I have to agree with this. GM could show it's more serious by offering the Spark EV in more markets.

I think the cost vs. sales prices is out of whack on the Spark and that's why GM hasn't moved the Spark into general release. Now, if they put the new LG batteries into the Spark, then maybe it will go national.

 

[jlv]

That, along some annoyances in the Volt I could not overcome, such as the fact that the interior of the Volt felt cramped (I'm 5'6" and never before have I felt like my head was close to the ceiling of a car).

Did you play with the seat height adjustment? It has about 4" of range, and might have been jacked up in the car you tried.

I actually did. I helped just a little, but I still felt close to the roof. I actually did 3 Volt test drives, with a different car each time; it was on the second drive that I found the height adjustment after mentioning it to the salesman.

(I did three rounds of test drives before settling on my Leaf; the first round was across many different types of cars; the second round consisted primarily of EV and Hybirds with a Jetta TDI through in for sport; the final round was just the Leaf and Volt back to back)

 

[evnow]

I suspect that, when the new Volt on the new platform and with the new genset comes out, we may see a significant shift in sales since many of the sources of complaints about the Volt will then disappear...

Still begs the question - why they are not putting the drivetrain in a compact SUV/Crossover. Afterall that is the market they do best in.

 

[Volt3939]

I actually did. I helped just a little, but I still felt close to the roof. I actually did 3 Volt test drives, with a different car each time; it was on the second drive that I found the height adjustment after mentioning it to the salesman.

(I did three rounds of test drives before settling on my Leaf; the first round was across many different types of cars; the second round consisted primarily of EV and Hybirds with a Jetta TDI through in for sport; the final round was just the Leaf and Volt back to back)

@5'10" I can still have a hand width above my head. I guess it's all in torso/leg proportion. It sounds to me like you need to move the seat forward, which also raises it. I keep it most of the way back, which is it's lowest point.

I once had a big tall (6'2") guy give me a Porsche 914 (non-running) because he was not able to fit in it. A friend of mine, who is actually a little taller has been driving that model for 30 years and loves it, has a half dozen or so now. Hmm, that reminds me, that guy still owes me a favor for that car...

 

[Volt3939]

I suspect that, when the new Volt on the new platform and with the new genset comes out, we may see a significant shift in sales since many of the sources of complaints about the Volt will then disappear...

Still begs the question - why they are not putting the drivetrain in a compact SUV/Crossover. Afterall that is the market they do best in.

Don't get me started. Back in '97, the sales peepoles told me that Gov't regulations would require them to be building hybrid trucks by 2000. Still waiting, and still using the '97 truck. VIA is building exactly what I want, a 40 mile EREV pickup, but it's not available to us peons yet...

 

[TomT]

It's a good question. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if they did a decent one.

I suspect that, when the new Volt on the new platform and with the new genset comes out, we may see a significant shift in sales since many of the sources of complaints about the Volt will then disappear...

Still begs the question - why they are not putting the drivetrain in a compact SUV/Crossover. Afterall that is the market they do best in.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I drove a new Volt eighty miles home from the dealer for some friends last year and I also found it cramped and awkward to enter and exit, with a low ceiling inside. The seat seemed hard and uncomfortable. I could certainly live with it if I had to (it would be a little like trying to fold myself into a friend's Miata) and the driving and handling were quite good. But it sure made driving my LEAF afterward feel spacious and comfortable by comparison.

The current Volt is kind of tough on tall people, especially older ones who are getting stiff with age. Perhaps a larger model would sell a bit better.

 

[GRA]

In the meantime, people who find the Volt unacceptable have a couple of other PHEVs available nationally in the same price range to choose from, unlike the case with the LEAF (barring the un-advertised FFE). Which is why sub-$40k PHEV sales are far outpacing sub-$40k BEV sales. Once the LEAF has national competition, its sales will decline but BEV sales overall will probably increase.

Remember you need to also mention the unadvertised iMiEV and the unadvertised Smart Car EV. I have seen both in Dallas. So the Leaf has 3 unadvertised (but nationally available) competitors.

J.

I don't consider them in the same class as the LEAF, as their range is much less. In the case of PHEVs that's less of an issue, as you can always drive on gas. People can buy a nationally available and advertised PHEV with the AER and other features they need from at least three different manufacturers, and that just isn't the case for the LEAF.

 

[GRA]

I suspect that, when the new Volt on the new platform and with the new genset comes out, we may see a significant shift in sales since many of the sources of complaints about the Volt will then disappear...

Still begs the question - why they are not putting the drivetrain in a compact SUV/Crossover. Afterall that is the market they do best in.

CUVs/SUVs have now overtaken sedans as the plurality of U.S. car sales. It beats the hell out of me why GM wasted time and money developing the ELR that no one was asking for, and didn't make the Voltec AWD CUV that lots of people have been asking for.

 

[RonDawg]

VIA is building exactly what I want, a 40 mile EREV pickup, but it's not available to us peons yet...

Just find a few hundred other similar-thinking people who would be willing to do a group buy :lol:

 

[dm33]

CUVs/SUVs have now overtaken sedans as the plurality of U.S. car sales. It beats the hell out of me why GM wasted time and money developing the ELR that no one was asking for, and didn't make the Voltec AWD CUV that lots of people have been asking for.

That's exactly my biggest issue w the ELR. Such a waste of time and effort that could have been applied to a car people would have been much more likely to want to buy. Shows how out of touch GM is today that they thought anyone would want the ELR and that they misunderstood the Model S so badly to think the ELR was in any way in the same class.

 

[rogersleaf]

CUVs/SUVs have now overtaken sedans as the plurality of U.S. car sales. It beats the hell out of me why GM wasted time and money developing the ELR that no one was asking for, and didn't make the Voltec AWD CUV that lots of people have been asking for.

That's exactly my biggest issue w the ELR. Such a waste of time and effort that could have been applied to a car people would have been much more likely to want to buy. Shows how out of touch GM is today that they thought anyone would want the ELR and that they misunderstood the Model S so badly to think the ELR was in any way in the same class.

Typical GM mentality...can't sell a Chevy at $45K so slap a Caddy badge on it and hope for the best. Personally I liked the Volt but just couldn't see myself buying one. I had several late model GM products that seemed plagued with quirky mechanical & electrical problems much too early in life so the though of buying an electric car from GM didn't invoke a warm & fuzzy feeling. The LEAF fits my current need in a far less complex package. I hope the Volt proves itself as an excellent car but thought it best to pass for now.

 

[TomT]

Actually, the Volt has proven to be incredibly reliable, even more so than the Leaf.

I had several late model GM products that seemed plagued with quirky mechanical & electrical problems much too early in life so the though of buying an electric car from GM didn't invoke a warm & fuzzy feeling. The LEAF fits my current need in a far less complex package. I hope the Volt proves itself as an excellent car but thought it best to pass for now.

 

[lorenfb]

Actually, the Volt has proven to be incredibly reliable, even more so than the Leaf.

I had several late model GM products that seemed plagued with quirky mechanical & electrical problems much too early in life so the though of buying an electric car from GM didn't invoke a warm & fuzzy feeling. The LEAF fits my current need in a far less complex package. I hope the Volt proves itself as an excellent car but thought it best to pass for now.

Really? Other than the Leaf's battery problem, what other data provides that belief?
Given the complexity of the drive-train of the Volt (planetary gear system with two motors,
the ICE, & three clutches), the Volt is inherently less reliable, i.e. as the number of elements
in any system increases its probability of failure increases. As a result of that increased mechanical
complexity, the electronics controller increases in complexity and potentially reduces reliability.

 

[davidcary]

You know the CUV issue is totally right. I probably would have bought a Volt if it was large enough for roadtrips with the family. I shopped the Volt - did think it was a little too cozy. Would have considered it more if it was more practical. I mean the only thing I can't do with the Leaf is roadtrip and taking a roadtrip in a Volt isn't particularly appealing (if possible with our usual luggage).

But if they put the drivetrain in one of their CUVs and got 32 miles AER - now we are talking. Electric 90% of the time locally and roadtrip capable. Unbelievable that they haven't done it yet.

Now I see why so many are upset about the ELR...