so do I
occ said:I wish Orange County is more progressive tho :roll: , and sooner rather than later.
occ said:I wish Orange County is more progressive tho :roll: , and sooner rather than later.
Economically, yes. But with a real-world range reported by some users to be around 85 miles, without using climate control, and allowing for the possibility of detours or other unanticipated traffic issues, a 15-mile buffer seems cutting it close IMO. Then as the pack ages and loses range, the buffer shrinks. Or if there's a problem with the charger(s) at work and they're not working for a few hours, the car would not have an adequate charge for the return trip. Level 2 takes 8 hours to charge from empty; maybe 5 1/2 hours from 30% SoC?evnow said:Ironically, it is that kind of commute that will make Leaf economically worthwhile.daniel said:I agree that a 70-mile commute each way would disincline me towards buying a Leaf.
evnow said:Ironically, it is that kind of commute that will make Leaf economically worthwhile.daniel said:I agree that a 70-mile commute each way would disincline me towards buying a Leaf.
Actually, a two-year-old Corolla would do better, financially, than ANY new car! The depreciation of a new car as it rolls off the lot means it's NEVER the most economical transportation over the life of the car, compared to a good used car.Herm said:evnow said:Ironically, it is that kind of commute that will make Leaf economically worthwhile.daniel said:I agree that a 70-mile commute each way would disincline me towards buying a Leaf.
You would save money on gas but the premature wear on the battery will hurt, how long do you think the battery will last with two nearly 100% cycles everyday?.. not very long. You would be better off with a 2 year old used Corolla.
if we follow the 65% rule from GM and LG then that would be a daily range of 48 miles for long term battery life... lots of people drive under this.
Herm said:You would save money on gas but the premature wear on the battery will hurt, how long do you think the battery will last with two nearly 100% cycles everyday?.. not very long.
The problem with this line of reasoning, Herm, is that the Volt is a hybrid and the LG Chem battery is tweaked to favor power over energy - and that's why hybrids need to keep discharge shallower for long life. A lithium battery designed for energy delivery - in other words for EV use - will provide it's full design life using the full 100% consumer allowance.Herm said:You would save money on gas but the premature wear on the battery will hurt, how long do you think the battery will last with two nearly 100% cycles everyday?.. not very long. You would be better off with a 2 year old used Corolla.
if we follow the 65% rule from GM and LG then that would be a daily range of 48 miles for long term battery life... lots of people drive under this.
AndyH said:The problem with this line of reasoning, Herm, is that the Volt is a hybrid and the LG Chem battery is tweaked to favor power over energy -
daniel said:Actually, a two-year-old Corolla would do better, financially, than ANY new car! The depreciation of a new car as it rolls off the lot means it's NEVER the most economical transportation over the life of the car, compared to a good used car.
Again - I do understand how the Volt works.Herm said:AndyH said:The problem with this line of reasoning, Herm, is that the Volt is a hybrid and the LG Chem battery is tweaked to favor power over energy -
Good point on the Sonata, but the Volt is part time BEV with a range extender and uses a battery biased for energy, not power.. and a similar chemistry as the Leaf so no need to bring in LiFePO4 into it.. just drain the gas out of a Volt and you will see its a BEV, it may complain about it but it will run fine for 40 miles. Its just curious that both companies are only using a 65% SOC. Hyundai engineers are boasting of a very long life for their battery pack.
Only against defects. There's no warranty against a faster-than-expected degradation of range. I share your optimism that the batteries will do better than some people fear. But Nissan is making no promises in that regard.evnow said:Nissan warrantees for 100K miles.
daniel said:Only against defects. There's no warranty against a faster-than-expected degradation of range. I share your optimism that the batteries will do better than some people fear. But Nissan is making no promises in that regard.evnow said:Nissan warrantees for 100K miles.
Lead foots won't make 70 miles regularly at highway speedsEVDRIVER said:I think the pack will do worse than people here think for high DOD and 100% charging. I think it will also age more than expected. Don;t forget those with lead foots and high temp regions. We shall see.
Indeed we shall. At this point it's anybody's guess. Obviously we on this board are all optimistic or we wouldn't have ordered/bought the car. For all my anger at Nissan, I expect the car to do very well.EVDRIVER said:daniel said:Only against defects. There's no warranty against a faster-than-expected degradation of range. I share your optimism that the batteries will do better than some people fear. But Nissan is making no promises in that regard.evnow said:Nissan warrantees for 100K miles.
I think the pack will do worse than people here think for high DOD and 100% charging. I think it will also age more than expected. Don;t forget those with lead foots and high temp regions. We shall see.
AndyH said:The Leaf battery has only one energy mode - charge depleting.
A traditional hybrid has one - charge sustaining.
The Volt has both charge depleting and charge sustaining.
Charge sustaining mode is full of hybrid power pulses into and out of the pack - high energy for short durations.
You have to also look at discharge C levels. Given that Volt has a bigger motor and substantially smaller battery, they discarge the battery at more than 10C (at high power demand). Leaf discharge is much lower. This holds good at any power demand too - Volt is alwys discharging at higher levels. That will have a marked effect on the battery.Herm said:I think the Volt and Leaf are not really that much different...
That's an interesting point.. hadn't thought of that.evnow said:You have to also look at discharge C levels. Given that Volt has a bigger motor and substantially smaller battery, they discarge the battery at more than 10C (at high power demand).Herm said:I think the Volt and Leaf are not really that much different...
DOD = Department of Defense?EVDRIVER said:I think the pack will do worse than people here think for high DOD and 100% charging.
Stoaty said:DOD = Department of Defense?
Happens a lot. In this case, I suspect the OP got his answer in the first few responses, and now has no need to follow up.mwalsh said:BTW, kinda odd when someone posts once (well twice) and then disappears.
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