Western USA drought worst in modern era

[AndyH]

Something for non-Californians to keep in mind, is that somewhere around 80% of water usage in the state is agricultural, and California provides a huge chunk of the food you eat, regardless of what state you are in. So drought in California isn't just about locals "wasting" water watering their lawn or brushing their teeth, it will be reflected in your food bill.

I'd love to see a lot more of the debate focused on the agricultural side of things. Restrictions on the types of crops that can be grown (We're growing rice, really?), as well as incentives of one form or another to get farmers to use less wasteful methods of irrigation.

Sadly it seems most of the public debate is over small reductions in the 20% used in non-agricultural areas, where reforms in agriculture would be much more beneficial from a long term perspective and easier to enforce.

The vast majority of water used in the entire country is for food production. One concern I've had as I've read many of the comments here is that people seem to be more comfortable blaming farmers as they keep watering lawns that normally wouldn't be growing in a desert climate.

Our food requires healthy soil, and healthy soil and all of the organic chemical and biological processes that must take place requires clean water. One cannot maintain an orchard with drip irrigation. Tree crops are much more efficient users of water than annual crops and both are dramatically better than industrial beef.

One of the members here turned me on to a continuing project at Berkeley and it's helping me understand food on an entirely new level. In addition to the books I've referenced and attempts to understand soil science, I highly recommend it.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ESYProject/videos
http://edibleschoolyard.org/

Yes, 'you' grow rice. 'We' grow rice in Texas as well. It's grass and needs a certain climate and physical environment for industrial farming. Rice is also grown in Vermont even though the USDA said it was 'impossible' until they found people doing it. It's time to learn how to work with nature rather than against her, I think. One thing I think I'm learning is that it's not a simple problem. It's not an 'us V them' because "those water grubbing farmers" are feeding us in cities/burbs. They could drop their water footprint dramatically if they grow their own food and 'let' us grow our own. Anyone want to go that route? :lol:

 

[GRA]

<snip>
Yes, 'you' grow rice. 'We' grow rice in Texas as well. It's grass and needs a certain climate and physical environment for industrial farming. Rice is also grown in Vermont even though the USDA said it was 'impossible' until they found people doing it. It's time to learn how to work with nature rather than against her, I think. One thing I think I'm learning is that it's not a simple problem. It's not an 'us V them' because "those water grubbing farmers" are feeding us in cities/burbs. They could drop their water footprint dramatically if they grow their own food and 'let' us grow our own. Anyone want to go that route? :lol:

One of the things about growing rice in California is that, while it's a water intensive crop, it's also been found that the fields provide habitat along the Pacific Flyway - see http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/regions/northamerica/unitedstates/california/howwework/california-migratory-birds.xml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for an example. OTOH, growing cotton here is just crazy, and as water restrictions tighten I expect that we'll see increased calls to ban it, just as there were in the most recent previous (post-'76-'77) drought. As for what California grows and what might replace it, here's a Mother Jones article: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/06/california-drought-water-produce-fruit-vegetables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Exactly - California grows a huge majority of our fruits and vegetables.

If California was its own country, they would be about the 8th largest economy. If they have problems - then we all have problems.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2015/03/19/california-drought-quinton

 

[mbender]

I look forward to the day solar powers enough desalination for the CA cities and farmers can fend for themselves.

This looks like a promising technology, but it's not getting as much attention or use as one might hope:

• An Unconventional Desalination Technology Could Solve California's Water Shortage

waterfx.co (not .com)
Limited press: WaterFX In The News

 

[dgpcolorado]

One of the things about growing rice in California is that, while it's a water intensive crop, it's also been found that the fields provide habitat along the Pacific Flyway - see http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/regions/northamerica/unitedstates/california/howwework/california-migratory-birds.xml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for an example. OTOH, growing cotton here is just crazy, and as water restrictions tighten I expect that we'll see increased calls to ban it, just as there were in the most recent previous (post-'76-'77) drought. As for what California grows and what might replace it, here's a Mother Jones article: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/06/california-drought-water-produce-fruit-vegetables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One advantage of California rice is that it isn't contaminated with arsenic as is the case with much of the rice grown in the South. Those places used to use arsenic on fields as a pesticide and, being an element, it doesn't go away. Unlike most plants, rice tends to accumulate arsenic and the highest levels are found in otherwise "healthy" brown rice (which I prefer). [Chemistry note: if you look at a periodic table of the elements you will see that arsenic is a phosphorous analog; phosphorous makes up the backbone of DNA and RNA molecules as well as a crucial use in energy transport via ATP.]

I wish there was a way to determine which rice comes from California, because it is likely to have much lower arsenic levels than southern rice, but I find that the packaging tends to obscure the state of origin.

 

[AndyH]

One of the things about growing rice in California is that, while it's a water intensive crop, it's also been found that the fields provide habitat along the Pacific Flyway - see http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/regions/northamerica/unitedstates/california/howwework/california-migratory-birds.xml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for an example. OTOH, growing cotton here is just crazy, and as water restrictions tighten I expect that we'll see increased calls to ban it, just as there were in the most recent previous (post-'76-'77) drought. As for what California grows and what might replace it, here's a Mother Jones article: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/06/california-drought-water-produce-fruit-vegetables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One advantage of California rice is that it isn't contaminated with arsenic as is the case with much of the rice grown in the South. Those places used to use arsenic on fields as a pesticide and, being an element, it doesn't go away. Unlike most plants, rice tends to accumulate arsenic and the highest levels are found in otherwise "healthy" brown rice (which I prefer). [Chemistry note: if you look at a periodic table of the elements you will see that arsenic is a phosphorous analog; phosphorous makes up the backbone of DNA and RNA molecules as well as a crucial use in energy transport via ATP.]

I wish there was a way to determine which rice comes from California, because it is likely to have much lower arsenic levels than southern rice, but I find that the packaging tends to obscure the state of origin.

Another reason to go organic as farmers are required to test for heavy metals to keep their OMRI cert.

http://rodaleinstitute.org/heavy-metals/

 

[Stoaty]

One advantage of California rice is that it isn't contaminated with arsenic as is the case with much of the rice grown in the South.

Not strictly true. Levels in California rice are about 50% of the levels in rice grown in the South:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17438760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[AndyH]

... Unlike most plants, rice tends to accumulate arsenic and the highest levels are found in otherwise "healthy" brown rice (which I prefer)...

Crud...I really wish you hadn't posted this.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cont...r Reports Arsenic in Food November 2012_1.pdf
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm352569.htm

Time to grab Paul Stamets' books and read-up on bioremediation...

 

[mbender]

I'd trust Lundberg Farms. At least they are dealing with the issue and publishing their test results. (http://www.lundberg.com/info/arsenic-in-food/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

In any case, this is probably another good reason to desalinate the runoff water (using WaterFX technology) and reuse it.

• WaterFX - Aqua4 (https://vimeo.com/73149209" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

 

[WetEV]

On Earth, the radiation balance is achieved at a point high in the troposphere and the temperature rises as you go down from that point toward the surface (and drops as you go higher in the troposphere). Gravity makes the conversion from potential energy to kinetic energy in the molecules, creating this temperature gradient.

One might have some less than interesting discussions on why you are getting the physics wrong, but I'm going to skip that. If the atmosphere is in near radiative balance with space at the top of the atmosphere, then what in the atmosphere is radiating heat to space?

What sets the altitude where "radiation balance is achieved"?

Reg, you can reply at:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4768&start=1170#p416025" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[dgpcolorado]

One advantage of California rice is that it isn't contaminated with arsenic as is the case with much of the rice grown in the South.

Not strictly true. Levels in California rice are about 50% of the levels in rice grown in the South:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17438760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

50% is a considerable improvement. Which is why I'd like to be able to identify and buy California rice.

I guess I should be clear: Arsenic is found in nearly all soils and will be absorbed by rice plants. Many/most of the fields in the South have higher arsenic levels because arsenic pesticides were used many years ago before they were banned. But arsenic is an element so it doesn't degrade, as is the case with most organic molecule insecticides, such as organophosphates. So it remains in the soil until it is flushed out or removed by those few plants that absorb it, such as rice.

Essentially all rice will have some arsenic in it and it is unclear how much constitutes a health hazard if exposure is at low levels over a long period of time. Most of us get arsenic through water and other sources as well. A little is likely not a problem and certainly can't be compared to acute arsenic poisoning in the style of Agatha Christie novels. But keeping one's dose down would seem to be a useful goal. And those old contaminated fields in the South produce rice with higher arsenic levels than other places, such as the California Delta.

As for "organic" rice, the FDA has this to say about it:
Do organic foods have less arsenic than non-organic foods?
Because arsenic is naturally found in the soil and water, it is absorbed by plants regardless of whether they are grown under conventional or organic farming practices. The FDA is unaware of any data that shows a difference in the amount of arsenic found in organic rice versus non-organic rice.

Another reason to go organic as farmers are required to test for heavy metals to keep their OMRI cert.

http://rodaleinstitute.org/heavy-metals/

I find this curious because arsenic, with an atomic number of 33, isn't really a "heavy metal". Nevertheless, it is safe to assume that fields with lower levels of arsenic, whether natural or added back in the "bad old days", will produce rice with lower levels of arsenic.


Bon Appétit!

 

[Stoaty]

50% is a considerable improvement. Which is why I'd like to be able to identify and buy California rice

Agreed on both counts. Here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dgrocery&field-keywords=lundberg%20brown%20rice%20california" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[dgpcolorado]

Agreed on both counts. Here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dgrocery&field-keywords=lundberg%20brown%20rice%20california" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks. Wouldn't have thought to check Amazon!

 

[gsleaf]

Exactly - California grows a huge majority of our fruits and vegetables.

Water use for livestock is much higher than for fruits and veggies.

Livestock production, which includes the irrigation of livestock feed crops, accounts for the greatest consumption of water in the West. Such a water-intensive industry is poorly suited to the arid West. Dewatering of rivers and groundwater pumping for irrigation is a major cause of species decline throughout the region, and water development for agriculture is costly to taxpayers.

http://www.publiclandsranching.org/htmlres/wr_guzzling_water.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mbender]

Agreed on both counts. Here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dgrocery&field-keywords=lundberg%20brown%20rice%20california" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks. Wouldn't have thought to check Amazon!

Costco -- or at least some Costcos -- sell big bags of Lundberg as well.

"Look What I Found Today at Costco!" ($13 for 12lb bag then/2010, late 2013 and still, I believe.)

• 

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I've wondered what a civil engineering project would look like to transport water from the Mississippi river areas that suffer from flooding to the western states. How big would that pipe need to be?

 

[edatoakrun]

I've wondered what a civil engineering project would look like to transport water from the Mississippi river areas that suffer from flooding to the western states...?

The Columbia river is a much easier source to tap from an engineering standpoint, and given the future climate change expected, likely to be a much more reliable source.

I doubt any proposal would sell very well in the PNW, though...

 

[dgpcolorado]

A New York Times article on the California drought:

As California Drought Enters 4th Year, Conservation Efforts and Worries Increase

 

[AndyH]

Compare/Contrast. This, above all, is the problem we're facing regardless of where in the US we live.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-eZNeWoR3o[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WASFEciCmp4[/youtube]

It's long past time for the choir to make themselves known, I strongly suggest...

In other news, as of the 20th I have a new neighbor - a family of 3 that moved from CA.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

It could get so bad people will stop coming illegally.