Upgrade to new battery & keep the old?

[RegGuheert]

A good conversation. Thanks to all who replied. So far nobody has told me they successfully kept their LEAF battery after a battery swap.

Most battery swaps so far have been warranty replacements. In that case, I do not think you are ever entitled to the old parts, since Nissan paid the tab.

Does anyone know if I can upgrade my 2012 SL to a 2016 battery?

I'm quite sure that Nissan will sell us a 2016 24-kWh battery. The question is whether they will sell us a 2016 30-kWh battery.

I've heard the 2016 battery will have 30 kWh capacity rather than 24, so it would make it a worthwhile upgrade for me as soon as it were available if they are interchangeable, (backward compatible?) and Nissan would allow upgrading to a 2016 battery.

There is a possibility here that could be interesting: Perhaps it is true that the 2016 30-kWh battery is the ONLY one compatible with the MY2011/2012 LEAFs. That COULD be true IF the capacity of the standard modules has increased by 25% AND the 24-kWh battery is the oddball because it has fewer modules (and hence a lower operating voltage).

While I think it is likely that the standard modules now have 25% more capacity, I suspect that the 2016 24-kWh batteries do NOT have fewer modules and hence a lower voltage. That would simply add too much additional complexity to the drivetrain, DC-DC converter and the HVAC systems. Instead, I expect they simply have a software derate. In that case, the question becomes "How can I defeat the software derate in a 2014 24-kWh LEAF battery pack?"

Hopefully Nissan will simply sell us the 30-kWh battery packs.

 

[edatoakrun]

="drees"
...Just look at how few people are opting to buy a replacement pack out of warranty...

Isn't it still no, rather than few?

="drees"...Even if they sold the "30 kWh" pack at $6,000 installed for early adopters, I doubt many people would opt to buy it.

So do I.

The incremental advantage of having a pack with ~27 available kWh, over a pack with ~18 kWh available (which is ~what my OE pack now allows me to use) for most LEAF drivers, those who use < 12 kWh in most of their daily driving, and/or have either a secure intraday AC source or decent access to DC charge sites, will generally not be worth that much $.

However, I don't have access to any local DC sites, and my minimum daily drive is over 50 miles, requiring ~12-14 kWh from the pack during the Winter.

So, I'd probably choose to buy a new pack on those terms within the next few years, but only if the value of my OE pack was recouped in the transaction, either with a trade-in value greater than $1,000, or by keeping it myself.

Anyway, while it could be only be a few weeks until we know whether a higher-kWh pack for LEAFs will be available from Nissan (both compatible and made available for sale) I'm not taking any bets...

 

[Valdemar]

I'm very likely to buy a replacement pack due to a teenager in the family who will need a car to drive in 3 years, unless of course a 30-40 mile range will be enough for her needs.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I'm very likely to buy a replacement pack due to a teenager in the family who will need a car to drive in 3 years, unless of course a 30-40 mile range will be enough for her needs.

If I had a teenage daughter learning to drive, I would want her to make do with 30-40 mile range. She shouldn't need more than that (around here anyway) and that's less trouble she can get into.

Of course, my daughter is only 4 so that's a long way off. Longer than the lifetime of my 2012 Leaf, anyway.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I’ve got a Law degree on the wall.

My read on this is it has nothing to do with a warranty exchange, wherein Nissan probably could enforce an exchange.

I can talk about this in “conceptual” terms, but I don’t have any specific information.

1) I bought my car outright in 2012. I signed NOTHING when I did it. Really, Nothing. I OWN it, and all the pieces that are contained therein.

2) Now there are laws in place that force vehicle manufacturers to allow independent shops to purchase any parts needed to repair their cars.

3) So if I take my car to “Bobs Repair” to replace my battery, Bob should be able to order the pack. Now keep in mind I OWN my other pack free and clear. I also purchased the included 12VDC batter in there as well, and while they will charge me a “core” charge were I to purchase a new one, they cannot compel me to avail myself of that.

What if my pack got stolen? Huh Hhh? Nudge Nudge! Stolen ……. yeah that’s the ticket.

In conclusion, I would like to keep my pack as well for the same reason; solar storage.
Nissan is going to have a heck of a time getting me to return my old pack (the pack I OWN) if I ever purchase a replacement.

And lastly, I would be astonished if the 2016 pack could be retrofitted into a 2012 car.
Programming is all wrong. Can messages, etc.

Nissan has no real incentive to make it happen either.
They don't seem like a company that does things because it will help early adopters or be "the right thing to do"

If anybody out there purchases a pack from a wreck, and wants to split in in half to make it a range extender, give me a PM.
I have designed a simple 12Kw add on pack, and I just need some modules.

in your case they only need to invent a core charge

And lastly, I would be astonished if the 2016 pack could be retrofitted into a 2012 car.
Programming is all wrong. Can messages, etc.

Nissan has no real incentive to make it happen either.
They don't seem like a company that does things because it will help early adopters or be "the right thing to do"

no incentive if they continue marketing a 24 kwh option in some form which I am betting they will not. the 30 kwh pack is a result of better chemistry, higher voltages and NOT more cells nor significantly bigger cells which essentially makes the 24 kwh pack obsolete

but warranty requirements says they gotta have spare parts for at least 10 years which means continue to market the 24 kwh pack using old technology or a GREATLY modified pack likely with less cells or simply use the existing stock parts namely the 30 kwh packs which has the same cell count only higher voltages. not sure how much is involved with changing software to handle higher voltages but I do know the expense of maintaining two separate hardware lines.

the real question; can a battery pack built today still be ok for warranty exchange 9 years from now?

 

[DaveEV]

Instead, I expect they simply have a software derate.

That would be the sales & marketing screw-up of the century.

If they can sell a software de-rated S at a profit, they are far better off simply selling it at full capacity and selling tons more of them. If they don't want to sell that many of them - just raise the price.

It's quite likely that they will continue to sell two slightly different capacity packs, especially if the higher capacity packs require special additives that increase the cost.

There's a reason why you can buy quite a capacity range of 18650 lithium cells, for example, and the higher capacity cells tend to cost a healthy premium over the lower capacity cells.

 

[Valdemar]

I'm very likely to buy a replacement pack due to a teenager in the family who will need a car to drive in 3 years, unless of course a 30-40 mile range will be enough for her needs.

If I had a teenage daughter learning to drive, I would want her to make do with 30-40 mile range. She shouldn't need more than that (around here anyway) and that's less trouble she can get into.

I agree, but not sure how the logistics will work out, 30 miles may not be enough even for a round trip to the closest community college here.

 

[Firetruck41]

I happened to do a google search last night for the battery pack part number, I found a dealer that had it on their online catalog for $3699, IIRC, which was $900 under MSRP (that did not include the other parts required for the job, like housings, etc.) So there may be deals to be had in the future at the dealers that have a major online retail presence! Another dealer online catalog refers to the $1000 core charge. If you don't return the core, you don't get the $1k back.

Mossy Nissan for $3599.20 (MSRP $4499): http://www.nissanpartsconnection.com/OEMParts/nissan-142/2/295B03NF9E.html

EDIT: hmmm... if I navigate through the online catalog to that part number it is listed at $4498...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Instead, I expect they simply have a software derate.

That would be the sales & marketing screw-up of the century.

If they can sell a software de-rated S at a profit, they are far better off simply selling it at full capacity and selling tons more of them. If they don't want to sell that many of them - just raise the price.

It's quite likely that they will continue to sell two slightly different capacity packs, especially if the higher capacity packs require special additives that increase the cost.

There's a reason why you can buy quite a capacity range of 18650 lithium cells, for example, and the higher capacity cells tend to cost a healthy premium over the lower capacity cells.

software derate is a possibility later down the line but keeping in mind that battery packs must begin its build process several months in advance and if sales were not as much as expected and there are several 24 kwh packs already in the build pipeline then they have to go somewhere right?

so they either are held for up to 10 years for warranty or used in the initial 2015 S's until the supply is exhausted then a derated pack used for the remainder of the 2015 S run which I have to think will be much less popular when competing against the 30 kwh pack