Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[mwalsh]

Got this under the warranty 5yr. 60k, so I'm at 37k miles and this will be my last battery under warranty and it will probably last me 3 years. So, this car will be dust in 2 yrs. bec. anything under 11 bars just doesn't work. I paid 34K for a car that will last under 6 years, expensive lesson. but I wanted to be a pioneer......

Of course, I really wish I had leased it, but in 6/2011 I was told that you had to buy the Leaf to get the $7,500 federal credit. Now you can get the federal credit on a lease

It's too early to be pessimistic about the Lizard packs - we don't yet know how they'll hold up. Obviously, the hope is they'll do much, much better than the original packs.

Too much water under the bridge now, but Nissan always rolled the tax credit into a lease. Always. Whomever told you different misinformed you, and I'm afraid it's a classic example of why everyone shopping for a vehicle should find a site like this for that make/model and gather as much information as possible first.

 

[TimLee]

... Of course, I really wish I had leased it, but in 6/2011 I was told that you had to buy the Leaf to get the $7,500 federal credit. Now you can get the federal credit on a lease. I didn't even get the Federal Credit bec. I was laid off when I bought it and it was an 'earned' tax credit. So, only got $2,500 credit. Expensive, expensive lesson......
...

Please correct your delivery date. It says 2014.
Would help if you also added a location.

 

[1212123]

I am researching the Leaf now because I am considering one and the info I have is that the leasing company gets the federal rebate not the customer.

Thats why the leaf rebates are fairly attractive now because they pass some of that along to the customer.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I am researching the Leaf now because I am considering one and the info I have is that the leasing company gets the federal rebate not the customer.

Thats why the leaf rebates are fairly attractive now because they pass some of that along to the customer.

Nissan's leasing company (NMAC) passes all of the federal rebate on to the customer — and always has done so — by using it as a down payment on the car, thus lowering lease payments. Some other car companies don't pass it all on, making their leases relatively more expensive.

One strategy for those who want to buy the car but don't owe enough in federal income taxes to qualify for the entire rebate is to lease the car and then buy out the lease.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am researching the Leaf now because I am considering one and the info I have is that the leasing company gets the federal rebate not the customer.

Thats why the leaf rebates are fairly attractive now because they pass some of that along to the customer.

a LEAF rebate is from Nissan. the fed tax has NOTHING to do with that. The big knock on the RAV4EV lease is that Toyota was taking a pretty large chunk of that and keeping it. Nissan passes EVERY PENNY of that $7500 to you as a credit towards a down payment so you need to add those two together to get the real picture

 

[crestca]

My first post- I am at 59980 miles, 3 bars down, and have to replace battery since range has degraded far more than the bars would indicate (now about 40-50% range).
I told dealer service dept I wanted to buy a replacement, which is when the surprises began. Any feedback welcome:
1) told me Nissan might not agree to sell me one- at least until I lost 4th bar.
2) showed me a document that says replacement battery may not bring things back to 12 bars- could be as low as 9 (though they would replace if new pack fell below 9).
3) document also says that replacement battery doesn't ensure range restoration.

I commute 28 mile mostly highway driving 65- and home is 1400 ft above work. When new I could get to work and back no trickle charge- at ~20K had to trickle at work
- now I make it to work OK and have to trickle all day then fast charge simply to get home- drive on mostly surface streets without climate controls- and end up with 3 bars final.

What are my realistic options? Sell at a loss and buy something else? Try to get a facilitated trade in? Limp around for a year (costs me 30-60 minutes a day and $$) until 2016 model available and hope for a sympathetic deal? Argue that a new battery (here in San Diego costs ~$7K to replace) should restore original capacity? Are they selling recycle batts for the price? Under the present fact pattern, they could take my battery out, change the label and put it back in and it would meet their criteria for a successful replacement!

Dealer is trying to help- I am first person to hit 60K in need of replacement and they were as surprised as I was to see the terms. Some of what I discuss here was on a sheet dated Nov 26, 2014.

I am a fairly long-range user and was sorta prepared to eat the replacement cost early- but to find out I would have to do this with no guarantee it would significantly improve the usability of the vehicle is beyond imagination. Always thought that I could replace every 50-60K and run the thing to 250K like most cars I have owned. This is a shock! Loved the car to this point...

Thanks for any help/guidance!

 

[Valdemar]

I told dealer service dept I wanted to buy a replacement, which is when the surprises began.

Just to make sure, do you want to buy out of pocket or do you want a free replacement battery under warranty?

 

[crestca]

I don't qualify for warranty replacement- need to purchase myself. Had been limping for 6 weeks to see if I lost 4th bar. Not likely to lose it in next 20 miles (though I could always hope).

 

[Valdemar]

I don't qualify for warranty replacement- need to purchase myself.

You might then be the first owner known on this forum (or may be in the universe) to purchase a new pack.

Your dealer is confused most likely because they never handled a purchase which only became possible since last summer, if my memory serves me well. When you buy outright, which you can do any time you want, you should get a brand spanking new pack with said improved life in hotter climates (but nobody really knows how much improved it really is, if at all). You should get all range back until it starts degrading again. 7k to replace sounds about right including taxes. Do shop around as some dealers may be willing to discount the pack from $5,500 MSRP by a significant margin. Your items 1-2-3 only apply to a battery replacement under warranty.

Are you already above 60k? If not you may want to just stop driving the car and let it sit in the garage waiting for the 4th bar to disappear. Even if you have to drive a rental for the next 6 months it will be less expensive than a new pack. You can get a sense how close you're to losing it, if you're interested we can provide more details.

 

[crestca]

Thanks for the reply- I kinda figured I am early in the game from the posts. They have only replaced 2-3 batteries
and they were early fails. I have 20 miles to go before 60,000 so letting it sit is a good possibility I hadn't thought of-
would love to get info on how to check status (I have iPhone)...?

I will try checking around pricewise- maybe some dealership up towards LA- only two companies here.

I read well upside down, and have seen copies of sheets dated Nov 26, 2014- reference WBP/14-031.
Upon reconsidering the notes I took, it may be that the worrisome language relates to any eventual replacement
of the replacement battery. Will talk with Nissan tomorrow and the dealer and post what I hear back.

Will check back in morning- thanks so much!

 

[Valdemar]

How long ago and at what mileage did you lose the 3rd bar?

The best tool we have runs on Android, it is called Leaf Spy. Perhaps iPhone users can chime in and report if there is a similar iPhone app that can report detailed battery status. Leaf Spy reports estimated remaining battery capacity in Ahr. Third bar reportedly drops around 47.17 AHr, and fourth around 43.25 Ahr. So if you're close to 43.25 Ahr the wait strategy may work out. It is not risk-free even if the 4th bar drops as the dealer is supposed to validate capacity loss using a method blessed by Nissan, most importantly if not already installed on your car they will load the infamous P3227 update which is known to affect capacity loss readings as there were cases when people reported a lost capacity bar reappear after the update was applied.

Here is a wiki page for Leaf Spy: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/?title=Leaf_Battery_Application" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. There is a lot of information, but really you just need an ELM327 Bluetooth dongle and an Android device, the setup is very easy. Perhaps someone local who has Leaf Spy working will be willing to stop by and read your car's data.

If you do decide to wait for the bar to drop, keep the car charged at 100%, preferably exposed to the sun. Better yet ship it to Arizona until the end of the summer, the heat there will eat through the remainder of the 4th bar pretty quick

 

[JPWhite]

I don't qualify for warranty replacement- need to purchase myself. Had been limping for 6 weeks to see if I lost 4th bar. Not likely to lose it in next 20 miles (though I could always hope).

They are clearly confused between warranty replacemnets and purchased.

I would call the central number, explain the incorrect feedback you got regarding outright purchase and ask them to help you find a dealer who can do this under the right terms, youshould geta new warranty on the pack with zero miles on it.

EV Customer Support Team
Phone: (877) NO GAS EV (or 877-664-2738)

 

[mwalsh]

How long ago and at what mileage did you lose the 3rd bar?

The best tool we have runs on Android, it is called Leaf Spy. Perhaps iPhone users can chime in and report if there is a similar iPhone app that can report detailed battery status. Leaf Spy reports estimated remaining battery capacity in Ahr. Third bar reportedly drops around 47.17 AHr, and fourth around 43.25 Ahr. So if you're close to 43.25 Ahr the wait strategy may work out. It is not risk-free even if the 4th bar drops as the dealer is supposed to validate capacity loss using a method blessed by Nissan, most importantly if not already installed on your car they will load the infamous P3227 update which is known to affect capacity loss readings as there were cases when people reported a lost capacity bar reappear after the update was applied.

Here is a wiki page for Leaf Spy: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/?title=Leaf_Battery_Application" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. There is a lot of information, but really you just need an ELM327 Bluetooth dongle and an Android device, the setup is very easy. Perhaps someone local who has Leaf Spy working will be willing to stop by and read your car's data.

If you do decide to wait for the bar to drop, keep the car charged at 100%, preferably exposed to the sun. Better yet ship it to Arizona until the end of the summer, the heat there will eat through the remainder of the 4th bar pretty quick

+1. Where you at? You said "up towards LA", does that mean you're in OC? I could maybe meet you someplace with my LEAF Spy kit and get a reading.

 

[Valdemar]

S/he said San Diego...

 

[mwalsh]

S/he said San Diego...

Ah, I see.

So it's find someone down there then, or build a LEAF Spy kit. I'm not sure if the iOS version of LEAF Spy is ready to go yet, but even if it is you'll still need a WiFi OBDII dongle, so here are the entry costs for an Android Bluetooth version:

Phone $20 (this is very cheap for this phone)
http://www.kmart.com/virgin-mobile-kyocera-smartphone-w-android-4.0-os/p-018W006170628001P?sid=KDx01192011x000001&kpid=018W006170628001&kispla=018W006170628001P&kpid=018W006170628001&mktRedirect=y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bluetooth OBDII dongle $15
http://www.amazon.com/Switch-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner-Engine/dp/B00BL3KQZO/ref=sr_1_31?ie=UTF8&qid=1421258301&sr=8-31&keywords=bluetooth+obd2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LEAF Spy $0.00-$14.99 depending on version (all three will give you an Ahr reading)
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=leaf%20spy%20pro&c=apps&hl=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Total $35, $45, or $50, depending on LEAF Spy version.

Note that the phone does NOT need to be activated on the carrier's network for this activity, so don't think you need to sign up for a phone number or account with Virgin or anything. You just need WiFi to download the app from Google Play and Bluetooth for connectivity to the OBDII.

BTW, can I just say that someone getting alarmingly close to 60,000 miles and/or the 6th year of ownership, with the car persistently stuck at 9 bars remaining (and I've heard of a couple of instances now of this being the case), is what I envisaged all along for most people.

 

[ttweed]

S/he said San Diego...

Yes, username suggests Crest, which is on the east rim of the El Cajon Valley in San Diego County. The 1400' elevation rise to get home fits this assumption perfectly, as you have to go up La Cresta Rd. from Greenfield Dr. in El Cajon about that much to get there. I used to own land up there and built several houses in the neighborhood. I could meet up with the OP and hook my Leaf Spy up to their car if desired.

If I get close to 59K miles with my 3-bar loser, I am going to park it and drive it only minimally to stretch those last 1,000 mile out to the six-year lifetime window to give it the best chance to degrade the last bar through aging effect alone, while charging it to 100% every day and parking it in the sun. I'm done with babying it--that got me nothing.

TT

 

[Valdemar]

I'm done with babying it--that got me nothing.

I've realized that as well, but it was too late

 

[TimLee]

...
BTW, can I just say that someone getting alarmingly close to 60,000 miles and/or the 6th year of ownership, with the car persistently stuck at 9 bars remaining (and I've heard of a couple of instances now of this being the case), is what I envisaged all along for most people.

I agree.
Appears more and more likely that less than 5% of people will qualify for the capacity warranty.
Nissan's sad 66.25% five year / 60,000 mile all or nothing capacity warranty is not in the best interest of the LEAF brand.

I too am tired of the nuisance of charging to 80%.
If Nissan eliminated 80% charging in 2014 it must be OK to always charge to 100% :?:

For myself with two bar loss at 43 months, will take a lot of usage in only 17 months.
Battery probably has 325 full cycles on it now.
Probably require 400 cycles in 17 months.
Quite a challenge / nuisance to do that.
And about $650 for the charging electricity :shock:

 

[Phatcat73]

There is an iphone app which will give you the AHR reading, but it requires a wifi OBD dongle. The iOS app isnt' as robust as Leaf spy on an android. If you're close to losing bar #4, then I would park the car for a while and find alternative means. Hopefully you have another vehicle?

You can also call that EV hotline and discuss options with a specialist. Perhaps they'll have other ideas, particularly if you're AHR reading is close.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IUHDM64/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[abasile]

My concern about parking the car at a mileage just below 60K is that the BMS might not update its battery capacity estimate (it's always an estimate, not an exact value) unless the car is being used. Has anyone observed changes (drops) in the AHR reading for a car that is not being driven?

Perhaps one workaround, if at only a hair below 60K miles, could be to turn on the car, leave it parked, and run the heater with the temperature set to 90 degrees for a few hours. It seems likely that discharging the battery in this manner could force the BMS to recalibrate its battery capacity estimate.

Our LEAF is at 53K miles and on the cusp of losing its second capacity bar. Since we are not inclined to go out of our way to leave it parked in the low desert for the better part of a year, I expect we'll be using the original battery pack for years to come.