Unable to Restart after using AC (was AC causes failure)

[evnow]

I have a feeling that building in the ability to have this error took a great deal of effort and it makes me worry that Nissan is attempting to make an EV that requires maintenance because of bogus problems.

LOL. This "feeling" takes the cake.

BTW, manufacturers lose money when the dealers have to do any work within the warranty period. They don't want that to happen.

 

[EVDRIVER]

EV motors have been working reliably for many years. Hybrids have the same issues, this is a software tweak and that's it likely, it's not an indication of EV reliability as an EV drive is far more reliable than any ICE.

 

[abasile]

To drive my EV, after it is charged I enter, turn on the key, select F or R, then depress the footfeed and I go. Nissan apparently felt they could improve upon this.

Yes, I think having air conditioning is an improvement! You have to power the A/C somehow. Given time, I am confident that Nissan will work through glitches such as this, and that the LEAF truly will require less maintenance than gasoline cars. I am not inclined to believe conspiracy theories. It's enough work for Nissan to get things right; I don't think they are going to intentionally introduce problems (planned obsolescence) as some automakers have been suspected of doing!

 

[leafwing]

I received a call from Nissan Leaf this afternoon to check on my car. The CS rep. told me that Nissan is aware of the issue and its engineers are working on a software update which will be ready in a week or so. He told me that the cause is a software glitch.

So we were talking about the car, I mentioned that the technician "reprogrammed" the car on Friday while at the dealership. The rep. then said: your car has received the software update at the dealer, since it does not have this issue anymore. Temperatures were not high since Friday; we had a thunderstorm and a lot of rain this morning. A/C issue arises when the temperature is high and climate control remotely turned on using an iphone.

So, I do expect that Nissan dealers will call Leaf owner's in the coming days to install the updated software.
In the meanwhile, I'm not going to turn CC remotely and a wrench will be in the car all the time. Towing the car twice in one week was not pleasant at all. The question is: if this issue is related to a software glitch, how come it did not appear during testing, especially in high temperatures? Since, not all Leaf owners' are having the same issue, does that mean our cars have different software versions?

 

[mwalsh]

Since, not all Leaf owners' are having the same issue, does that mean our cars have different software versions?

I have a feeling that's what it's going to turn out to be, with earlier cars not being affected at all. Not that I'm willing to try that theory out just yet.

 

[derkraut]

Since, not all Leaf owners' are having the same issue, does that mean our cars have different software versions?

I have a feeling that's what it's going to turn out to be, with earlier cars not being affected at all. Not that I'm willing to try that theory out just yet.

Go for it mwalsh....inquiring minds want to know!

 

[evnow]

Were the couple of "car stalled" issues we got earlier, related to this ? May be they made some updates because of that - which resulted in this issue. Patching is always a hazardous job ...

 

[Boomer23]

I have a feeling that building in the ability to have this error took a great deal of effort and it makes me worry that Nissan is attempting to make an EV that requires maintenance because of bogus problems. I can see no reasonable explanation that the drivetrain would be tied into any system other than the drivetrain which includes, batteries, motor and the actual drivetrain.

I advise patience with these early glitches. You can trot out your conspiracy theory sometime during the next twelve months when the next glitch happens. That way your theory won't be so tired when you want to use it again.

If you've paid any attention to the amount of money and reputation that Nissan/Renault has spent in the past several years in Asia, North America and Europe on their big bet on EVs, you might be less inclined to panic when the first glitch happens.

By the way, lest you doubt my personal investment in this, my LEAF is one of those suspected to be affected and it goes to the dealer service dept in two days to have its software updated.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Reality check folks, there is a setting that needs adjustment, if you understand what it is then you know it is no big deal. The idea EV DRIVE tech is unreliable or that Nissan wants to pay their dealers for warranty work is not well thought out. This forum has a tendency to turn into the afternoon bridge club or an HOA in a 10 unit building. This is a minor issue with an unfortunate result that will likely be fixed and forgotten, worry about the pack loosing capacity, that's more of a reality of future revenue. Let's turn off the FUD :roll:

 

[AndyH]

Reality check folks, there is a setting that needs adjustment, if you understand what it is then you know it is no big deal. The idea EV DRIVE tech is unreliable or that Nissan wants to pay their dealers for warranty work is not well thought out. This forum has a tendency to turn into the afternoon bridge club or an HOA in a 10 unit building. This is a minor issue with an unfortunate result that will likely be fixed and forgotten, worry about the pack loosing capacity, that's more of a reality of future revenue. Let's turn off the FUD :roll:

AMEN!

 

[aqn]

Reality check folks, there is a setting that needs adjustment, if you understand what it is then you know it is no big deal. [...] This is a minor issue with an unfortunate result that will likely be fixed and forgotten, [...]. Let's turn off the FUD :roll:

A certain Bill from the State of Washington says stuff like this as well... "No big deal" and "minor issue" is in the eye of the beholder. Remember "If Microsoft Made Your Car"? Having to have one's brand-new car towed multiple times simply because one uses it as advertised is a big deal. If the error is so serious as to necessitate disabling the car, shouldn't the storage of that error code be non-volatile (see "10mm wrench")? If the malfunction is that serious, wouldn't it be just as serious after 12V power has been disconnected and restored?

To me, to disable the car because of a glitch in the A/C system is either a big fail in testing of the system, or symptomatic of a kludge "exception handler" to handle an A/C error condition that one doesn't know how to deal with gracefully. Either way, I fail to see why Nissan should get a pass on this.

The LEAF may be the first of its kind, a pioneer, but not having the proper level of expectation of its performance and reliability will ensure that it remains a pioneer forever, never transitioning to "the main stream".

I am not backing out of my T-minus-18-days delivery. I do want the LEAF to succeed, as does everybody here, I'm sure, which is why we should not be trivializing this problem (if it is indeed as surmised).

Needless to say, this puts a serious dent in my plan to show off my new LEAF to EV skeptics...

 

[LakeLeaf]

To me, to disable the car because of a glitch in the A/C system is either a big fail in testing of the system, or symptomatic of a kludge "exception handler" to handle an A/C error condition that one doesn't know how to deal with gracefully. Either way, I fail to see why Nissan should get a pass on this.

While we don't know the exact details - from what we have heard I'm not sure this is a good characterization of the issue. We've heard that the car shut down because a sensor recorded an over voltage on a main bus. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable thing for the car to do. Perhaps the amount of over voltage was small enough to maybe not have caused that severe an action, but some engineers decided it was enough of an issue to worry about.

The fact that apparently it is the A/C that is causing the over voltage is really a completely different issue. Yes - there appears to be a cause and effect in place, but it's doubtful that the sensor that was responsible for shutting down the car because of a condition out of spec knows anything about what the A/C is doing.

You could argue maybe it should, maybe it could, but that would imply that the A/C knows it is putting out a condition that another sensor would flag. It's not clear that the A/C has that type of instrumentation in it. They are likely completely autonomous systems.

 

[aqn]

To me, to disable the car because of a glitch in the A/C system is either a big fail in testing of the system, or symptomatic of a kludge "exception handler" to handle an A/C error condition that one doesn't know how to deal with gracefully. Either way, I fail to see why Nissan should get a pass on this.

While we don't know the exact details - from what we have heard I'm not sure this is a good characterization of the issue.

Yes, I should have indicated that the "glitch in the A/C system" is still only a theory, to avoid misleading those stumbling onto the middle of this thread. As far as I can tell, so nobody knows what the root cause is yet.

The root cause does not seem to be a serious one at this point because apparently nothing is bursting into flames, grinding parts to metal dust, or spewing electrolyte. However, the fact that disconnecting the 12V battery for a few minutes "clears" the problem smells like a poor design, or at best, a kludge, somewhere in the system.

 

[GeekEV]

... On a whim, I disconnected the 12 volt battery and let it sit for about 10 minutes. I then reconnected the battery and tried it again. Success! It once again operated completely normally.

Hmm, Ctrl-Alt-Delete for a Leaf. Maybe one of these...

Battery Disconnect

I decided to look into one of these, just in case. Turns out it isn't needed! The LEAF has a disconnect system already there. All you have to do is replace a standard nut with a wing nut and presto! The nut comes off with a 13mm socket, and is replaced by a 8mm wing nut from home depot. If you're careful to support the right side of the assembly while you do this, you won't even disconnect your battery while you do. :lol:

 

[TomT]

I refused to do this on general principals. I don't want the car to get the idea that this will be a regular occurrence! :lol:

Turns out it isn't needed! The LEAF has a disconnect system already there. All you have to do is replace a standard nut with a wing nut and presto! The nut comes off with a 13mm socket, and is replaced by a 8mm wing nut from home depot. If you're careful to support the right side of the assembly while you do this, you won't even disconnect your battery while you do. :lol:

 

[EVDRIVER]

The threshold is supposed to be too sensitive, about 3X of a Prius this would be on the error of caution and causing the error that will not start the car, they will correct it and it will be done. If they do not the Lemon law will kick in and then the car goes back, I have no concerns over this issue based on what the service manual specs are and what has been demonstrated on other EVs. It's an over sensitive safety feature that needs adjustment. Here is some perspective, if Nissan can't fix issues to customer satisfaction in the warranty period with all they have invested in the LEAF they will no longer exist, use logic and reason and worry about getting screwed on the capacity of the pack not items you have full recourse on. If the car is a complete POS you will soon know and Nissan will no longer exist, measure the probability with reason and intelligent thought. Although I would not recommend using the French voice control on the NAV.

 

[abasile]

Although I would not recommend using the French voice control on the NAV.

:lol:

 

[EVDRIVER]

She is in my back seat now throwing error codes on my neck. I had to pull over and discharge my entire AC compressor into the cabin to cool things off.

 

[GeekEV]

I refused to do this on general principals. I don't want the car to get the idea that this will be a regular occurrence! :lol:

It's, uh, an anti-theft device...

 

[EVDRIVER]

My favorite LEAF error code is 533, Skippy peanut butter short on an L3 charge station. Must be the lead content.