Tier 2 pushed back to Summer 2011???

[mwalsh]

I think Nissan WILL update the car as it goes along. They can't leave a Leaf 1.0 out there for year after year. I don't anticipate a major redesign or anything, but tweeks to the batteries etc. over time will show up to keep the car 'fresh'. Those in the forgotten 36 will get a better car than some of us.....that's the payoff for having to wait.

+1. We may even kick ourselves for being early adopters (I often do!).

 

[hodad66]

Interesting wording on ABG.......

"The initial Nissan LEAF deliveries will be followed by a second shipment of Nissan LEAF electric cars scheduled to arrive on Dec. 20 and destined for consumer driveways in time for the holidays. Nissan is on track for a nationwide launch of the Nissan LEAF by 2012, with Hawaii and Texas next to roll out in early 2011. In order to fulfill interest and meet demand in initial launch markets, Nissan plans to reopen reservations in the first half of 2011 as well as shift timing of additional markets until the second half of 2011."

so while my "reservation" gets ignored, those new to the system will go forward
because they are in the first or second rollout states? So much for being a dedicated
electric car advocate.

 

[kmp647]

I think it would really torque a lot of people to see somone who signs up in april 2011 in CA get a car before we do having signed up april 2010

just because we are on the east coast

 

[Rokeby]

Although I passionately believe that the next car that I buy will be an
EV, everyday that goes by the liklyhood of it being a LEAF gets
smaller.

As to other EV's that will be available in 2011-2012, the THINK City is
currently scheduled for release to fleet buyers in 2nd Qtr 2011, with
release to regular folks in 2012.

I think Nissan is making a strategic mistake pushing the Tier 2 and
beyond releases back. If things go according to the announced plans of
other car makers in Europe and Asian countries, the non-ICE segments
-- hybrids, PHEVs, EVs --of the markets in late 2011 and 2012 are
going to be thick with offerings. I expect it to be a buyers market.

Waiting isn't fun. And for those of us everywhere but in the Tier 1 states,
there is no good reason to get emotionally or psychologically attached
to Nissan and the LEAF. By 2012, it'll be just one of many, and perhaps
the less attractive offering if it stays in its late-2010 form without
updates/enhancements in response to user-raised issues.

You can bet the other companies planning EVs are watching the Tier 1
rollouts and subsequent complaints/problems very attentively...
especially this forum. They will be riding Nissan's coat tails and making
very shrewd counter offerings in a totally different sales environment.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Really, thought, what would you rather have?
A Coda? A Think City? A Fit EV? None of these seem to stand out as better than the Leaf.

All the ones that sound "better" are a good three years away.. Infiniti EV, Fisker Karma, RAV4 EV II, etc.

Yeah, okay, we'd all rather have a Roadster, but hey. What else are you going to buy in 2011? 2012? A plug-in hybrid?

 

[evnow]

I think Nissan is making a strategic mistake pushing the Tier 2 and
beyond releases back. If things go according to the announced plans of
other car makers in Europe and Asian countries, the non-ICE segments
-- hybrids, PHEVs, EVs --of the markets in late 2011 and 2012 are
going to be thick with offerings. I expect it to be a buyers market.

You will be not so pleasantly surprised how "thick" the offerings will really be. The only mainstream EV expected next year is the Focus - again available mostly in places where Leaf is available.

In late 2012 we can expect some Toyota, Honda offerings. But probably again mainly in CA - afterall they are mainly trying to fulfill new CARB regulations from 2012.

I expect the market to be a buyers market only by 2015.

ps : To expect that other manufacturers will not have any delays is being highly optimistic.

 

[mitch672]

probably no one remembers this, but way back when, the Leaf was supposed to only be in the EV project areas, and it was supposed to be for a full year of testing, with availability in the rest of the country in 2012.

Well, it looks like that plan is back in effect, or maybe it always was, and Nissan was taking reservations nationwide just to judge interest, but they never really planned on deliverying the Leaf to ANYONE outside of the EV project before early 2012.

That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it. Now, go ahead and prove me wrong. Go read on the EV project website their mission statement, and what the point of the project and testing was...

with the dollar taking a beating, Nissans only real commitment is to deliver the 5700 Leafs to the EV project participants, for a full year, so the EV Project can gather data, and analyze it. When this is done, Smyrna TN will be ready to come online, and anything they have learned in the past year can be used to improve the mfr process and changes can be made, before they start REAL mass production (150K Leafs / year) in Smyrna

http://www.theevproject.com/education.php

Why were only Arizona, California, Tennessee, Oregon, Washington, Texas and District of Columbia chosen as launch markets?

Those markets were chosen through ECOtality’s EV Micro-Climate program. ECOtality’s EV Micro-Climate program is an integrated turn-key program that advances select areas for the adoption of electric transportation. ECOtality North America is highly experienced with installing electric vehicle (EV) charging stations in residential, commercial and public environments, and has installed more charging stations for on-road applications than any other company. ECOtality developed its EV Micro-Climate program as means of utilizing this experience to develop rich charge infrastructures, focused on Level 2 and DC Fast Charging systems, as efficiently and cost effectively as possible. This program will provide a blueprint for a comprehensive EV infrastructure system and provides detailed action plans for its successful execution and continued maintenance. Lessons learned from tests in these markets will provide a roadmap for widespread EV use.

http://www.theevproject.com/overview.php

The EV Project will collect and analyze data to characterize vehicle use in diverse topographic and climatic conditions, evaluate the effectiveness of charge infrastructure, and conduct trials of various revenue systems for commercial and public charge infrastructure. The ultimate goal of The EV Project is to take the lessons learned from the deployment of these first 8,300 EVs, and the charging infrastructure supporting them, to enable the streamlined deployment of the next 5,000,000 EVs.

 

[stanley]

Mitch, I thought that the EV Project was to begin 7/1/2010 and run for a year and a half. That would require that the 5,700 Leafs be in the hands of participants by the end of June. Not likely that will happen. For example, my son is a participant in the EV Project and has a February order date. Is Nissan under any legal constraints to deliver the 5,700 Leafs or is The Government spending billions only on promise by nissan that may or may not happen.

Perhaps Nissan canceled Tier 2 so that it would have the cars neccessary to complete their promise.

 

[SanDust]

You will be not so pleasantly surprised how "thick" the offerings will really be. The only mainstream EV expected next year is the Focus - again available mostly in places where Leaf is available.

In late 2012 we can expect some Toyota, Honda offerings. But probably again mainly in CA - afterall they are mainly trying to fulfill new CARB regulations from 2012.

I agree that we won't see any of these cars sold in any volume at all until 2013 at the earliest. There is only one car company which is truly serious about EVs and that's Nissan. GM is kinda serious. Nissan is really serious. Everyone else is doing it because they figure it's insurance just in case their notion that it won't work is wrong. LOL

Yeah the timing of the emails with the delivery presentations was a screwup -- it changed the story line completely -- but let's keep in perspective that even if Nissan can only deliver 5k cars this year -- and I'm not saying this will be the case just that it won't be any less than that -- this is still more EVs than we've seen over the last hundred years. New technology always has some unexpected bumps. A little patience is in order.

 

[mitch672]

Mitch, I thought that the EV Project was to begin 7/1/2010 and run for a year and a half. That would require that the 5,700 Leafs be in the hands of participants by the end of June. Not likely that will happen. For example, my son is a participant in the EV Project and has a February order date. Is Nissan under any legal constraints to deliver the 5,700 Leafs or is The Government spending billions only on promise by nissan that may or may not happen.

Perhaps Nissan canceled Tier 2 so that it would have the cars neccessary to complete their promise.

Even if the EV project is delayed a bit, yes, Nissan is a partner in the project, and needs to deliver the cars. If the Project has to be extended, I'm sure it will be. The tier 2 states have nothing to do with the EV project commitment, and therefore are not important. Once Nissan delivers the EV project cars, they will continue to deliver cars in those states, because the infrastructure is already on place... Also probably why they will open reservations again mid next year.... It's certainly not for tier 2 of tier 3 states.

 

[Grant]

Arlington, eh? I thought Kevin and I were the only ones in Northern Virginia. Welcome to the club!

So that's by my count 3 active in VA, 2 in NC and 2 in FL, right?

Hi, I'm in Northern Virginia also. I did NOT receive the email about the delay (or any other update recently). I pre-ordered on 4/20. Did everyone in VA receive it?

 

[garygid]

If you want EVs in your area "sooner", work with the PUs and state/local agencies in your area to make your area "ready" for EVs and the associated infrastructure.

 

[TimeHorse]

That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it. Now, go ahead and prove me wrong.

Why were only Arizona, California, Tennessee, Oregon, Washington, Texas and District of Columbia chosen as launch markets?

(Emphasis mine.) And there's your proof, because D.C. is part of the eye-poked 8. We ain't getting no LEAFs until December 2011 at the earliest.

And lest we forget, the eye-poked 8 are now in the same boat as the forgotten 36: we're effectively ordering the same car. The only difference is we start 3 or so months earlier than you.

 

[TimeHorse]

Arlington, eh? I thought Kevin and I were the only ones in Northern Virginia. Welcome to the club!

So that's by my count 3 active in VA, 2 in NC and 2 in FL, right?

Hi, I'm in Northern Virginia also. I did NOT receive the email about the delay (or any other update recently). I pre-ordered on 4/20. Did everyone in VA receive it?

Check your spam folder. If Arlington is out, I can't imagine any part of Virginia is in except maybe Alexandria City. Technically I've heard from no-one in the District, but we have someone in the close Maryland suburbs also report receiving the letter. And I'm in Fairfax County. Technically, I've heard nothing from any D.C. residents, so it may actually be the eye-poked 7 with the District still in, but I highly doubt that given that there are no Nissan Dealerships in the District so they'd have to buy out of state anyway. So if Maryland and VA got it, I'm sure you did to, so check your spam folder.

 

[kmp647]

Arlington, eh? I thought Kevin and I were the only ones in Northern Virginia. Welcome to the club!

So that's by my count 3 active in VA, 2 in NC and 2 in FL, right?

Hi, I'm in Northern Virginia also. I did NOT receive the email about the delay (or any other update recently). I pre-ordered on 4/20. Did everyone in VA receive it?

Grant , double check your email and spam box

would be interesting to see why you didnt get it
wouldnt get your hopes up

anything else unusual about your reservation or location

did you use your home address in N va on your reservation?>

 

[kmp647]

Hey if infrastructure is what they want I will put a L2 station in at my work
Heck I work right next to a chevy store, they otta have L2 soon

 

[garygid]

Areas and states that demonstrate being EV-friendly have generally passed laws to facilitate the EV purchase and Infrastructure. Some examples:

No Sales Tax on EVs
Large Rebate on EV purchase
Law allows non-PU to sell e-fuel
Offers "free" EVSEs or Rebates
Instant on-line Permits for EVSE install
Businesses providing charging locations
Grants for EV infrastructure

These are a few of the "indicators".

Many areas simply did not respond "with the money" to become one of the First-Five states.

 

[tps]

If you want EVs in your area "sooner", work with the PUs and state/local agencies in your area to make your area "ready" for EVs and the associated infrastructure.

The wheels of government grind slowly; I doubt there's much that could be done at this point which would speed up the delivery schedule for the next year... IMHO the efforts of today might result in an effect in a couple years, at best.

 

[hodad66]

Economy anyone? Many states are simply wondering how
they are going to keep operating..... except for California
where accounting and budget balancing are absurd.

 

[TimeHorse]

Areas and states that demonstrate being EV-friendly have generally passed laws to facilitate the EV purchase and Infrastructure. Some examples:

And no Personal Property tax on EVs. That would be an indicator, right? Oh, wait, they have that in Virginia!

And a $5000 rebate on EVs. That seems necessary, right? Oh, wait, they have that in Georgia!

The eye-poked 8 aren't as ill-prepared as you might think.