Thinking about buying a used Leaf

[MMatt30]

Hi!

I live in Atlanta, Ga. I'm in the market for a second car as my '05 Chevy Equinox is pretty dilapidated. My other vehicle is a '12 Dodge Caravan which we will hold on to. My daily commute is 14 miles round trip. I've been shopping around looking for the best bargains and it looks like Leaf's are really cheap used. A place near me has numerous ones recently off lease many with low mileage (Less than 30K) Prices range from $6500-$13,000.

I understand about 12 bars being max capacity and should be one of the big things when purchasing one. Most range from 12-10 bars. Most of the models are the base mode S's although a few of the SL's and SV's are on the lot but command more money. Any advice you Leaf veterans could give me ? I don't plan to upgrade my 120v outlet. I will trickle charge. Will a 6.6 charging make any difference in time? I won't try to use the vehicle to go on extended trips as I will use the ICE vehicle for that. Just simply to work and local errands etc. Thinking about trying to make the purchase right after the first of the year.

Thanks again.

 

[WetEV]

My daily commute is 14 miles round trip.

Make sure there are no other significant loads on the 120V circuit you plan to use. Might want to have an electrician check it out, and perhaps install a heavy duty outlet. With a commute of 14 miles, 120V "L1" charging aka trickle charge should work just fine. 240V "L2" charging is a lot faster: but you have all night. I've got an L2, and the ability to charge faster is nice, but not necessary.

 

[MMatt30]

My daily commute is 14 miles round trip.

Make sure there are no other significant loads on the 120V circuit you plan to use. Might want to have an electrician check it out, and perhaps install a heavy duty outlet. With a commute of 14 miles, 120V "L1" charging aka trickle charge should work just fine. 240V "L2" charging is a lot faster: but you have all night. I've got an L2, and the ability to charge faster is nice, but not necessary.

I have standard two plug 15a outlets in two locations in the garage. One on the left, one on the center. However, I do have one singular 20a outlet with the sideways "T" shape that I assume is on it's on circuit on the right hand wall. However, you know what happens when you assume lol.

What issues may occur with other devices plugged up along with the Leaf? Overloading I'm guessing.

 

[WetEV]

I have standard two plug 15a outlets in two locations in the garage. One on the left, one on the center. However, I do have one singular 20a outlet with the sideways "T" shape that I assume is on it's on circuit on the right hand wall. However, you know what happens when you assume lol.

What issues may occur with other devices plugged up along with the Leaf? Overloading I'm guessing.

Overloading, yes, the Leaf with the provided L1 charging cable draws the maximum continuous current allowed by code on a "15 Amp circuit", which is 12 Amps. Your 20 Amp circuit if wired to code would carry 16 Amps continuous.

 

[LeftieBiker]

All Leafs with OEM EVSEs charge at the same rate on 120 volts, so the 6.6kw onboard charger only comes into play when you are "opportunity charging" away from home. Then it will usually charge the car twice as fast as a 3.3kw Leaf. I find the car charges 1% every two minutes at most commercial charging stations.

 

[jjeff]

All Leafs with OEM EVSEs charge at the same rate on 120 volts, so the 6.6kw onboard charger only comes into play when you are "opportunity charging" away from home. Then it will usually charge the car twice as fast as a 3.3kw Leaf. I find the car charges 1% every two minutes at most commercial charging stations.

+1 or a little less than 1% every 3 minutes with a 3.3kw Leaf.

 

[Reddy]

In Atlanta I would go with the "cheaper" vs "lower miles" option if you have a choice. Given the heat-induced battery degradation, you should expect less than 50 mi range for a 5 year old Leaf. With a 14 mi RT commute, you're fine for a long time and L1 (120V) charging will work fine as well (you can easily average 40 mi/day on L1). Just make sure you check your receptacle and don't hang the "brick" on the receptacle. I've been using L1 for over 5+ years with NO problems, but I replaced all of the receptacles in my 1960's house and made sure all of the connections were properly tightened. Finally, I semi-permanently hang the EVSE brick and cord in a manner that doesn't put any stress on the receptacle. I only take it with me on long trips. Finally, you should search for the thread describing fires that have been caused by L1 charging. They are not common, but probably the reason Nissan doesn't recommend using L1 except for emergencies. If unsure about electricity or checking your receptacles, use a licensed electrician.

 

[Jedlacks]

I live in a suburb of Atlanta and I will offer the simple advice to read this forum in great detail. It took me two years of being on the fence before I bought a used SV, and I have never been happier. Doing the right thing may not take as long, but it would involve talking to one of the veterans on here for at least two hours. After the talk is done, then it is all about finding the right car for the right money.

In the end you will be a statistician, a chemical engineer, an economist, a pseudo cartographer, a pessimist and an optimist.

 

[wikki]

I live over in SC and just recently purchased a used Leaf from BMVW in Union City, GA. Go check those guys out. They have the largest inventory I've seen and pretty good prices.

After just a week or so in i'm very pleased with my car. I generally drive less than 20 miles a day, so even some pretty serious battery degradation isn't going to be much of an issue for me.

As far as charging goes the 120 V charger is very slow, adding about 4 miles of range for each hour of charge. You also need to have a dedicated grounded outlet. My old 1953 era house this was an issue, but I knew that going in. Sounds like you are OK in that dept.

I also added a 240V 50A outlet and a Juicebox EVSE, that will charge my max 6.6KW, and add about 25 miles of range per hour of charging. If you rely on the 120V charger you're going to be out of luck for a while if say you run your car down early on a Saturday morning. That being said a lot of people use the 120V charger and get along just fine. If you could top off at work or something you would be in even better shape. I have access to an outlet at work and am able to do that.

This quote is very true, there is a ton of information here and on other sites to help you out as well.

In the end you will be a statistician, a chemical engineer, an economist, a pseudo cartographer, a pessimist and an optimist.

Good luck!

 

[craig]

I bought my 2014 Leaf S as a off-lease car from Georgia. It has 21k miles, and at 23k, still shows 12 bars. When fully charged, the GOM (guess o' meter) shows a projected range of 94 miles, which I have actually achieved. I have the QC with the onboard 6.6kw charger. If all of your charging is going to be done at home on a 110v circuit, the 3.3kw charger will be fine.
We had decent weather when I traded in the Smart ED for the Leaf, and I could get 93 miles around town with 6% charge remaining (not that I make a habit of drawing the battery down that far) when driving in Eco mode.
Now that the cold is here (app 25-35 degrees F) I run with the heater on and not in Eco (the heater works better) and can still get in the 75 mile range or so.
I generally charge it at night, when my Clipper Creek LCS-25 charges it up from very low to full in about five hours.
My previous electric, the Smart ED, was charged L1, and it worked all right, but I went to the EVSE to get the shorter charge times for when I have a full day and do a lot of running around town.
When I went electric for my main car my electric bill went up by about $30 a month, but I no longer spend $125 a month on gasoline. I don't think we have put gas in our SUV in three months.
These cars are a hoot.
Welcome.

 

[btomescu]

Hello,

I do not want to hijack this thread , just have a similar question. I am about to buy a 2013 Leaf QC 12 bars with 31k miles. Is it possible that these bars have been tempered with, is there a way to know? Is there anything else I shpuld pay attention to? Is it true that charging from regular wall outlet could result in a afire ?! :-\
For "veterans" here given all that you know is it worth it to buy, with the range and battery replacement costs, for 7k (my commute is about 10 miles) ?
Thank you

Bruno

 

[MMatt30]

In Atlanta I would go with the "cheaper" vs "lower miles" option if you have a choice.

Could you give me a little insight on this as I do have those options.

 

[Jedlacks]

Hello,

I do not want to hijack this thread , just have a similar question. I am about to buy a 2013 Leaf QC 12 bars with 31k miles. Is it possible that these bars have been tempered with, is there a way to know? Is there anything else I shpuld pay attention to? Is it true that charging from regular wall outlet could result in a afire ?! :-\
For "veterans" here given all that you know is it worth it to buy, with the range and battery replacement costs, for 7k (my commute is about 10 miles) ?
Thank you

Bruno

Out of respect for people like cwerdna, GRA, DNAinagoodway, and leftiebiker to name a few, I am not a veteran! I lurked for awhile, but they may be the true early adopters.

With that clarified, everybody's case is different. Depending on your climate and how hard you flog it, you could end up liking the savings and the lack of servicing. I believe that a used Leaf less than a year old at 45-50% of the MSRP is the best deal. Just like all other cars, you will be under water from the start. I also believe that the SV or the SL (if you like leather) made in late 2014 and after will be good. Oh, don't go by what the dealer says on the advertisement, just look at the inner door jamb for the actual build date.

My Leaf is not my long distance driver. I live just outside Atlanta, and we have family in Toronto and South Florida. Once a year or two we drive there, but we use the SUV for that. If you are happy with the Leaf being a city car, then it is for you. Some people buy it to drive 60-70 miles one way to work. At that rate it may not last as long as you hope. Again, it is a city car, and most cities are not that wide.

The 120 V plug is for temporary/emergency use only. Mine is not even in the car, because Atlanta has more than enough emergency stops. I bought the Juicebox 40 and had an electrician install a 50amp plug in the garage. I leave for work at 5 am, and the car is always ready to go. I bought the car in May and I have put on about 12,000 miles already. My commute to work in 25 miles one way, and there is charging station there. An hour worth of charge costs me 85 cents. Even if this battery degrades to 50% i will still be able to drive it to work. If you drive 7 miles...lol... you could drive this for 10 years or more.

Now the convenience of not changing the oil is worth some money. I also HATED stopping to buy gas in the morning or on my way home, and that is also worth some money.

 

[WetEV]

I am about to buy a 2013 Leaf QC 12 bars with 31k miles. Is it possible that these bars have been tempered with, is there a way to know?

Where was the car? What city/state? 2013 with 31k miles in Seattle 12 bars is expected. 2013 with 31k miles in Phoenix AZ, is unlikely.

Is it true that charging from regular wall outlet could result in a afire ?! :-\

If the outlet isn't up to code, or is badly worn, yes perhaps. Make sure the circuit is correctly wired, wire is the correct size, fuse or breaker are the correct size, and perhaps install a heavy duty outlet, suggest a licensed professional electrician if you are the slightest bit concerned about this.

For "veterans" here given all that you know is it worth it to buy, with the range and battery replacement costs, for 7k (my commute is about 10 miles) ?

Financially, depends on climate and electric rate. However, an electric saves time and bother. No gas station stops. No oil changes. Saving time and bother is worth something.

The 120 V plug is for temporary/emergency use only.

A lot of people use the 120V charging cord that comes with the car at home, and mostly charge at home.

 

[Reddy]

In Atlanta I would go with the "cheaper" vs "lower miles" option if you have a choice.

Could you give me a little insight on this as I do have those options.

The low mileage driver (10-20 mi/day) will never get the same "value" per mile driven as a high mileage driver. After 10 years in Atlanta, it won't matter whether you purchased a 2013 with 10,000 mi or 30,000 mi since both will have likely degraded to the same point. So I recommend that you purchase at the lowest price point (for the options that you consider important) to get the most value. Everyone's needs/wants are different. For me back in 2011, I wasn't interested in Carwings or smart phone access but I did want cruise control and the backup camera all of which required the high end package. Recently, I used the smart phone access and really liked it (unfortunately it's been turned off now until I pay $200 for a newer, non-2G cellular receiver). The Leaf options and packaging have changed dramatically since 2011. Pick the things that are important to you and go with it. Just remember that your enjoyment of EV driving will increase, you'll want to drive farther, but the battery will degrade. Expect that you'll want a new EV in about 4 years.

 

[SageBrush]

In Atlanta I would go with the "cheaper" vs "lower miles" option if you have a choice.

Could you give me a little insight on this as I do have those options.

My used LEAF is expected end of next week. The broker I am buying from only buys LEAFS with 12 bars of battery health, but is super transparent and volunteers the LEAF-spy car information to any interested customer.

The first car he offered was a two year old lease that had lived in GA. Even though it had 12 bars of battery health, battery capacity was down to ~ 50 Ahr, to around 17 kWh, and around 70 miles range according to LEAFspy. I asked for a car with a healthier battery that had lived in the temperate climate of N. California (where he sources most of his cars.) He found a car 10 months older with almost brand new battery health: 21.7 kWh and over 60 Ahr. It was also cheaper because the car was older LOL.

Moral of the story: the battery bar meter is inadequate information to secure the best deal and perhaps to even know if the car meets the use requirements. A smart LEAF purchase demands knowing the battery capacity of the car, and an informed use case that estimates the battery degradation rate.

This is why LEAFs depreciate so fast: Uninformed buyers are a setup for disappointment.

 

[btomescu]

way to work. At that rate it may not last as long as you hope. Again, it is a city car, and most cities are not that wide.

The 120 V plug is for temporary/emergency use only. Mine is not even in the car, because Atlanta has more than enough emergency stops. I bought the Juicebox 40 and had an electrician install a 50amp plug in the garage. I leave for work at 5 am, and the car is always ready to go. I bought the car in May and I have put on about 12,000 miles already. My commute to work in 25 miles one way, and there is charging station there. An hour worth of charge costs me 85 cents. Even if this battery degrades to 50% i will still be able to drive it to work. If you drive 7 miles...lol... you could drive this for 10 years or more.

Now the convenience of not changing the oil is worth some money. I also HATED stopping to buy gas in the morning or on my way home, and that is also worth some money.

Thank you for your advice and considerations. It's clearer to me now that the savings or tco won't be as high, considering the inevitable battery degradation. I do appreciate your input, may you have a pleasant commute today

 

[btomescu]

Moral of the story: the battery bar meter is inadequate information to secure the best deal and perhaps to even know if the car meets the use requirements. A smart LEAF purchase demands knowing the battery capacity of the car, and an informed use case that estimates the battery degradation rate.

This is why LEAFs depreciate so fast: Uninformed buyers are a setup for disappointment.

Than you for your reply. It was really helpful, now I am going to wait for the odb2 bluetooth (for leaf spy) before going for the test drive.
What is the number (Ahr?) that I should be getting to know if the battery is in a decent shape?
Thanks!

 

[btomescu]

I am about to buy a 2013 Leaf QC 12 bars with 31k miles. Is it possible that these bars have been tempered with, is there a way to know?

Where was the car? What city/state? 2013 with 31k miles in Seattle 12 bars is expected. 2013 with 31k miles in Phoenix AZ, is unlikely.

Is it true that charging from regular wall outlet could result in a afire ?! :-\

If the outlet isn't up to code, or is badly worn, yes perhaps. Make sure the circuit is correctly wired, wire is the correct size, fuse or breaker are the correct size, and perhaps install a heavy duty outlet, suggest a licensed professional electrician if you are the slightest bit concerned about this.

For "veterans" here given all that you know is it worth it to buy, with the range and battery replacement costs, for 7k (my commute is about 10 miles) ?

Financially, depends on climate and electric rate. However, an electric saves time and bother. No gas station stops. No oil changes. Saving time and bother is worth something.

The 120 V plug is for temporary/emergency use only.

A lot of people use the 120V charging cord that comes with the car at home, and mostly charge at home.

the car was leased for 3 years in IN. I guess that should be considered mild, relatively?

For the financial angle : I live in the Detroit area, night rate about 8c/kWh , I read that what damages the batteries is the heat, most of all (and simply the age, less so the QuickCharging). I gues my climate and rate qualifies for being say neutral?

 

[LeftieBiker]

You should assume that the 12 bars showing will soon be 11.