Think City EV

[mitch672]

American Modern Insurance Group

http://www.amig.com/index.html

Thanks for all of the specialty insurance leads, American only does collectible vehicles, using them for commuting is not covered... Perhaps this is telling me something, if no one will insure it for a reasonable price, might be best to pass on the Th!nk.

 

[redLEAF]

(works in Lowell, lives in Nashua).

Interesting I did that for many years, before moving to Dallas area.

Yes, I know off topic but I had gone to college there as well (Daniel Webster College) years ago so knew the area pretty well so it's nice to go back ... still a bit jealous of him as his commute is even shorter than mine despite living in one state and traveling to another like he does.

Last comment on the whole insurance thing ... my insurer allows me to use the car 'occasionally' to travel to work in it but as you said, not a main commuter so that wouldn't work for you. I wouldn't consider a '99 Miata a collector car by any means (it's only 13 years old) but being a roadster I guess it helps. We also store it winters and typically drive less than 4 to 5K miles per year (although again they don't care about mileage so if we wanted to travel to an out of state rally, etc. that would have been fine). If mainstream insurer's won't cover it I'd probably shy away as well ...

 

[Rokeby]

Let us know what you think, I'm a bigger guy and I'm wondering how easy the
ingress/egress is for the driver.. For example, I have no issues getting into my
2010 Prius, but I basically could not get into the drivers seat on a 2012 Volt,
I had to get in head first and slide... The clearance is a lot less on the Volt than
the Prius..

I did get over to Eurostar and test drove the THINK City, twice in fact.

As to ease of entry, I'm 6' 1", 215 lbs, and I had a companion 6' 2", 265 lbs, and
we had no trouble with ingress/egress. I drive an '08 Prius and I'd say access is
about the same, maybe slightly easier in the THINK.

If I can find someone to insure the Think (for a reasonable price,
$3,600/year is not reasonable), I may get down their for a test drive myself...
No one seems to have one in my state (MA)

The insurance difficulties may have to do with air bags. It has only two, driver
and passenger. Here's a data sheet they had on insurance. I don't see it as very
helpful as it is for the Elkhart, IN area:

http://i.imgur.com/pgzWt.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll be posting more info on my visit shortly.

Just for fun, here's a short video of a race prepared THINK -- roll cage, racing
mirror, passenger seat removed, different tires? -- overtaking and passing what
appears to be a Miata on the rain slicked Brands Hatch race course. I know, it
doesn't prove a thing, but but the car and driver seem unperturbed by the
conditions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xflrAEc4fBQ&feature=player_embedded#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;!

[EDIT] More info on this:

[EDIT] More info on this:
"Superb handling is this car's secret weapon. The THINK City has incredible
amounts of grip, is exceptionally stable and is very easy to drive fast. The first time
I drove a City, I was driving on a test track used by manufacturers to test a cars
handling and dynamics. On the city driving circuit, this little car was undoubtedly
the fastest car I had ever driven around the route thanks to its incredible poise and
handling. The car could cope with sudden changes of direction at speed as quickly
as I could turn the steering wheel.

Despite its relatively low performance, the top speed only just touches 70mph
(112km/h), the THINK City is an astonishingly good car to drive. In Sweden, where the
car is now made, it is building a reputation as a rally car and it is quite possibly the
best handling small car in the world. For 2011, a race version of the car has been built
which will compete in the EV Cup world race series."
From: BeGreen Think City Review

And, Jay Leno's luke warm review/test drive

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

the insurance issue is confusing to me. if its authorized for street use, insurance is required so i would simply get another insurance company.

i insured my Zenn with minimal issues. sure, my insurance company did not have Zenn's in their database, had no idea what an NEV was but assured me that if it could be licensed, they would insure it, PERIOD.

as far as the issues, i had the exact same issues when insuring the Leaf. apparently at the time, outside this forum and a few others, the Leaf was just as much of an unknown as the Zenn was

 

[Rokeby]

My visit to the Eurostar THINK City dealership in Randallstown, MD.

The THINK is an assault on your sensibilities from the very beginning. It is disorienting
to see these cars at a dealership whose stock in trade is second hand luxury cars with
Ferraris, Maseratis, Mercedes, a Bentley, and even a Acura NSX on the premises.

First off it is a small car; only two seats, take it or leave it. (The Euro version of the car
does have back seats.)

Also, there is the matter of the exterior body panels; they are made of matte finish ABS
plastic. They resemble a large Play School toy. My first reaction was, Is this for real?
The claimed benefit is that the panels are flexible and absorb and rebound from the
inevitable bumps and insults in a closely spaced urban environment. Further, even if
deeply scratched, the color is constant, and refinishing is unnecessary. This is either a
real world inspired innovation or a short-cut. It can be difficult to remember that the
skin of a car, metal or plastic adds little to crash worthiness and survivability.

Then there is the matter of the minimalist interior appointments. I'm not talking about
equipment, the car has lots of amenities::
"AIR CONDITIONING ...POWER WINDOWS ...POWER MIRRORS...
(All extra-cost options on Euro spec cars)
AM-FM-CD PLAYER (Sony aftermarket with USB port)…
REMOTE KEYS WITH ALARM...REMOTE TRUNK OPENER...CARPET MATS...CUP HOLDERS...
CARGO NET"

No, I'm talking about the layout and presentation. Think of Scandinavian furniture
design extended to a car. I'm talking about a spartan, intentionally minimalist,
monk-like simplicity. There are few if any concessions to style. All surfaces are plastic,
not even a nod to soft surfaces. There is a glove box shelf, but no door. Window controls
are on the center console. Two, fold-out two piece cup holders, one on each side of the
center console. The seats are thinish, but firm; and narrow with little or no side bolsters
on seat bottom and back. Plenty of leg room for a 6'2" driver/passenger. The cargo space
has a flat floor with some storage beneath and two netted cargo pockets on the sides.
There is no provision for a pull-out cargo tonneau cover. I did not operate the heating/
air conditioning system. (Note: I was told that here is new, more efficient heater on the
way which will be retro-fitted or provided to buyers for installation in the near future.)

There is no provision for L3 charging.

Depending on your personal tastes, the interior is either super clean, or severely harsh.

So, what is this car all about? Purely low cost, no-nonsense transportation over short by
conventional ICE car distances. If the claimed good weather range of 100 miles
is valid, it's range is better than the i(MiEV) and equal to the LEAF. Of course, YMMV.

I will admit that I know nothing about international vehicle construction, financing, etc,
and the THINK situation in particular, so the following may be a bit confused.
Anyway, here's what I think I was told:

THINK as a global concern still exists. It has been purchased lock stock and barrel by a
Russian entrepreneur. The home office is being moved to Munich. There still is some
vestigial THINK USA component in Elkhart (or was that Michigan?) with a warehouse full
of parts for repairs, etc. The Eurostar concern purchased 100, 2011 MY cars from THINK.
(Ten other cars were purchased by and have been sold by a California concern)
These 100 cars are the entire stock of USA 1st Generation THINK City cars. There is an
intention to build a larger, more expensive, second generation car at a yet to be built/
identified Asian facility as a 2014 or '15 MY car. The picture I was shown of this car looked
exactly like the THINK Ox concept car pictures on the Inter-web:

Driving the car:
Quiet like the LEAF that I've test driven. No squeaks or rattles. I got it up to 60 on a rolling
country road. (Top speed is quoted as 70 MPH. The salesman said he got his car up to 77 MPH,
"on a slight downgrade." I had two test drives, one with the salesman, and one with my
companion for the day. On the second drive I was let's just say, l little more assertive with my
control inputs.

I wasn't able to induce a real surge of power from either a full stop or while
underway. The car accelerates like it is on the end of a long rubber band. I'd say that the
acceleration was not unlike what I ask of my Gen II Prius which I drive for "pretty good" FE for
a lifetime, 65K miles, of 50.2 MPGs. The ride was remarkably smooth for the short wheelbase,
not unlike the Scion IQ that I test drove recently. Four wheel independent suspension and all
that. I wasn't able to find a really broken up or corrugated road surface. (We had a very mild
winter this year with little chance for frost heaves or other serious road surface degradation.)

The car has two driving modes, D and E. In either I wasn't able to get a clear indication of
getting regen or finding a Prius-like "no arrows glide." There is an analog, needle-type power
use gauge with a regen range, but I wasn't able to get the needle into the regen range. We did
feel a distinctly different feel of forward motion being retarded when I took my foot off the
go-pedal when in E compared to D. I'm grudging willing to attribute this matter to my
unfamiliarity with the THINK and my go-pedal only regen experience with my Prius. I don't
know, maybe all or most of the regen is in the brake pedal circuitry.

Last week, Aerostar sold its first three cars, all full cash transactions to members of the
Washington DC EV car club.
FWIW, there seems to be some issue with conventional vehicle purchase lenders and the THINK.
Eurostar hasn't been able to advertise on AutoTrader yet because THINK isn't on their list of USA
OEM vehicle manufacturers. They're working on correcting this and expect interest/sales to
jump when it has been accomplished.

Maintenance and service? First service is due at 40K miles. It's mostly a brake system check.
No mention of HV battery check. Where this would be done for buyers from other areas wasn't
made clear.

Parts? Some of the unidentified parts under the hood were clearly marked FoMoCo. But whether
they are US or Euro spec I can't say. Allegedly there are parts galore "in the warehouse." Actual
ready availability remains to be determined.

If you have more questions, or need more detailed info/clarification I'm not the one to ask, talk
to Eurostar's THINK guru/salesman, Tom Markides at:

http://www.eurostarautos.com/inventory.cfml?rmake=THINK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My companion and I spent an enjoyable and most informative hour and a half at Eurostar.
Every question that I asked was answered without hesitation or apparent evasion. At no time
did I fell like I was getting a run around. I just have to say again that information about the
current situation vis-a-vis THINK International, THINK USA, and future development was way
over my head.

Disclaimers:
I have no interest whatsoever, financial or otherwise, in either the THINK City car or Eurostar.
I have not independently verified or validated any of the information provided by Eurostar.
All observations and opinions are solely mine alone, made without any offer of reward or
compensation.

 

[reeler]

I couldn't resist and ordered one. They can be had for $18-21K depending on the state you live with ZEV states being cheaper. My contact was Doug at Green Wheels in Illinois at 847-642-2100.

USAA insured the car for $43/month as a second car. They didn't have the car in their system and listed the Make as Ford.

This will end up costing me less than $10K after incentives with this being titled for CA. Heck the battery is worth at least that if I were to pull it and use it in a conversion.

Plus, I think it will one day be a collectors item since so few were ever sold. My VIN is in the two hundreds so I am guessing that there were only a few hundred of these ever made. Like owning a Tucker or Avanti.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I couldn't resist and ordered one. They can be had for $18-21K depending on the state you live. My contact was Doug at Green Wheels in Illinois.

USAA insured the car for $43/month as a second car.

This will end up costing me less than $10K after incentives. Plus, I think it will one day be a collectors item since so few were ever sold.

WTG!! are you getting the LI upgrade?

 

[redLEAF]

I couldn't resist and ordered one. They can be had for $18-21K depending on the state you live. My contact was Doug at Green Wheels in Illinois.

USAA insured the car for $43/month as a second car.

This will end up costing me less than $10K after incentives. Plus, I think it will one day be a collectors item since so few were ever sold.

Sounds like you might live in IL as well? If so, I'd check with IL EPA to make sure they'll give you the EV rebate unless you already did?; it already meets the IL dealer requirement (based on your post). As I said earlier, we saw a red one tooling around this past winter but you'll be one of the few as it is:

"Electric vehicles that qualify for the “Vehicle Rebate” in Section 2 below include the following: Nissan Leaf, Chevrolet Volt, Mitsubishi i-MiEV, Ford Focus Electric, and Ford/Azure Transit Connect Electric. To inquire about the eligibility status of other types of electric vehicles not listed, please call us at (217) 557-1441."

 

[EVWannabe]

Contemplating here. I just got a quote from Travelers, $455./year full coverage. That's adding the Think as our third vehicle.

Reeler, I'm wondering where you are finding these for $18-21.k before incentives?!

EVWannabe

 

[reeler]

Reeler, I'm wondering where you are finding these for $18-21.k before incentives?!

Doug at Green Wheels in Illinois http://greenwheelschicago.com/2011_Th!nk_City_142636964.veh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; call 847-642-2100

 

[mitch672]

Just wanted to thank all of the posters in the thread, in the end I decided to just go with the Plug in Prius I had on order. FYI, there is also a Think City Yahoo group , for those interested:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/think_ev/messages" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[GRA]

My visit to the Eurostar THINK City dealership in Randallstown, MD.

The THINK is an assault on your sensibilities from the very beginning. It is disorienting
to see these cars at a dealership whose stock in trade is second hand luxury cars with
Ferraris, Maseratis, Mercedes, a Bentley, and even a Acura NSX on the premises.

<snip>

Thanks for the report on the current version of the Think City. I was able to rent a pre-production 1st gen. model for a week back in '97 or '98 in the S.F. Bay Area, and it seems they've made quite a few improvements and upgrades. The car I drove then had numerous faults and problems, and while some of them were the sort of thing that development is intended to sort out, others never should have gotten as far as they did. When I turned the car back in I handed the rep a 6 page report of what worked, what didn't, and where improvements needed to be made. If anyone's interested, here's the highlights, as best I remember.

First, for a car intended to be an urban warrior, I thought the thermoplastic body panels were a great idea. You really didn't care if they got scratched or scuffed, and it seemed like you could take a 2-lb sledge to them and they'd bounce back (note, I didn't try this, and FAIK the panel might have cracked). If you get your jollies polishing a car till it shines this is not the surface you want, but for a car that you can park anywhere and not worry about getting dinged by car doors, shopping carts, errant skateboard/bikers and the like, this stuff is ideal. In short, it's utilitarian, not fancy.

I'm very aware of ergonomics, and had a lot to say about them. I'm 6'0", 180 (more like 170 then) but have a 34" inseam. I don't remember any issues getting in or out, except as follows. Your mention of the flat, narrow seats makes me wonder if my report had some effect. The rep stated that they hoped to sell the car for $13-15k (back then). Yet for some reason, all the demos they were renting out were equipped with a pair of Recaro seats, retail about $500-$700 ea. at the time. I mentioned that for a urban car, where handling was essentially irrelevant and which would be used for short trips requiring frequent entrances and exits, it made no sense whatsoever to install seats with aggressive back and thigh bolsters and that level of support, especially as it made it necessary to worm your way between the bottom of the wheel and the bolsters when getting in and out.

In addition, the Recaro seat backs were very high and had square corners. As the car was quite narrow there was virtually no room between the seats (and no room for arm rests), so the only way to throw something like a jacket in the back when you were in the car was to reach over the very high seat back, an awkward move. Getting something out of the back with someone in the passenger seat was virtually impossible without hitting them in the face with an elbow or becoming a contortionist. I suggested they should install fairly flat seats with relatively narrow backs and low and/or sloping shoulders to improve access, covered with an inexpensive (i.e. cloth or leatherette), long-wearing, low-maintenance material with moderate friction. I don't remember if they had it then, but I think I told them that a driver's-side release on the passenger's seat back would also come in handy.

There was minimal equipment in the car, just an AM/FM radio (it probably had a cassette but I don't remember), a manual heater/defroster/vent, no a/c and no power accessories. This was fine with me, but here was one of the worst 'never should have got this far' design muffs. The car had manual windows, which work fine especially in a narrow car with non-opening rear windows. But whoever designed the door put the window crank so far forward, and sculpted the door panel in such a way, that if you took a normal grip on the crank handle by making an 'O' with your thumb and fingers you'd smack your knuckles on the underside of the dash every time around. The crank was also quite stiff (presumably this was just a pre-production issue), which meant that every time the crank came near the knuckle smacking position you had to change your grip to just your thumb and the tip of your index finger, then use your right hand under your left wrist to force the crank past the point of knuckle impact before resuming with the normal grip for the next semi-rotation. I told them whoever okayed that setup had never sat in the car and used the crank, and deserved to be fired.

You mentioned the flat floor all the way across (with maybe a very slight rise in the middle?). This meant that you couldn't throw junk that would roll or slide on the floor in the passenger footwell, because it was likely to roll/slide right behind the pedals (ISTR they jutted up from the floor like an old VW Beetle) and block them at an inopportune moment. I don't recall any cupholders.

Edit: Re-reading your post reminded me of something else. The car had a split window in the hatch, divided by a horizontal line. I didn't think this did anything for the rear view, indeed the split view was distracting. More critically, glass all the way down to the load floor combined with the lack of a cargo cover meant that any valuables you had in the car were in plain sight to any smash and grab thief, unless you had a jacket, blanket or similar to cover them with (which would itself attract attention from thieves). Not smart for an urban car.

You didn't mention it, so I don't know whether they improved it or you just spent less time in the car and didn't notice it. As mentioned the car's quite narrow, and the wheel wells protruded quite a way into the footwells limiting foot room. As a result, the pedals were offset to the right requiring you to sit a bit sidesaddle, like older Saabs.

The driver's position was otherwise okay, and ISTR the car had oodles of headroom, i.e. 'LBJ wearing a Stetson' clearance. IIRR the steering wheel tilted but didn't telescope. Unfortunately, I found that with the wheel adjusted to a comfortable position for me, it was impossible to see the speedometer. To get a view of that it was necessary to tilt the wheel up so that its angle was close to that of a bus. I suggested they needed to use a larger diameter wheel (which would have required raising the steering column), let it telescope, or move the speedo.

Driving characteristics. I consider handling almost irrelevant for a city car, but ride and steering response critical. Like any car with an ultra-short wheelbase, the Think pitched on freeway heaves. However, since the car wasn't insured to run on freeways (see below), I spent a lot of time on frontage roads and city streets heavily traveled by trucks, encountering lots of potholes, bumps, waves, and railroad tracks. The car's ride was completely unacceptable - it road just like a golf cart, which would have been okay on grass or smooth cart tracks. On these streets the suspension felt like it was regularly crashing into the bump stops, delivering an impact to your spine, kidneys and teeth. This crashing had an equivalent aural accompaniment. I'm not sure if this was just poor suspension tuning or if the wheel wells were limited in vertical as well as horizontal space.

I suggested they try an approach such as was used by the not much larger Renault 5 ('Le Car' in the U.S.) and most French cars of the time (my dad had a '76 Peugeot 504 Diesel), i.e. soft compression in the shock/strut with a firm, controlled rebound. This allowed the Le Car and every other French car I rode/drove in at the time to make most pavement irregularities almost unnoticeable. Unfortunately, this also facilitated a lot of roll (i.e. 'cornering on the door handles'), so I recommended that they install some beefy anti-roll bars to avoid that.

A second major problem was the car's steering. The raison d'etre of a short city car is that it can parallel park in spaces too short for regular cars. However, I found the Think to be the hardest car to parallel park of any I've ever driven. I learned to drive and parallel park in a '65 Impala with manual transmission, steering and brakes, and that was a piece of cake by comparison. The issues were as follows: it had a fairly small diameter steering wheel with a fairly fast ratio (~ 3 turns lock to lock IIRC), no power assist, and a response to the accelerator pedal that was anything but linear. I think it also may have suffered from a limited maximum crank angle on the wheels owing to the small, narrow wheel wells.

Trying to parallel park on flat ground, all of these 'features' conspired against it. The small diameter, high ratio un-assisted wheel made it very difficult to turn the wheel while stationary (not that you should). With no power steering you normally only try to turn the wheel while the car is moving. In the case of the Impala, a large diameter wheel with a slow ratio (ca. 6+ turns lock-to-lock) made it possible to park the thing fairly easily, especially if you used an underhand grip to give you extra leverage. In the Think, this was very difficult for me, and would have been impossible for most women.

Making things even worse was the lack of fine response to the accelerator pedal. You wanted the car to be moving so you could turn the wheel, but the power response on flat ground went: Not enough to move the car, not enough to move, not enough to move, whoa! and you were likely to hit whoever was behind or ahead of you. I got in the habit of only parallel parking it if there was an empty space behind the one I was parking in.

The way the typical ICE with an automatic handles the throttle response issue is to provide a high idle setting, so that you can control the car in low speed maneuvers solely with the brake. But that sucks power from a BEV, unless you put a power cutoff when the parking brake is on, the brake pedal is depressed beyond a certain pressure, or put the car in 'P' or 'N'. The Think lacked any of these.

I told them they needed some combination of a larger wheel with a slower ratio or else variable-ratio power steering (the latter being preferable), and high idle power or else finer 'throttle' control.

A second issue with the Think's steering was due to its wide turn radius. Whether due to my inability to get the wheel fully over quickly enough at low speed or else a limited wheel angle owing to narrow wheel wells, I couldn't make a U-turn in the Think in a typical residential street, something which my considerably longer Subaru could do easily -- the Think required a 3-point turn This is an important capability when hunting for a parking space in an area with a shortage of same; anyone who's lived in S.F. can bear me out.

I don't remember for sure now, but I have the impression that the Think could only make a U-turn from a left turn lane if it had three or maybe it was four lanes going the other direction; otherwise it would wind up having to make a three-point turn.

Oh, the car didn't have an ' E' mode, just F-N-R, with IIRR a selector lever that appeared to be the same one used on every electric golf cart I've ever driven.

Re NVH, I've already mentioned the physical and aural assault due to the ride. I don't remember the car as being particularly quiet; you could hear the typical whine from the electric motor, and that got more and more annoying as the week went on. I don't remember it ever getting beyond annoyance to causing ringing in the ears the way the Leaf has done with some people, but susceptibility to that is very individualistic. ISTR it had a fair amount of wind noise as well at freeway speeds.

Construction. Since this was a pre-production car I made allowances for fit and finish; I don't know if the large exterior panel gaps (that can be seen on wiki photos) were an artifact of the thermoplastic panels, something that would be cleaned up for production, or just evidence of a Think quality control inspector who'd been fired from one of the Big Three in the '70s for being too lackadaisical (if that was even possible then). For a city car, I thought tight panel gaps were less important in any case, especially if it allowed you to swap out a damaged panel easily.

Although I wasn't supposed to take the car on the freeway, I didn't have any side roads where I could get it up to speed, so drove it maybe 50 miles round trip across the San Mateo Bridge and back. I don't recall any problems going 55 or 60 even on the incline section, but don't remember if I had it any faster. 50 miles was about as far as I was willing to take the car given my lack of familiarity with it (the rep claimed 70 miles range, but said he could manage 100 using all the tricks), and the instrumentation consisted of a voltmeter and trip odometer plus the one mentioned below.

The car could be charged at 120, or 240 with a pigtail adapter to allow you to connect it to a dryer socket. I had no way to try that out so was limited to L1, another reason for limiting my range as it took forever to fully recharge the thing. I have a vague memory that there was some digital display that counted backwards while charging, to zero range used when the battery was full. ISTR 17 hours or so to full charge, and it would sometimes stop charging short of that for no obvious reason. It would begin again if I unplugged and re-plugged it, so I got in the habit of going outside to check if it was still charging if I got up during the night to use the bathroom.

I found that the limited range and restriction to L1 killed the possibility of a spontaneous second trip, if I'd used most of the range earlier in the day. 3.3kW would have helped somewhat, 6.6 kW would have virtually eliminated the problem.

Public response. I had occasion to drive and park the car at a community college; judging by the squealing variations on 'What a cute little car!' I heard (in those pre Mini-revival days), it definitely had a market among college-age females.

My summary said that while I thought the idea was great and many of the issues could be fixed during development, the car as it currently existed was unsuitable for use on U.S. urban streets. Think needed to make some major design and equipment changes to get the suspension/steering/low-speed power response to acceptable levels, and make the speedometer visible to all. And I said that I thought their price range of $13-$15k was too high for such a limited-use car; I didn't think many people would be willing to pay more than $10k or at most $12k (in 1997 dollars) for such a car given ICE options.

 

[Rokeby]

Thanks for the report on the current version of the Think City. I was able to rent a
pre-production 1st gen. model for a week back in '97 or '98 in the S.F. Bay Area,
and it seems they've made quite a few improvements and upgrade
<snip>.

Thanks for your input. We have to be careful about trying to compare the pre-production
car you drove and the current version that I've driven, three times now. I know more
now than when I visited last Saturday, and I have been able to closely read the Owner/User
Manual. So, I'm going to address those matters in my earlier post that may need
correction or from your post that I may be able to clarify... and I'll try to keep it short!

Seats: they are decidedly firm. I was confued, there are seat edge bolsters on seat
bottom and back. What I remembered as narrowness was the bolsters agaist my lower
back. There is no lumbar support adjustment, seat back angle is adjustable. The seats
still have high squarish corners. Don't know where the passenger seat back release is
located.

* Steering wheel is up-down adjustable, but not in/out.
* Power windows with switches, one for each window, on the center console. Only work
when car is ON. No auto up/down on drivers window.
* Brake and go-pedals now pivot from up under the dash.
* FWIW, brake pedal is huge, about 4" x 5" -- to minimize pedal confusion caused false
"unintended acceleration?
* There may be some slight center-ward displacement of the brake/go-pedals. But if so,
it is no more than in my Gen II Prius.
* Rear hatch is one-piece glass without exterior frame. There are stripes of black paint on
interior, probably to block headlight glare from behind.
* Steering now has "ELECTRO-HYDRAULIC POWER ASSIST." The steering wheel appeared
to be slightly larger diameter than my Prius. I had no trouble cranking the steering wheel
from stop to stop. Don't know how many torns, but the steering felt roughly twice as
quick as my Prius.
* The go-pedal was easily modulated to get slow speeds in forward and reverse.
* Motor whine is greater than the LEAF. Aftermarket sound deadening on floor and
firewall may reduce this -- but why not go all the way and do roof and doors too?
* I did two U-turns on my third drive and I was surprised at the tightness. I think the
advertized 29' 5" turning circle is correct.
* I was told the suspension bits are from Renault/Nissan.
* Wheels: Alloy, 6x14, offset 0.94", bolt circle 4", center hole 2.56"
* Tire: 165/65R14, Michelin Energy Saver

As to charging, the Manual says:

Voltage:.....400 VDC
Stored power/capacity:........23,0 kWh / 70 Ah
Weight:......630 lb
Self discharge level:.....Ca. 4 W
Charging time:...... 0 - 100% approximately 8 hours
Above estimate is valid when charging from a 15 A /240V main
outlet at above 60° F (15 °C) ambient temperature.
Estimate 25% more charging time when using a 10 A main outlet.
Charging voltage:120V / 60 Hz or 240V / 60 Hz (Preferred)
Charging current:.....10 A / 15 A

 

[EVWannabe]

I test drove one on Monday. Am I not remembering correctly that the steering wheel also telescopes in and out? I was also very aware of the whirring sound from the motor. There was also a pulsating sound from the brakes when and after using them. I suppose one could get used to this.

EVWannbe

 

[GRA]

Thanks for the report on the current version of the Think City. I was able to rent a
pre-production 1st gen. model for a week back in '97 or '98 in the S.F. Bay Area,
and it seems they've made quite a few improvements and upgrade
<snip>.

Thanks for your input. We have to be careful about trying to compare the pre-production
car you drove and the current version that I've driven, three times now.

Considering 15 years and a Think generation or two separate the two events, I should certainly hope so! :lol:

I know more now than when I visited last Saturday, and I have been able to closely read the Owner/User Manual. So, I'm going to address those matters in my earlier post that may need
correction or from your post that I may be able to clarify... and I'll try to keep it short!

Seats: they are decidedly firm. I was confoued, there are seat edge bolsters on seat
bottom and back. What I remembered as narrowness was the bolsters agaist my lower
back. There is no lumbar support adjustment, seat back angle is adjustable. The seats
still have high squarish corners. Don't know where the passenger seat back release is
located.

Did you try to put in or retrieve anything from the back while sitting in the front?

<snip>

* Steering now has "ELECTRO-HYDRAULIC POWER ASSIST." The steering wheel appeared
to be slightly larger diameter than my Prius. I had no trouble cranking the steering wheel
from stop to stop. Don't know how many torns, but the steering felt roughly twice as
quick as my Prius.

Yeah, electric power-assist steering didn't exist back then, at least not on any car I'm aware of. It's becoming ubiquitous now thanks to gas mileage requirements, just in time for BEVs to benefit. Now we just need to get the Smart ED (electric drive can only help it) and the Scion iQ EV available for sale to the public. I really don't understand Toyota's decision to restrict the latter to fleet sales. Of course, an electric city car which will be parked on the street overnight only makes sense if there are curbside chargers available, or else workplace chargers.

<snip rest>

 

[wileylehman]

Are you considering AARP classic car auto insurance supplied by The Hartford Insurance Company? It’s worth comparing rates, in the least.

 

[EVWannabe]

Are you considering AARP classic car auto insurance supplied by The Hartford Insurance Company? It’s worth comparing rates, in the least.

The Think may be as slow as a Model T, but I don't believe that is the criteria they go by in determining what fits the classic car category.

EVWannabe

 

[mitch672]

I am no longer investigating insurance for the Think City, as I decided to just go with the Plug in Prius...
The think looks like a great car, like the Leaf, it's just not a good 1 car solution for me right now.

FYI, lots of good messages on the Think City on the Yahoo Group:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/think_ev/messages" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[magudaman]

Hate to resurrect a thread but this kept coming up when I would do searches around the web and figured it would be good to just mention what I had learned insurance wise just in the last week. We used to have Farmers Insurance but as shown earlier in the photo they don't insure the Think City. We instead ended up with All State who had no problem with get the car insured. Just another note, so far the car has worked out great. Personally I wouldn't have paid the original asking price for what you end up getting though. At $22,300 minus 10k in rebates 12,300 was darn good deal. We are trying to start up a new place to get away from the old school yahoo group and carry over a lot of the information too while gaining a lot of efficiency.

You can check it out if you want here:
http://www.thinkcarforum.com

I am still poking around here often to see what is new with the leafs as it was my fall back choice if the Think deal fell through. I'm am sure the Leafs refinement will bring me back within a couple years.

 

[GRA]

Think on its last legs:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080691_got-a-think-electric-car-and-need-warranty-work-get-it-now" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;