That $30K Car Bought In March Comes With A $15,000 Gas Bill!

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TRONZ

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
2,240
Location
Denver, CO
I find it interesting that people writing financial "opinion" pieces on EV's deliberatly avoid talking about the commitment to buy gasoline made by each new car buyer when they sign on the dotted line.

If we just look at March 2012 and apply the most basic (conservative) and rounded statistics of vehicle ownership we get something that reads like this;

A new car will travel about 33 miles a day or 1000 miles a month which is 12,000 miles a year. The average efficiency of all new cars sold in March 2012 is up to 24 mpg (24.1 to be exact). 12,000 miles divided by 24mpg means an average user of an average March car has committed to buying and burning 500 gallons of gasoline in the first year or ownership... AND every year after for the life of the car. At a (low) $3.75 a gallon that's $1,875 each year. The average life expectancy of a new car is about 8 years. So $1,875 every year over 8 years is $15,000! And that's if gas prices stay at $3.75 a gallon for the next 8 years! If they reach (very likely) the much talked about $5.00 a gallon mark, a new car buyer at that time has committed to paying $20,000 to Oil Companies over the next 8 years!

The average March sale price for new cars was over $30,000 ($30,748 in fact). BUT the total financial commitment made by the buyer is really $45,000. And let's be very clear, these cars don't cease to exist if you sell them. Even if the car changes hands the commitment of the next car owner to hand over the rest of the $15,000 remains! And the original owner gets another car and starts the 8 year process over... but at a higher starting price on 8 years of gasoline!

I have said it before but most Americans hate Oil Companies! In fact, Oil Companies are the very last thing people want to give a buck to much less 15,000 of them! It's an absolutely insane commitment and one that people don't want to talk about much less think about. So the next time someone questions the financial justification of an EV, it's a prime opportunity to instead discuss the persons $15,000 commitment to buying gasoline. I guarantee, they will quickly change the subject.
 
Very good point, although unfortunately most consumers heavily weight the initial purchase price over running costs in their decision making. That's why an all-in-one desktop printer costs $69 but the ink cartridges are $25 each.
 
DeaneG said:
Very good point, although unfortunately most consumers heavily weight the initial purchase price over running costs in their decision making. That's why an all-in-one desktop printer costs $69 but the ink cartridges are $25 each.

Yes! And that 0% Credit Card goes to 20% once you start carrying a balance. Once they buy something the commitment and burdon is on them. This insane commitment and burdon is exactly the conversation people need to be having about gas cars. If you drive a gas car, you will pay! There is no escape for these vehicles!
 
In the US especially initial price is king over TCO

look at any of the money saving options for your home and consumers pick the cheap to buy expensive to run option

from water heaters to heating systems ,

always cheapup front , expensive in the long run


consumers are brain washed that way here.

long term thinkers like companies and factories think differently and invest in geo-thermal and solar and other cheaper in the long run tech
 
I will say if you look at the window stickers on cars now they are attempting to drive this point to the consumer

the label shows either the saving in fuel over 5 year over the typical car, or the extra expense in fuel over 5 years compared to the typical 24mpg car

so a CT200h saves to 6-7k in fuel ovver 5 years

and a large suv costs you 9-12k more then the typical car in 5 years

meaning $15k plus in fuel costs over 5 years

the leaf shows a $8500 to 9000 saving I think
 
Sticker on 2012 LEAF says $600 Annual Electric Cost. Cost estimate is based on 15,000 miles and 12 cents per kWh.

The burdon of financial justification is clearly on the gas car!
 
While I agree with you, you do need to talk about the electricity cost of an EV. I know it pales in comparison, but it needs to be listed so that a skeptical person reading doesn't think that data is being hidden. I'll do a quick napkin calculation :

1000 miles a month @ 3.5miles/kwh (wall usage) x $0.11 kwh (can vary dramatically) = $31.43 x 12 months x 8 years = $3,017

So, five times less money then the 24 mpg car. Comparisons between the LEAF and the PRIUS are much less dramatic :

1000 miles a month @ 50mpg x $3.75/gal = $75 x 12 months x 8 years = $7,200

Still at least twice as much...but the PRIUS cost many thousands less to buy upfront. Of course, you have those nagging maintenance costs with the ICE. ;)
 
DeaneG said:
Very good point, although unfortunately most consumers heavily weight the initial purchase price over running costs in their decision making. That's why an all-in-one desktop printer costs $69 but the ink cartridges are $25 each.
Yes! That is it exactly. I vowed never to buy another inkjet printer about 7 years ago. I've stuck with laser only ever since then and I have saved TONS of money on ink, and lots of headaches of dealing with dried up ink cartridges, etc. The first thing people asked when I made the change was "what if you want to print a photograph?" Sound familiar? (what if you want to take a road trip, etc..) I told them that was something I rarely did and if I wanted a photo, I'd drive down to Walgreens and have it printed. Their print will be better than anything an inkjet will turn out anyway! And I have not regretted that decision since. Sure, my printer cost more money up-front, but it has paid for itself many times over. And guess how many trips I've made to walgreens to print photos over the last 7 years? Once, I think. Maybe twice.

Buying an electric car requires much of the same thought process.
 
I find it interesting that people writing financial "opinion" pieces on EV's deliberatly avoid talking about the commitment to buy gasoline made by each new car buyer when they sign on the dotted line.

Perfect formulation, Tronz.
CONGRATULATIONS!!
 
DurkaDurka said:
While I agree with you, you do need to talk about the electricity cost of an EV. I know it pales in comparison, but it needs to be listed so that a skeptical person reading doesn't think that data is being hidden. I'll do a quick napkin calculation :

1000 miles a month @ 3.5miles/kwh (wall usage) x $0.11 kwh (can vary dramatically) = $31.43 x 12 months x 8 years = $3,017

So, five times less money then the 24 mpg car. Comparisons between the LEAF and the PRIUS are much less dramatic :

1000 miles a month @ 50mpg x $3.75/gal = $75 x 12 months x 8 years = $7,200

Still at least twice as much...but the PRIUS cost many thousands less to buy upfront. Of course, you have those nagging maintenance costs with the ICE. ;)

Leaving aside my pv solar system, my costs are way lower than that.
The Leaf in LA with DWP EV rate on the TOU overnight or weekend rate (between 8.3 and 8.7 cents per kWh depending on whether it is summer or not) costs about 2 cents a mile to run for 15,000 miles a year or $300.
The $4.50/ gallon gasoline equivalent in LA for my former 22 mpg ICE car is $3000.
More like 1:10 ratio.
 
Because of this way of thinking, if we ever see the $10,000 EV + swappable pay-as-you-go battery at 25 cents a mile, they will be all over it like it was a revolution.
 
what is the payback time on a Nissan Leaf verses a 2010 Toyota Prius pkg 4??

answer; what payback time? the Prius cost MORE not less

how about a 2012 Ford Focus with similiar features and SFE (super fuel efficiency) with 40 mpg highway?

depends. in WA State, payback would about a year or whenever you get your tax return since my Leaf basically cost me the same as any other $24,000 car purchased in WA with sales tax.

i could go on and on...obtw, the Prius gets more and more expensive every day since March figures states i purchased $109 in gas verses roughly $23 for electricity if i had driven the same distance (which i will do in April and for the foreseeable future) so that is $86 a month added as long as gas stays at $4
 
Most people that I talked to about EVs would rather pay price of gas to have the convenience that ICE car offers then deal with shortcomings of EVs. I am pretty sure if there was an CUV-sized electric car for $30k with 300 mile range people would look at this differently.
 
In the US especially initial price is king over TCO

I think this is a more fundamental biological property of the human mind that you can find all over the world...I wonder if people would act different, if they had the money to pay the higher upfront price or if they would act just the same, i.e. going for tangible short term gain?

Surely when you lease a Leaf, it should be obviously cheaper than leasing a comparable ICE car + gas?
 
I think part of the reason people never compared TCO for cars inclusive of gas prices is because the typical car that averages 24mpg (not hybrid and not sports car) would have a negligible variance in cost for gasoline going a little more efficient vs a little less efficient. If you took a car that got 24mpg with regular vs premium gas, that's only $150 difference for the year (at $0.30 more per gallon of premium over regular). That equals $1,200 for your 8 year example. So with the average car info you had that shows TCO of a $30k car at $45,000 (regular) vs $46,200 (premium), that's only a 3% difference in price. Additionally every car (sports car, standard sedan, hybrid, etc.) all require regular maintenance like oil changes, 30k/60k/90k maintenance, etc. and those costs would also be negligeable based on the price range of car you are looking in (cost of maintenance of $50k cars are roughly the same and cost of maintenance of $20k cars are roughly the same).

The market has not seen anything that affects TCO quite like LEAF. No typical maintenance plus a fuel bill of $2,712 less than a Prius over 8 years (that's 2011 Prius' $900/year gas cost vs LEAF's $561/year electricity). Not to mention a an even greater savings in fuel in markets where gas costs more than their $3.70 average (like, everywhere) or people on TOU electrical rates.
 
To be honest, I was not trying to start another "LEAF comparison or TCO" thread as there are already plenty of those. But today, more than ever, people HATE oil companies! They REALLY hate them!!! I mean, there is alot of "oil is the excrement of Satan" talk going on out there! Yet people still commited to handing over $15,000 for this "excrement" each time they bought a (average) new car last month. $15,000 for s**t is a gigantoid amount of money that none of the March sales analysis or EV critics are going near. Its pretty funny actually... in a coo coo sort of way of course.

Seems like a mass "intervention" is in order.
 
EricBayArea said:
The market has not seen anything that affects TCO quite like LEAF. No typical maintenance plus a fuel bill of $2,712 less than a Prius over 8 years (that's 2011 Prius' $900/year gas cost vs LEAF's $561/year electricity).
What do you mean, no typical maintenance??? I have only had my Leaf for 10 months, and I have already spent $20 on maintenance... getting the tires rotated. :lol:
 
Stoaty said:
What do you mean, no typical maintenance??? I have only had my Leaf for 10 months, and I have already spent $20 on maintenance... getting the tires rotated. :lol:
wow, $20 what a rip off!!! :) It's free at the Discount Tire if you bought tires from them before.
 
TRONZ said:
To be honest, I was not trying to start another "LEAF comparison or TCO" thread as there are already plenty of those. But today, more than ever, people HATE oil companies! They REALLY hate them!!! I mean, there is alot of "oil is the excrement of Satan" talk going on out there!
what Tronz said.

When folks say they are Leafing, in part, to get away from buying foreign oil, I say that I dont like domestic oil all that much better.
same guys, different hats.
 
Some people bring up ICE gas vs. EV electric plus replacement battery cost. This might be a valid argument. We don't know the long range battery cost...

I was showing off my LEAF at a local high school today (for Earth Day) when one of the kids spoke up and said her dad wouldn't consider an BEV because he didn't want the cost of replacing the battery every three years. I don't want her to start an argument with her dad, but I did let know that I've had my LEAF for 15 months and it's had NO battery degradation.
 
Back
Top