Deleted member 1622
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 142
Hello --
I just came from a Tesla S test drive, and asked the 19-year-old sales guy some tough questions about Tesla battery degradation over time.
I come at this as an owner of a 2011 Leaf with 39K miles, and a 79.4% capacity confirmed by Leaf Spy.
So when he told me that Tesla claims a maximum 0.7% per year degradation (let's call it 5% over 5 years), my jaw dropped. When you consider the 8 year battery warranty and a promise to replace any cell that doesn't meet the 0.7 standard each year, it really makes Nissan's numbers and lame warranty (ie, come to us only if you hit less than 70% capacity) look terrible.
My question is why Tesla beats Nissan by 4X or more on the degradation score? Or do we think this is unrealistic for Tesla to claim those figures?
Out of these three explanations for the Tesla-Leaf battery gap, which one has the most impact:
- Tesla has a thermal management system (does it work during the charging cycle or only while the car is running?). Leaf does not.
- Tesla uses LiCo battery, Leaf uses LiMn.
- Nissan battery manufacture is lower quality than Tesla.
Other reasons? If the Tesla degradation is really this low and Nissan keeps making cars that essentially wear out in 5 years, I don't see how the Leaf can compete. When I bought the Leaf I was fully aware of the 20% loss, but I underestimated how important that 20% is to our daily destinations. There are many places we could go to in 2011 that we cannot go to in 2015.
The biggest problem is really transparency, it always has been. If consumers have to guess at degradation numbers or trust sales people to give honest estimates, we aren't going to have solid information to make an EV choice. This drives away potential buyers and hurts the overall EV movement.
Best,
Josh
I just came from a Tesla S test drive, and asked the 19-year-old sales guy some tough questions about Tesla battery degradation over time.
I come at this as an owner of a 2011 Leaf with 39K miles, and a 79.4% capacity confirmed by Leaf Spy.
So when he told me that Tesla claims a maximum 0.7% per year degradation (let's call it 5% over 5 years), my jaw dropped. When you consider the 8 year battery warranty and a promise to replace any cell that doesn't meet the 0.7 standard each year, it really makes Nissan's numbers and lame warranty (ie, come to us only if you hit less than 70% capacity) look terrible.
My question is why Tesla beats Nissan by 4X or more on the degradation score? Or do we think this is unrealistic for Tesla to claim those figures?
Out of these three explanations for the Tesla-Leaf battery gap, which one has the most impact:
- Tesla has a thermal management system (does it work during the charging cycle or only while the car is running?). Leaf does not.
- Tesla uses LiCo battery, Leaf uses LiMn.
- Nissan battery manufacture is lower quality than Tesla.
Other reasons? If the Tesla degradation is really this low and Nissan keeps making cars that essentially wear out in 5 years, I don't see how the Leaf can compete. When I bought the Leaf I was fully aware of the 20% loss, but I underestimated how important that 20% is to our daily destinations. There are many places we could go to in 2011 that we cannot go to in 2015.
The biggest problem is really transparency, it always has been. If consumers have to guess at degradation numbers or trust sales people to give honest estimates, we aren't going to have solid information to make an EV choice. This drives away potential buyers and hurts the overall EV movement.
Best,
Josh