Steal Your Battery program: Any news? Hello Nissan?

[mwalsh]

I've been following some of this as well, and I think (but have no proof) that the prices that are indicated are for 1/3 of the pack. The Volt pack consists of three identical packs that are connected together (not sure, but I assume they are series connected, but could very well be parallel.) I believe the $1900 price is for one of the three "packs", and that does not include any of the BMS or connection hardware that is required to build a complete traction pack. Have you found a link to someone who has actually purchased something to confirm that it is a complete pack or just 1/3 of the cells for a pack?

What you say sort of makes sense. Bob Lutz was quoted in 2010 as saying the Volt's pack cost $6000 to manufacture (cells only). But the pictures posted from the online parts website do make it look like it's the whole T-shaped unit.

I don't think anyone has tried to order whatever they're offering. And I'd personally still be very surprised to see one delivered at that price.

 

[smkettner]

I know what I'll be doing with my leaf if they don't have a battery for me when I need one. I'll stick it up in a tree where a leaf belongs right next to this falcon:

I think this bicycle was set up here waiting for replacement parts also:

 

[Pandabear]

Not sure about Leaf as it is, but based on my experience going to junk yard for parts I think this is what will happen:

1) Nissan is not committed because they don't want an open ended responsibility to make fresh battery (they don't sit on the shelf for 10 years waiting for people to buy them), and if they don't have a commitment, they can only do small batch production as needed and the cost will be VERY HIGH.

2) They want to encourage people to dump their Leaf when the price to keep it on the road is too high to justify ($100 / month for a 15 year old car that has other non battery related issue to fix may not justify anymore). Let's be honest here, if your car needs $100 per month, at 150k miles and 12 years, it will be worth probably only $1500 the most. Any collision that involves a $1000 paint job will render the car totaled.

3) Like any car, Leaves will get into accidents and totaled, so there will be high demand in the battery pack for replacements, and high supply in other parts as replacement for fixable Leaves. This will balance out the cost in insurance / repair vs cost in battery pack to keep the car on the road.

I don't think it is a car that will stay on the road for 15-20 years like other ICE cars, but at least the depreciation would be manageable when you factor in the fuel cost and junk yard parts repair cost.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

2) They want to encourage people to dump their Leaf when the price to keep it on the road is too high to justify ($100 / month for a 15 year old car that has other non battery related issue to fix may not justify anymore). Let's be honest here, if your car needs $100 per month, at 150k miles and 12 years, it will be worth probably only $1500 the most. Any collision that involves a $1000 paint job will render the car totaled.
I don't think it is a car that will stay on the road for 15-20 years like other ICE cars, but at least the depreciation would be manageable when you factor in the fuel cost and junk yard parts repair cost.

While I agree with some of what you say, as I look to replace my leaf with an ICE one part strikes me.

If you car needs $100/month at 150k miles and 12 years...

What would you do if you have an ICE car at 150k miles and 12 years and it still required more than $100/month... in gas! How absurd. Why would anyone throw such good money into an old car month after month!

It's easy to forget how expensive gas is, and oil changes every 3 months. Electricity at least in my area is so much cheaper it's almost like driving for free.

 

[TimLee]

It's easy to forget how expensive gas is, and oil changes every 3 months. Electricity at least in my area is so much cheaper it's almost like driving for free.

Although it seems "free", it is just a whole lot less.
In my case about 3 cents per mile for electricity and zero other O&M cost to date, versus 15 cents per mile for my 2009 Altima for gasoline and oil changes and also zero other O&M cost to date.
So driving the LEAF is about 20% of the variable O&M cost of a somewhat similar size ICE vehicle.
Around 17,000 miles on 2011 LEAF and 24,000 miles on 2009 4 cylinder Altima.
But you have to keep in mind, that if the LEAF battery is at an unacceptable capacity at 60,000 miles or a few more, that the O&M savings will have only been 60,000 miles times 12 cents per mile = $7,200. Not a huge amount of savings if the battery is Dead on Arrival at 6 years and a bit more than 60,000 miles and if the battery costs a more realistic $400 to $500 per kWh ($9,600 to $12,000) for the LEAF.
Then the LEAF Total Cost of Ownership looks truly pathetic.
And I only paid $34,000 for it, but fortunately the Federal and State government subsidized around $12,000 of my having this great experience.
Of course Nissan is offering to let me keep driving for $100 per month with a new battery.
But with my low <7,000 miles per year, that will be over 17 cents per mile just to rent the battery that they stole. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes, I love driving electric. I may be crazy enough to keep doing it the rest of my life.
But at low miles per year, it is a truly stupid total cost of ownership decision, at least from where Nissan stands right now.
There will be some value remaining in the disposable slightly greater than five years old slightly more than 60,000 mile 2011 LEAF. Pretty good vehicle in a short commute retirement community, a lot better than the limited distance limited speed retirement community vehicles currently on the market.
But doubtful the market will say it is worth more than $5,000.
Not quite as disposable as a rechargeable electric shaver, but kind of in that same ball park.

 

[dgpcolorado]

^Well said, Tim Lee! For low mileage drivers, TCO in a car with a rapidly degrading battery is ridiculous, as is the $100/month battery rental.

I enjoy driving my LEAF but I am paying dearly for it. Part of the cost of being an early adopter I suppose.

 

[thankyouOB]

It's easy to forget how expensive gas is, and oil changes every 3 months. Electricity at least in my area is so much cheaper it's almost like driving for free.

Although it seems "free", it is just a whole lot less.
In my case about 3 cents per mile for electricity and zero other O&M cost to date, versus 15 cents per mile for my 2009 Altima for gasoline and oil changes and also zero other O&M cost to date.
So driving the LEAF is about 20% of the variable O&M cost of a somewhat similar size ICE vehicle.
Around 17,000 miles on 2011 LEAF and 24,000 miles on 2009 4 cylinder Altima.
But you have to keep in mind, that if the LEAF battery is at an unacceptable capacity at 60,000 miles or a few more, that the O&M savings will have only been 60,000 miles times 12 cents per mile = $7,200. Not a huge amount of savings if the battery is Dead on Arrival at 6 years and a bit more than 60,000 miles and if the battery costs a more realistic $400 to $500 per kWh ($9,600 to $12,000) for the LEAF.
Then the LEAF Total Cost of Ownership looks truly pathetic.
And I only paid $34,000 for it, but fortunately the Federal and State government subsidized around $12,000 of my having this great experience.
Of course Nissan is offering to let me keep driving for $100 per month with a new battery.
But with my low <7,000 miles per year, that will be over 17 cents per mile just to rent the battery that they stole. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes, I love driving electric. I may be crazy enough to keep doing it the rest of my life.
But at low miles per year, it is a truly stupid total cost of ownership decision, at least from where Nissan stands right now.
There will be some value remaining in the disposable slightly greater than five years old slightly more than 60,000 mile 2011 LEAF. Pretty good vehicle in a short commute retirement community, a lot better than the limited distance limited speed retirement community vehicles currently on the market.
But doubtful the market will say it is worth more than $5,000.
Not quite as disposable as a rechargeable electric shaver, but kind of in that same ball park.

i dont follow the math to dead battery at 60,000 miles and six years.
you say that you go <7000 miles a year, that would take almost 9 years to get there, not six.
what is my addled brain missing.

 

[TimLee]

i dont follow the math to dead battery at 60,000 miles and six years.
you say that you go <7000 miles a year, that would take almost 9 years to get there, not six.
what is my addled brain missing.

Depends on your climate and behaviours and garage temperatures, etc.
Yes, for me in Chattanooga at 7,000 miles per year it may be closer to 8 years instead of six, but still a bit hard to predict with data at present.
But in any case, Nissan is leaving it to the owner to be on their own post 5 years, 60,000 miles, 66.25% capacity with regards to capacity, no matter what they said when they started advertising the LEAF.
Of course, if you drive a lot of miles per year (20,000+), the $100 per month SYB program may not be all that bad for you.
The low miles per year person is in bad shape no matter how this comes out.
As a recent article comparing pros / cons of pure gas ICE versus diesel ICE versus hybrid pointed out, the only choice that makes financial total cost of ownership for a low miles per year driver is a pure gas ICE.
And that is truly sad that none of the reduced emissions better technologies get to a reasonable total cost of ownership for a low miles per year driver.

 

[thankyouOB]

well, it is a year later.
any news on the SYB?

 

[TomT]

It seems to have disappeared from the face of the earth... I've heard nothing since our August meeting in Phoenix...

well, it is a year later.
any news on the SYB?

 

[smkettner]

First Nissan needs to roll out the lizard battery. Maybe for 2015?

 

[evchels]

It seems to have disappeared from the face of the earth... I've heard nothing since our August meeting in Phoenix...

well, it is a year later.
any news on the SYB?

Definitely hasn't disappeared. Not sure what the current announcement timing is though.