SPX 32A L2 Plug-In, All-Voltage EVSE

[smkettner]

Well if you plan to get a city permit then submit a plan to see what is expected to get approval.
You don't want to do it twice.

 

[JouleThief]

Thanks for the reply joulethief. Can you clarify the upgrades that are needed? On your link, you describe that in order to future proof your evse and utilize the 32 amp, it is necessary to upgrade the input and output wires. I am assuming since my battery is 6.6 kw, I will need to do these upgrades?

Well unfortunately I think the upgrade would be rather costly if you decided to do it. First you would need to get a J1772 cable with 8-3AWG wire and also the pilot signal comm wire. This isn't a standard cable you can buy at your local home depot, my guess is you could probably have a 20' cable made for maybe $200. Then you'd need to source a J1772 connector rated to handle 32A. I believe there are currently only 2 versions, a 30A (which comes standard on the Power Xpress) or a 70A. Last I checked the cheapest J1772 connector I could find was $200 and it was only rated to 30A. Then you would need to assemble this hardware or pay someone to do it for you. All said and done I'd expect this to run you $400-$600. It's safe to say NO ONE has actually done this yet, so you would be doing some trail blazing here. You could also call SPX and ask for their help and recommendations but I wouldn't count on much support from them.

The good news is I don't think it's really necessary in you're case. As I mentioned, a 6.6kWh charger on a 240V line will only draw 27.5A (6.6kWh = 6600W / 240V = 27.5A). So if I were you, I would get the Power Xpress, set it to 32A, and not worry about it since your car won't pull more than 27.5A anyway. This will just allow the Power Xpress to deliver the max charge your car can take. And if you're planning to plug into dryer outlets, they will have a 30A breaker anyway so if for any reason you ever did pull more than 30A, the breaker would simply trip. If you ever find it to become an issue, just dial the Power Xpress back to 24A, which wouldn't be much slower than 27.5 anyway (5.76kWh).

Update: Well good news, Tucson EV is now selling J1772 plugs with 8m cords rated at 70A for $250. Link below:

http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So while I still think you could get away with a 30A breaker, 10awg wire, 6-30 plug/outlet and the existing 30A J1772 plug and cable, you do have the option to fully upgrade. If you want to be by the books and code compliant (which you will need to do if you plan to seek a city permit) then use a 40A breaker, 8awg wire, a 6-50 plug/outlet and the 70A J1772 plug/cable. This will add to your costs for sure but everything would be rated adequately to handle 32A. Could be overkill since you won't pull over 30A anyway and when you use it at your in-laws their circuit will only be rated to 30A even if your circuit at home is good for 40A+. Plus the 70A J1772 cable uses 6awg wire which means it will be bulkier and heavier hence more difficult to transport. Choice is yours, just wanted to give you some options to consider.

 

[ss0808]

Thanks for all the great info on installing the outlet. My power xpress arrives 1/9/12. My bro in law and I are all set to do this project on my own but I am getting cold feet. I think I will get some more quotes from licensed electricians. Any recs for a good and reasonably priced electrician in orange county?

 

[smkettner]

I have used http://www.aceoc.com plenty of times for various electric repairs or upgrades.
Very happy with the work.

 

[N952JL]

Thanks for all the great info on installing the outlet. My power xpress arrives 1/9/12. My bro in law and I are all set to do this project on my own but I am getting cold feet. I think I will get some more quotes from licensed electricians. Any recs for a good and reasonably priced electrician in orange county?

My electrician charged me 150.00 to install a 40amp 240 plug for my PowerExpress and hook everything up. I then added a garden hose wall hanger to coil the cord. Entire EVSE less than 1000.00 including shipping and taxes.

 

[leaf4me]

I called SPX about this issue. I do not have the car yet but I wanted to know what they say about it and what would my options be in case I experience the same problem with the end timer.

This is actually the second time I call. I did it about a month ago and did not receive a straight answer from the girl with technical support; this time I asked them if they had heard about the issue before and they said I was the first one (even if I called about it a month ago and talked to a different technician/engineer) and that they document every call.

Basically, the guy said that the Power Express is built on the same standard as everyone else's and that it should work; he even blamed the LEAF for not knowing how to request power using the end timer...

Can you (everyone who has had the problem) call SPX at 877 805 3873, option 2, and cordially request an explanation? they say that I must try with my vehicle when it arrives and use the L1 unit, verify that the car charges with the end timer and then attempt with the PowerExpress and document the results. They say that if it does not work, they would assume the unit is defective and send me a new one.

Also, when calling, ask if they are aware of the issue and if someone has called them before. I called today, Oct 31st at 16:12 EDT.

Lets bombard them with requests until they accept that the EVSE does not communicate well with the LEAF and they fix it. :roll:

Did SPX ever fix this issue? If so, what was required to get the fix? (I received my Leaf two weeks ago. I have the SPX Power Xpress, and it has this issue.)

 

[amtoro]

Did SPX ever fix this issue? If so, what was required to get the fix? (I received my Leaf two weeks ago. I have the SPX Power Xpress, and it has this issue.)

To be honest, I have not called them since I took delivery of the car; their attitude was not the best when I called them before that and told them that I had tested it with the Demo vehicle and found the problem. They, basically, told me that their charging station is perfect and complies with all the design requirements for the J1772 standard and that it must have been the car that has a problem…

They also denied any knowledge of the issue and denied that anybody had called about it. (Even if I had called myself a month before that)

Basically, I’m OK with the SPX but I use the start timer only.

Just another big company that does not care about the customers.

EDIT:

I just called them again, and there is no hope...

1. Technical support calls the PowerXpress "the charger".
2. They say that it must be my car and that the timer in the car is being overwritten by the timer in "the charger" (and they can not understand that their product does NOT have a timer, or that it is not a charger)
3. Their only solution is to take it to the dealer because "it has to be something in the car's software"
4. I can return it but they want a 20% re-stocking fee
5. They still deny any knowledge of the issue and say that nobody has ever had a problem with their "charger"
6. To add insult to injury, they didn't know exactly what car the LEAF is....

I guess I will post an ad in the Volt forum and try to sell it there; SPX only listens to Chevy customers. :evil:

 

[garygid]

I believe ... that this "defect/feature" comes from an unnecessarily-strict (or even incorrect) interpretation of the J1772 handshake sequence.

Some EVSEs are "stingy", and are programmed to supply power to the car ONLY ONCE for each J1772 plug-in sequence.

However, this strictness is not required by the J1772 Standard. Reading (and then implementing) only the typical-use handshake sequence could lead one to designing a simple, but "stingy" EVSE.

However, following the J1772's specified State-Transition Chart (somewhat more difficult to understand) leads one to an EVSE design that will provide multiple Power On/Off sequences during one Plug-In session.

After plug-in, the LEAF asks for power briefly (when the End-Only Timer is being used). It does this to determine the Voltage and Max-Amps that it will have to use LATER, when charging. The LEAF needs this information to calculate WHEN to "Start Charging" to meet the End-Time specified.

When the LEAF asks later for power to be turned ON (again), these "stingy" EVSEs refuse to comply with the request.

Many EVSEs (properly, I believe) supply power again, but the "stingy" EVSE does not.

 

[Stanton]

Thanks for that (clear) explanation; I use an "end only" timer. Since the SPX was on my early "watch list" for EVSEs, I've been following this thread for months. Based on recent posts, I can officially say it is OFF my list. If/when SPX ever corrects (recognizes?) this problem/issue, maybe I will reconsider.

 

[smkettner]

SPX must be trying to prevent the Volt from repetedly charging to 100% each night when vehicle has not been used.
Of course this should be resolved at the vehicle not the evse.

 

[JouleThief]

I guess I will post an ad in the Volt forum and try to sell it there; SPX only listens to Chevy customers. :evil:

Ha, I wish that were true. Trust me, SPX gets little love on the Volt forum - just do a thread search for SPX over there and you'll see mostly negative experiences involving terrible customer service, over priced installation quotes, and a general lack of responsiveness. In fact, the SPX rep Barth who occasionally posts there (and here from time to time) has been absent for quite awhile. But since they've increased the price on the Power Xpress to $949, assuming you bought yours at $749 you should have no problem selling it on the Volt forum for what you paid. I believe MTN Ranger got an offer of $860 for his. Good luck!

JT

 

[JouleThief]

SPX must be trying to prevent the Volt from repetedly charging to 100% each night when vehicle has not been used.
Of course this should be resolved at the vehicle not the evse.

I doubt thats it. I've plugged my Volt into the Power Xpress at full charge and the SPX does not try to charge it, it just goes into battery TMS maintenance mode. I've also switched back and forth while plugged in where I was charging, but set the Volt to delayed TOU mode and the SPX stopped charging, then succesfully started charging again after midnight exactly as it should without ever unplugging the car. I'm sure it has something to do with the J1772 handshaking.

What's interesting is the Volt does not have a start time like the Leaf. The Volt has 3 charge modes:
1) Charge immediately upon plug in
2) Delayed charging based on departure time (should be the same as the Leaf's end time)
3) Delayed charging based on TOU and departure time (this gets complicated, but the Volt will only charge during mid-peak or off-peak times, but can be configured to still override this to ensure full charge is achieved by a set departure time)

I've used all 3 modes with the Power Xpress with no issues.

JT

 

[garygid]

If one leaves a Volt plugged in to a "normal" (non-stingy) EVSE, it will do a top-up charge over and over?

How often will the Volt automatically top up, ... every day, every hour, ...?

Sounds ... strange.

 

[JouleThief]

If one leaves a Volt plugged in to a "normal" (non-stingy) EVSE, it will do a top-up charge over and over?

How often will the Volt automatically top up, ... every day, every hour, ...?

Sounds ... strange.

No, not a top-up charge, once the Volt is fully charged it won't charge again unless you deplete the SOC by driving the vehicle. TMS=Thermal Management System which maintains the Volt's battery temperature, something the Leaf does not have. Even when fully charged, if the Volt is plugged into an active EVSE it will use that power to optimize the battery temp within a very wide range. Unless its really cold (<25F) or really hot, it won't matter.

 

[smkettner]

If one leaves a Volt plugged in to a "normal" (non-stingy) EVSE, it will do a top-up charge over and over?

How often will the Volt automatically top up, ... every day, every hour, ...?

Sounds ... strange.

Wouldn't Leaf do the same if the timer was set to charger 100% from 12a to 6a every day?

 

[brent]

mine does a very breif power up at the pre-set ( low TOU) time at either the 80% or 100% level,
every day / every time it passed the set time.

 

[amtoro]

I believe ... that this "defect/feature" comes from an unnecessarily-strict (or even incorrect) interpretation of the J1772 handshake sequence.

Some EVSEs are "stingy", and are programmed to supply power to the car ONLY ONCE for each J1772 plug-in sequence.

However, this strictness is not required by the J1772 Standard. Reading (and then implementing) only the typical-use handshake sequence could lead one to designing a simple, but "stingy" EVSE.

However, following the J1772's specified State-Transition Chart (somewhat more difficult to understand) leads one to an EVSE design that will provide multiple Power On/Off sequences during one Plug-In session.

After plug-in, the LEAF asks for power briefly (when the End-Only Timer is being used). It does this to determine the Voltage and Max-Amps that it will have to use LATER, when charging. The LEAF needs this information to calculate WHEN to "Start Charging" to meet the End-Time specified.

When the LEAF asks later for power to be turned ON (again), these "stingy" EVSEs refuse to comply with the request.

Many EVSEs (properly, I believe) supply power again, but the "stingy" EVSE does not.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, garygid.

Curiously, the SPX does not have a problem with the remote requests during the same plugged-in session; I can have the car charged to 80% as normal (it usually reaches that SOC at 4:30 am), but if I assume I will need a 100% charge that day, I can send the remote request to restart the charge and top-up when I get up if I have about 90 minutes before leaving in the morning.

 

[davewill]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, garygid.

Curiously, the SPX does not have a problem with the remote requests during the same plugged-in session; I can have the car charged to 80% as normal (it usually reaches that SOC at 4:30 am), but if I assume I will need a 100% charge that day, I can send the remote request to restart the charge and top-up when I get up if I have about 90 minutes before leaving in the morning.

Yeah, the LEAF "samples" the voltage no matter what kind of timer is active. The problem must be more subtle...maybe the SPX doesn't turn on the power quick enough for the LEAF to successfully sample it?

 

[amtoro]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, garygid.

Curiously, the SPX does not have a problem with the remote requests during the same plugged-in session; I can have the car charged to 80% as normal (it usually reaches that SOC at 4:30 am), but if I assume I will need a 100% charge that day, I can send the remote request to restart the charge and top-up when I get up if I have about 90 minutes before leaving in the morning.

Yeah, the LEAF "samples" the voltage no matter what kind of timer is active. The problem must be more subtle...maybe the SPX doesn't turn on the power quick enough for the LEAF to successfully sample it?

That sounds like a possibility...

 

[kubel]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I just found out that my utility wants to give me an SPX PowerXpress instead of the Schneider EVLink unit that I requested since it "isn't compatible with the LEAF". Does anyone know if the SPX EVSE still has problems with the LEAF timer, or did they fix it?