so, bottom line - which EVSE, if any?

[SSS]

Sounds to me like you want a straightforward answer. After I looked at several brands, I bought the EVSEUpgrade from Ingineer. It works great for me, fast, easy to use, and zero problems.
Friends recommended a local electrician who installed the correct outlet in my garage for $100 and since then the unit has never been unplugged from the wall. It connects to my Leaf exactly like the trickle charger, except the EVSEUpgrade is faster than I had expected. I'm perfectly satisfied with this unit and I highly recommend it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I disagree with the "future proofing" concept in general. As pack capacities increase, the need for faster at home charging decreases, IMHO. The point of a top-off at home is to add miles for additional driving. Often needed with a 24 kWH pack. But with a 90 kWH pack how often would you get home needing a quick top off?

I disagree.

With my Rav4, with a battery twice as big as the LEAF, and a charger three times faster, there are plenty of times when I do use the full potential. I would buy a 20kW onboard charger (80 amps) if I could get it. That's the max limit of J1772.

The times when I need to charge midday is PRECISELY the reason why the "joke" chargers are so painful to use. The problems with folks telling other people how big their charger should be is they can only rationalize what works for them, and fit that model to everybody else.

At night, a 20 amp charger would probably be ok with 10 hour recharge in the Rav4, however it will cost me a lot of money in electricity since my "super off peak" time is midnight to 5am (going from 7.7 cents to 30+ cents, 400% more). So, the only way to stay in that window of time with a 50kWh battery is with 40 amps minimum.

The bigger the battery, the faster the charge required to stay in that window. My Tesla Model S-85 will have 80 amp service, so that it can also return home empty and recharge in 5 hours of super off peak. And, it can recharge at 60mph while out in the wild.

You guys can all fight over the little chargers.

 

[Nubo]

....The problems with folks telling other people how big their charger should be is they can only rationalize what works for them, and fit that model to everybody else....

I guess I should have added a few pages of disclaimers. Well, actually I did mention TOU...

I didn't mean to prescribe a particular charging rate for each and all, or tell anyone in particular how big their charger should be. Certainly some people drive 200 miles a day, I'm sure. And plenty of other situations. If you want an 80A charger, go for it.

I was trying to illustrate a relationship -- as the reservoir grows, the refill time becomes less important and for a greater percentage of users. If you carry it to absurd lengths it becomes even more apparent. 1000 mile pack, 5000 mile pack... Even with your restrictive 5-hour TOU window, that is more than enough range added per day to give the average driver a surplus on their average day. Not that I'm debating the technical possibilities but you get the idea.

No, not for everyone. But for many, "future proofing" doesn't scratch a future itch, but a current one that will fade.

 

[Nubo]

To answer the OP directly, my selection was the Leviton. It's built like a tank, and it's built in the USA.

EVR-Green 160 or EVR-Green 320

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=37741&minisite=10251" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TonyWilliams]

No, not for everyone. But for many, "future proofing" doesn't scratch a future itch, but a current one that will fade.

I think J1772 will be around for ten years, so I wouldn't hesitate to put in wiring capable of 80 amps (2 or 3 gauge) to a future 100 amp breaker.

As far as the actual appliance, sure, who knows what that may be (currently either a Tesla 80 amp HPC, Roadster 70 amp HPWC at the top of the food chain for home power consumption). But, I also wouldn't dismiss a J1772 at 75/80 amps for "future proof", as I think cars for at least 10 years will have an adapter to J1772, and it will still work fine in a LEAF.

 

[TonyWilliams]

To answer the OP directly, my selection was the Leviton. It's built like a tank, and it's built in the USA.

Not all Levitons are built here. I'm told that the 40 amp unit is made in Korea or China.

Clipper Creek is made in California, USA.

 

[coolfilmaker]

....The problems with folks telling other people how big their charger should be is they can only rationalize what works for them, and fit that model to everybody else....

I guess I should have added a few pages of disclaimers. Well, actually I did mention TOU...

I didn't mean to prescribe a particular charging rate for each and all, or tell anyone in particular how big their charger should be. Certainly some people drive 200 miles a day, I'm sure. And plenty of other situations. If you want an 80A charger, go for it.

I was trying to illustrate a relationship -- as the reservoir grows, the refill time becomes less important and for a greater percentage of users. If you carry it to absurd lengths it becomes even more apparent. 1000 mile pack, 5000 mile pack... Even with your restrictive 5-hour TOU window, that is more than enough range added per day to give the average driver a surplus on their average day. Not that I'm debating the technical possibilities but you get the idea.

No, not for everyone. But for many, "future proofing" doesn't scratch a future itch, but a current one that will fade.

The thing is, for every person that doesn't change their driving patterns with a long range electric car, their will be another one who uses the super cheap fuel as an excuse to take a 500 mile road trip every other weekend.

 

[Nubo]

To answer the OP directly, my selection was the Leviton. It's built like a tank, and it's built in the USA.

Not all Levitons are built here. I'm told that the 40 amp unit is made in Korea or China.

Clipper Creek is made in California, USA.

I'm not familiar with a 40 amp unit. I was referring to their residential product offerings, EVR-Green 160 and EVR-Green 320. I will update my previous post for specificity.

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=37741&minisite=10251" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[EVDRIVER]

I disagree with the "future proofing" concept in general. As pack capacities increase, the need for faster at home charging decreases, IMHO. The point of a top-off at home is to add miles for additional driving. Often needed with a 24 kWH pack. But with a 90 kWH pack how often would you get home needing a quick top off?

I disagree.

With my Rav4, with a battery twice as big as the LEAF, and a charger three times faster, there are plenty of times when I do use the full potential. I would buy a 20kW onboard charger (80 amps) if I could get it. That's the max limit of J1772.

The times when I need to charge midday is PRECISELY the reason why the "joke" chargers are so painful to use. The problems with folks telling other people how big their charger should be is they can only rationalize what works for them, and fit that model to everybody else.

At night, a 20 amp charger would probably be ok with 10 hour recharge in the Rav4, however it will cost me a lot of money in electricity since my "super off peak" time is midnight to 5am (going from 7.7 cents to 30+ cents, 400% more). So, the only way to stay in that window of time with a 50kWh battery is with 40 amps minimum.

The bigger the battery, the faster the charge required to stay in that window. My Tesla Model S-85 will have 80 amp service, so that it can also return home empty and recharge in 5 hours of super off peak. And, it can recharge at 60mph while out in the wild.

You guys can all fight over the little chargers.

Lager pack needs a higher capacity EVSE. Again, related to pack size. Clearly you won't be charging a Tesla at home in off-peal with a 3.8kw EVSE.

 

[fooljoe]

Lager pack needs a higher capacity EVSE. Again, related to pack size. Clearly you won't be charging a Tesla at home in off-peal with a 3.8kw EVSE.

Not necessarily, because how often, if ever, do you actually charge from 0-100%? (I never have.) Now we know Tony does this quite a bit, but he's probably more the exception than the rule. And whatever the frequency of "full" charging is with the Leaf and its puny battery, we should expect it to be lower as pack sizes increase.

I believe Nubo's point is that the average person drives something like 40 miles a day, and we should expect that to remain true regardless of how big his battery pack is. And 40 miles only takes 2-4 hours to replenish, even at 3.8kw. And in fact, it could even be argued that since you have more of a "reserve" with a big battery pack, you could get away with slower charging.

This of course ignores the possibility that because a larger pack enables more driving, a person with a larger pack will drive more. Maybe this is true, but who knows for sure. After all, the 40 miles/day figure comes from the world of ICE cars with their basically limitless range. And of course it's possible that there will be times when you need to go 300 miles one day, come home and charge up in 6 hours, then wake up and do it again, but I suppose that'll be pretty rare. That kind of driving is almost never seen except when on a road trip, and then you'd need that fast charging somewhere away from home anyway.

 

[fooljoe]

The problems with folks telling other people how big their charger should be is they can only rationalize what works for them, and fit that model to everybody else.

I think the question at hand here is sort of the opposite of what you're saying. Of course if you want/need a high powered EVSE and can afford it you should get it. But the question is if you don't need it (we're talking about a new Leaf driver who's doing fine on L1 so far after all) is it worth paying extra now because you just maybe might need it at some point in the future?

Of course this is a tricky question because the answer relies on a prediction of whether you'll get an EV with a higher-powered charger in the future and whether you'll drive more in the future than you do now, but based on what the average driver does now and the expectation that EVSEs will fall in price, I'd say don't pay more for a higher-powered EVSE until you have to. But if we're talking about having to install a new circuit anyway and it would be only slightly more expensive to go with thicker wire for a little future-proofing, then why not.

 

[mitch672]

One factor you are forgetting is, take the a Tesla Model S, it has a thermally managed battery pack, so in colder weather, it uses energy just to keep the pack warm. Plus with the parasitc electronics load, it loses about %1 charge/day even in "normal" temperatures. Teslas advice: leave it plugged in whenever possible. I built a 75A OpenEVSE, just in case I need a quick turnaround, it will probably be turned down most of the time to 16 or 24 amps, it's just nice to have the capability if needed.

 

[fooljoe]

One factor you are forgetting is, take the a Tesla Model S, it has a thermally managed battery pack, so in colder weather, it uses energy just to keep the pack warm. Plus with the parasitc electronics load, it loses about %1 charge/day even in "normal" temperatures. Teslas advice: leave it plugged in whenever possible. I built a 75A OpenEVSE, just in case I need a quick turnaround, it will probably be turned down most of the time to 16 or 24 amps, it's just nice to have the capability if needed.

I wouldn't say I or anyone else is forgetting that. Again, if you want more power and have a non-Leaf that can handle it, by all means get it. I mean no offense to you (if you can call it that), and I commend you for building an OpenEVSE, but it's sort of silly to discuss this from the point of view of someone who's buying a Model S. Who cares about a few grand for an EVSE and a few grand more to install a 100 amp or whatever circuit when you can afford a Tesla? I would probably approach it like you and build the budget-friendly and customizable OpenEVSE even if I could afford the S, but I imagine most Tesla buyers will also be installing Tesla EVSEs and not really paying any attention to the price.

Another interesting point you bring up about the OpenEVSE - you have the cheapest possible EVSE, but it has more capability than any of these $1000+ AVs or GEs or Clipper Creeks or what have you out on the market (I speak of the ability to select a current that's only shared by the SPX as far as I know, but also the very high potential power is absent outside of the very expensive Clipper Creeks.) Ironically, you don't even need that capability with the S - doesn't it let you set charging rate from the dash?

 

[mitch672]

The Model S sets the initial charging rate to whatever the pilot signal from the EVSE tells it is availble.
If the EVSE advertises 75A, that's what the Model S will set itself to. You can dial down the rate from the touchscreen, but you can't increase it beyond what the pilot signal advertises.

I did my own internal wiring in the garage from the sub-panel, I do have an electrician who assisted running the 125A service from the main service to the garage, he's a friend of mine so I bought all of the materials and he ran it one day back in November 2011. Not everyone who buys a Model S is wealthy, you don't have to be if you've saved up for a while.

 

[Reddy]

I am wading through the posts on EVSE's, and my brain is starting to melt.
I drive 15 to 20 miles most days, but sometimes need to go 60 or so. So far only using trickle charger but am considering the EVSE so I have that option.
Which one is best for this sort of use?

Here are some threads on L1 vs L2 and Phil's mods. Oh, now I see you've already seen some of these.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10450&p=238907#p238895
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10450&p=238907#p238907
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10965&p=252095#p252095
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7634&p=243033#p243033
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10318&p=236994#p236994
Well, my simple rule is L1 will easily work up to about 50 mi RT per day, even up here in the currently frigid NW. I have even done back-to-back days of 50+miles but that takes a bit of planning with the slow L1. As long as you don't have excessive TOU electricity costs, you should be fine with L1 only, but eventually you'll want to drive EV more. When that happens, get an electrician to put in a L6-20 plug in the garage and get Phil's upgrade.
Reddy

 

[SanDust]

I believe Nubo's point is that the average person drives something like 40 miles a day, and we should expect that to remain true regardless of how big his battery pack is. And 40 miles only takes 2-4 hours to replenish, even at 3.8kw. And in fact, it could even be argued that since you have more of a "reserve" with a big battery pack, you could get away with slower charging.

Yes, it's all about the number of miles you've driven. Pack size per se isn't that relevant.

In most instances it also won't matter if you happen to drive so many miles as to deplete the battery on day one. If you drove 150 miles on one day and depleted your battery, you could still charge at a lower rate so long as the on the next day you didn't drive that much. If the next day you drove 40 miles you'd still end up with more SOC than you started with on the day before.

The idea that charging at anything other than super off peak is also over-stated. The difference between off-peak and super off-peak is usually not that great. Certainly not so great as to make up for the cost of a much more expensive charger.

 

[smkettner]

I agree the larger the battery the less power is needed. I also agree the more miles driven on average the more you may need the faster charging. I am not big on future proofing, just get what is needed for the current vehicle.

 

[ebill3]

After all this, I wonder if KayfromLA heard enough to go out and purchase something, or contacted evseupgrade.com. :lol:

 

[planet4ever]

The idea that charging at anything other than super off peak is also over-stated. The difference between off-peak and super off-peak is usually not that great. Certainly not so great as to make up for the cost of a much more expensive charger.

The difference can be pretty significant. With PG&E schedule E9-A (EV, single meter) it can be up to nearly 14¢/kWh year round, depending on tier. If, say, you had to put in 5kWh/day outside the lowest rate time period, that could amount to nearly $200/year.

[PG&E doesn't have a "super off peak" rate. This is comparing off-peak to partial peak. Off peak on weekdays is from midnight to 7 AM. There should be no weekend penalty, since off peak is 20 hours/day. The difference is lower if you are using less than 130% of baseline. If you use gas heating 130% is about 14kWh/day total for house and car in typical urban areas, though that number varies by regional climate.]

Ray

 

[mrdcmills]

I just saw 3333 miles yesterday with 120V charger. The cheapest I've seen is about $550 for used ones on Ebay. Still got 37 to go on the lease. As volume goes up chargers will come down. Till then I'm sitting on my $$.