Should I Install a Home Level 2 Charger? Need Your HELP!

[lencap]

Greetings - Thanks to all for the help on this forum. I'm entering my 4th week of Leaf ownership on a two year 12,000 mile a year lease. I would like your opinion about Level 2 charging. I typically drive less than a 20 mile round trip to work, and another 10 miles during lunch. At lunch I have access to a free charging station where I eat lunch. Most of the time it's available, some times it's not. During lunch I can easily add 5-6 KW of charge, enough for 20+ miles of driving. There is also a Level 2 charger within walking distance to my office in a local outdoor mall. I do use their charger infrequently, and typically plug in when I arrive for work in the morning (8:30 AM or so) and disconnect in 2 hours or so to leave the space free for others.

Right now the trickle charger is fine, but as we enter colder fall/winter weather I'm concerned that I may need more home capacity. My 2 car garage is full - the Leaf remains outdoors. It's not practical to keep it in the garage and leave my other car outside. In the winter our climate is mild with temperatures generally above freezing for most of the winter, and rarely below freezing for more than a few days at a time. My reasons for home charging are many: (1) I dislike "using" the mall's charger since I'm not shopping there on a daily basis; (2) the lunch charger is not always available and as more EVs become available the situation will become worse; (3) I like driving the EV and would like to use it more, but I'm concerned about reaching the range limit during the weekend. A home charger would offset these issues.

On the other hand my home charging options aren't ideal. If I locate the EVSE "charger" near the circuit box that's on the very front of the garage. Even a 25' cord would barely leave enough length to charge the Leaf outdoors. Charging indoors (say at night when I get home and then moving the car outdoors when it's "full") and then parking outside without the charger connected (the length issue) limits my ability to start the climate control early in the morning on very hot/cold days, reducing the benefit of the home charger. Also, my Leaf is a leased car and if I don't keep it the cost of the EVSE is largely "wasted".

I am trying to wait until I have more experience with my driving patterns, but Aerovironment has a $799 special price on the 15' Charger that expires on May 31 - just a few days from today. If that charger will work (and I'd VERY MUCH like your opinions) then I'd like to take advantage of the lowered price. My concern is that saving $200 is nice, but having a charging station that is limited in use (the length issue) is a problem.

I can relocate the charging station in my garage to accommodate the needed length, but the electrician estimated that the cost to install a 40 AMP 6-3 grounded connection to the Aerovironment charger next to the circuit box is $250 or so. To run it the needed distance to the other location in the garage increases the estimated price to $850 (long run, under house/crawl space through walls). I don't want to incur that much of a cost.

Finally, I do believe that the "Leaf 2.0" may have a higher capacity battery, and that EVSE charging stations will fall in price in the coming years. I'd rather not spend a lot of money today if a more efficient/less expensive charging unit is available soon. I realize that waiting for the perfect Charging station isn't possible, but like computers the market is changing quickly.

So, what would you do and why?

Thanks for the help.

 

[ebill3]

With a 30 mile daily usage, your uncertainty about keeping the car after the lease ends, and your relatively mild winter temperatures, I would stick with the 120 volt charging. With that short of a commute, and the more efficient 2013 climate control, you ought to be fine.

If you find yourself coming up short, do something then, but I'll bet you get through the winter with no problems.

Suggestion: Modify your profile to show a location - city and state is nice. It often helps in discussions.

 

[michapok]

What about using the EVSE upgrade and having the electrician install a 220V outlet closer to the outside? Might be the cheapest route and still enable L2 charging. You probably don't need a 40A circuit either, but it may come in handy a few years down the line.

 

[smkettner]

If pulling wire I would go 50a circuit to the front of the house/garage.
Attach the evse of your choice.

Cry once and enjoy the vehicle so much more for the entire lease.

 

[lencap]

Thanks for the suggestions. The difference in price from a 30 AMP to 40 AMP service is not very much. The circuit breaker cost difference is minimal, the difference in 8-3 versus 6-3 cable is $3 or so a foot extra. So for the extra $120 or so I'd rather have 40 AMP service fully wired than 30 AMP if I locate it on the side wall inside the garage. The difference in locating it next to the circuit box is too small to worry about - I'd definitely go 6-3 with 40 AMP circuit.

Running a 220V circuit to the front of the garage is pretty expensive because of the house layout and the work needed to get there, while fully complying with building codes. It may cost over $1,100 to run the circuit to the front of the garage. That's an expense I'm not ready to accept at this point. The charge is for material (not that much extra) and hourly labor - a lot more extra (conduits under concrete, etc.).

Upgrading the EVSE to 240 volt isn't the best solution for me either, as I will still have to work around wet/cold/icy weather in the winter since the car will be outside and I'd rather avoid that.

Seems so far the thought is to do nothing until forced to make a decision.

Any other thoughts are welcome. I do want to make a decision before the Aerovironment sale ends on May 31.

 

[KJD]

I am trying to wait until I have more experience with my driving patterns, but Aerovironment has a $799 special price on the 15' Charger that expires on May 31 - just a few days from today. If that charger will work (and I'd VERY MUCH like your opinions) then I'd like to take advantage of the lowered price. My concern is that saving $200 is nice, but having a charging station that is limited in use (the length issue) is a problem.

You might be wise to wait a few weeks and get one of these Bosch units for about $450.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12744&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My charge station has a 15 foot cord and I wish I had picked one with a 25 foot cord instead.

 

[mrdcmills]

I've gone almost 11,000 miles with the 110V unit. Sounds like your trip isn't the extreme. I charge 80% Sun-Thurs and 100% Fri-Sat for extra range on the weekend.

 

[planet4ever]

Forget the $799 special. I don't think you will be happy with a 15' cable.

As others have said, 120v charging will "work" year round for you, if you are only using the car for commuting. The chances are, though, that you will find more and more uses for the LEAF as time goes on, and you may eventually wish you had faster charging. That's OK; you can delay the decision for later when you can make it with a lot more information under your belt.

Ray

 

[Arvind]

I wish I had read this thread two weeks ago. We spent over $2k getting a Chargepoint CT500 installed (city permit alone was $300). But my driving patterns are just like the thread author's. Moreover, I am noticing that 240v charging is giving me less range than 110v trickle charging -- looking into it. Best to stick with 110v and save your $ for when you feel a real need to charge faster.

 

[apvbguy]

I did the evse conversion/upgrade and installed a 240 outlet. If you have the money to burn I think it is money well spent. almost everyone here seems to being using their cars only as commuting buggys, I don't work and I like the ability to go 50 miles or so in the AM, come home charge for a few hours then go for a ride, and even repeat the process again. If you are constrained by only having a 110 trickle charge you are relegating yourself to only being able to use the car for 75 miles or so a day.
while upgrading to the 240v outlet is costly I think it is money that allows you to get more use out of your car and is well worth spending

 

[lencap]

Thanks for the additional comments and suggestions. I'm still considering the "best" solution, but a few things are becoming more clear: (1) Upgrading to a faster charger IS important if I want to expand the Leaf into a more than commuter usage pattern, (2) trying to save some money on the install is admirable, but looking solely at the expense and sacrificing function seems to be false economy.

So far I'm leaning toward not buying the discounted Aerovironment charger until I can fully determine if a 15' limit on the charging cord is too restrictive, or if I'm willing to spend the extra money to locate the charging station in a more functional portion of the garage. While I don't typically drive over 50 miles a day I did on the first weekend I bought the car. I arrived home with 20 miles on the GOM - no LBW - but it wasn't a comfortable drive knowing that I had limited range. Although those events aren't common, they are very limiting in how I'll use the car and that alone makes it worth considering options.

Finally, my son lives about 85 miles away, mostly interstate driving at 65+ MPH. I don't see any practical way to use the Leaf for this journey. There are no charging stations on the interstate, and the few that show up on various EV charging station maps seem to be limited to 1-2 chargers. I'm not overly comfortable with that array of charging options. Also at my son's home there isn't any convenient 240V outlet. His dryer is on the lower level and far beyond a 40 foot run to the driveway.

Any thoughts about how to consider making this trip other than waiting for the infrastructure to "catch up" to EV demands?

Again, thanks for the thoughts and suggestions they have clarified my thinking, even if they haven't helped my wallet!

 

[apvbguy]

that 85 mile trip is not possible at freeway speeds without charging at some point along the way. I've found that constant freeway speeds eats around 1/3 of your usable range

 

[ERG4ALL]

We use an L2 charger for half of the year and the L1, 120V trickle charger the rest of the year. Having used both, I'm glad that our summer home has the L2. We are about 15 miles out of town so it is easy to run up 50 miles in the morning running errands. The L2 allows us to charge the car for about three hours (about 10 kWh) and get close to replenishing what we used in the morning. Thus, we can go into town to visit friends or to go out to dinner in the evening.

Another point to keep in mind is what the future brings. Our 2011 LEAF has the 3.3 kW charger on board. Our next LEAF will have the 6.6 kW charger so we can charge twice as fast. This is good for any charging done in town and at home. As more public EVSEs become available the 6.6 will be even more desirable. Thus, as more and more of the future models become available with 6.6 kW chargers, you will want to have the 40A, 240V circuit rather than the 30A, 240V circuit. The 30A circuit does not give enough safety margin to run a 6.6 kW charger. That circuit would provide 7,200W while the car would require 6,600W which is not enough safety margin. I believe that is why Nissan changed their suggested specs. from a 30A circuit to a 40A circuit several years ago before the first LEAF was delivered in the U.S.

Regarding the future, keep in mind that sometime down the road the battery capacities may increase. If so the larger circuit may be even more desirable in order to fully charge a car in a reasonable length of time. For example, an 85 kWh battery (e.g. Tesla) would take over 25 hours to fully charge (with 3.3 kW charger) from fully discharged, whereas with a 6.6 kW charger the time would be cut in half or more practically, an overnight charge. This of course assumes that you need the extra range. If not and forever not, then this is a moot point.

Finally, is there any way that the LEAF could be stored in the garage? Colder temperatures do take their toll on range in winter weather. The batteries work best when they are not exposed to either temperature extreme.

 

[bradbissell]

If you do decide to get an L2 charger, get one with the longest cord possible. I just installed a Clipper Creek CS40 in the front of my garage and with the 25ft cord I can easily charge both outside and inside the garage depending on the weather and amount of kid toys in the garage. The extra cord length also makes it possible to charge on the other side of the driveway when someone is blocking my side of the garage. Just something to think about.

 

[kentuckyleaf]

What about using the EVSE upgrade and having the electrician install a 220V outlet closer to the outside? Might be the cheapest route and still enable L2 charging. You probably don't need a 40A circuit either, but it may come in handy a few years down the line.

Ditto michapok. If you get a 40A 240V circuit installed outside, you might find a welder or motorhome or something else to plug into it in the future. You will need GFCI though on an outdoor outlet, I'm not sure a welder would work on that

 

[planet4ever]

Finally, my son lives about 85 miles away, mostly interstate driving at 65+ MPH. I don't see any practical way to use the Leaf for this journey. There are no charging stations on the interstate, and the few that show up on various EV charging station maps seem to be limited to 1-2 chargers. I'm not overly comfortable with that array of charging options. Also at my son's home there isn't any convenient 240V outlet. His dryer is on the lower level and far beyond a 40 foot run to the driveway.

Any thoughts about how to consider making this trip other than waiting for the infrastructure to "catch up" to EV demands?

Our granddaughter (and great-grandkids) live about 87 miles from us, almost all freeway, though we can cut off 4 miles (and add a bit of time) by taking a back road part of the way. We have taken the LEAF to their home three times, with partial success, but it requires compromises. The key to the successful trips is that there is a Nissan dealer near their home, and a nice motel a block from the dealer. (Our granddaughter doesn't have room for us to sleep comfortably in their home.)

• First trip, 2011 LEAF nearly new: Drove all the way on the freeway both ways, but at 50-55 mph. We did stop in a town for a 1-hour boost on the way (at the city hall), mostly so my wife wouldn't be anxious about range, but also to stretch our legs and do a bit of window shopping. Arrived at the dealer with several miles range left and charged overnight (by prearrangement). I should have driven straight home, but I took a 5 mile detour to charge for an hour at another Nissan dealer. Turns out I got unplugged and replugged, so the timer kicked in and I got very little juice, but I made it, just barely.
• Second trip, a few months later: 55 mph, took the shortcut (about 35 mph), didn't stop to charge, and arrived at the dealer below the second low battery warning. Went straight home this time, again using the back road but holding my speed closer to 50 mph, and made it with no problem.
• Third trip: A Quick Charge station had been installed just off the freeway. It was in a perfect location, about 2/3 of the way from our home to granddaughter's. We decided to make the round trip in a single day. I charged at the QC, we spent time with family, got back to the QC, and someone had tripped the emergency shutoff. We ended up spending the night in a fleabag motel while the LEAF recharged at a Nissan dealer.

Truth be told, my wife hasn't wanted to try it again after that last experience, even though there are now several QCs along the route. So we've been driving the Prius.

Ray

 

[planet4ever]

Another point to keep in mind is what the future brings. Our 2011 LEAF has the 3.3 kW charger on board. Our next LEAF will have the 6.6 kW charger so we can charge twice as fast. This is good for any charging done in town and at home. As more public EVSEs become available the 6.6 will be even more desirable. Thus, as more and more of the future models become available with 6.6 kW chargers, you will want to have the 40A, 240V circuit rather than the 30A, 240V circuit. The 30A circuit does not give enough safety margin to run a 6.6 kW charger. That circuit would provide 7,200W while the car would require 6,600W which is not enough safety margin. I believe that is why Nissan changed their suggested specs. from a 30A circuit to a 40A circuit several years ago before the first LEAF was delivered in the U.S.

First, it wasn't that Nissan "changed their suggested specs." The national electric code requires that continuous charging be at no more than 80% of the circuit amperage. You are violating code if you pull more than 24A from a 30A circuit. Second, there is a logical fallacy in what you said. You don't need a faster EVSE just because the car has a faster charger or even a larger battery. You need a faster EVSE if the one you have won't provide the miles you need in the time you want them. When you are on the road you almost always want the most possible miles in the fastest possible time. That's why I paid extra for the 6 kW charger on my new S model. At home, some of us have valid requirements some of the time for faster charging, but for most of us overnight charging is quite adequate. That is why I am still happy as a clam with the gen 1 EVSEupgrade I got two and a half years ago from Phil, even though it provides only 12A.

Ray

 

[TomT]

Do remember this:

The old charger was 3.8 Kw INPUT and 3.3 Kw OUTPUT.
The new charger is 6.6 Kw INPUT but 6.0 Kw OUTPUT...

Nissan is playing somewhat loose and fancy free with the charger numbers (kind of like they do with range)...

 

[Nubo]

Finally, my son lives about 85 miles away, mostly interstate driving at 65+ MPH. I don't see any practical way to use the Leaf for this journey. There are no charging stations on the interstate, and the few that show up on various EV charging station maps seem to be limited to 1-2 chargers. I'm not overly comfortable with that array of charging options. Also at my son's home there isn't any convenient 240V outlet. His dryer is on the lower level and far beyond a 40 foot run to the driveway.

Any thoughts about how to consider making this trip other than waiting for the infrastructure to "catch up" to EV demands?

Hard to say. What town is the destination?

Generally when I want to really extend the range I choose back roads. It's a pleasurable way to get somewhere and does not take weeks to arrive, contrary to common perception.