Sharpened my pencils and prepared to do BATTLE at work today

[FairwoodRed]

Today, I got this in my inbox:

This is what Government Motors would like all of us to buy! I think NOT!


From Gov Motors [Obama’s surrogate]….you decide.


Remove politics from your mind and check the numbers here.

Eric Bolling (Fox Business Channel's Follow the Money) test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors.

For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.
Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles. It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

According to General Motors, the Volt battery hold 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.

The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh.

16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.

Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine only that gets 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.

The gasoline powered car cost about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000.

So GM wants us to pay 3 times as much for a car that costs more that 7 times as much to run and takes 3 times as long to drive across country.

REALLY?

and I couldn't let it go unanswered, so I replied to all with

Please recheck these numbers.

The electricity rate from Chugach is $0.139 per kWh.

The Volt battery pack is only 10.4 kWh usable (the rest is kept in reserve to prevent over/under charging).

The standard Volt charger runs at 3.3kW resulting in a full charge time of just over 3 hours.

The cost for a full charge is only $1.44 and more people get 40 miles per charge than get 25. Range does vary with how you drive and even the quoted 32mpg car can get only 20mpg if driven badly.

The Volt cost per mile is $0.036.

The current cost of gas in Anchorage is $3.99 and at 32mpg, the cost per mile is $0.125.

I own the Nissan Leaf. I don’t really care about the pollution; I care about the energy security and dollars. We have a lot of ways to make electricity - driving on it removes the influence of price fluctuations of a single commodity. If oil goes up, we burn more natural gas, if that also goes us, we burn more coal. And all most everything we burn to make electricity is domestic energy instead of coming from Middle Eastern countries that hate Americans.

The real benefit of electric cars is in the dollars. My last month of gas, I spent $450 at the pump. My car payment was $260, for a monthly total of $710. I’m now spending $50 per month on electricity for the car. My car payment, with no government incentives, is $505 for a total of $555. I’m saving $165 every month. If I trade in my car after a year or two and get another one, I’ll still be saving money every month. And as gas prices rise (China keeps buying more oil) I save even more every month.

As a real world electric car owner, I’ll be happy to discuss the benefits and drawbacks (yes, EV’s have their share of problems.) related to it. And if you’re passing thru SeaTac with a layover, I’ll be happy to show you my car so you can get firsthand experience and make up your own mind.

Some read with an open mind and were appreciative of my side, but. Well. Others responded like this

I despise electric vehicles and see no purpose in them other than to funnel my tax money to some government rent seeking worm.

I will never wait 10 hours to charge my vehicle when I can walk out and crank up my diesel to the tune of 360 hp and 650 ft-lbs of torque. I’m tired of all the chicken little eco-wackos telling me how to live my life when they have been wrong since they walked out of their bong induced haze. They are a vocal fringe element with good PR. It’s time to put the smackdown on hippies and tell them to suck my exhaust pipe.

That one will take everything I can muster...

 

[EdmondLeaf]

I always thought that Fox News is "No Spin Zone", now I see that maybe I was wrong.

What I am sure I will not take business advice from someone that pays $1.16 per kWh.

 

[TickTock]

I always thought that Fox News is "No Spin Zone", now I see that maybe I was wrong.
.

Wow. What rock have you been living under Faux News is to news as WWF is to wrestling. [Edit: changed "and" to "as"]

 

[EdmondLeaf]

I always thought that Fox News is "No Spin Zone", now I see that maybe I was wrong.
.

Wow. What rock have you been living under Faux News is to news and WWF is to wrestling.

I just want to be as much entertaining as Eric Bolling (Fox Business Channel's Follow the Money)

 

[TickTock]

I despise electric vehicles and see no purpose in them other than to funnel my tax money to some government rent seeking worm.

I will never wait 10 hours to charge my vehicle when I can walk out and crank up my diesel to the tune of 360 hp and 650 ft-lbs of torque. I’m tired of all the chicken little eco-wackos telling me how to live my life when they have been wrong since they walked out of their bong induced haze. They are a vocal fringe element with good PR. It’s time to put the smackdown on hippies and tell them to suck my exhaust pipe.

That one will take everything I can muster...

Don't even try with this one. No amount of information is going change his mind and he pretty much discredited his own statement for you.

 

[adric22]

Well, the good news is that I think the anti-EV movement is actually much smaller than it appears. They just seem to go out of their way to have a large online presence. I live in Ft.Worth, TX, right in the middle of hard-core republicans (of which I am one myself) and lovers of gas guzzlers. Despite this, I have not found anyone in person who is adamantly against electric vehicles. Most people are fascinated with my Leaf and many have said their next car will be an EV.

I think they'll be singing a different tune 5 years from now. Sure, they may still hate EVs but once they have been out long enough for a larger market acceptance it will greatly reduce the nonsense spewing from these people.

 

[keydiver]

I received that same email today, from a friend who also cc'd it to several other of our friends. Even though I had ZERO free time today I just had to "Reply All" to set the record straight. Who pays $1.16 per kWh??? :? There was just soooo much wrong information in that email, $1.16/kWh, only 25 miles per charge, 10 hours to charge, averaging only 20 mph if you include waiting to charge in your trip, $3.19 for gas, and more. What bothers me is that a few haters can spread so much misinformation. :x I let them know that my LEAF only costs .025/mile (if I didn't get free electrons from solar) and I don't expect any maintenance other than tires and windshield washer fluid for the next 8 years.

 

[CWO4Mann]

I despise electric vehicles and see no purpose in them other than to funnel my tax money to some government rent seeking worm.

I will never wait 10 hours to charge my vehicle when I can walk out and crank up my diesel to the tune of 360 hp and 650 ft-lbs of torque. I’m tired of all the chicken little eco-wackos telling me how to live my life when they have been wrong since they walked out of their bong induced haze. They are a vocal fringe element with good PR. It’s time to put the smackdown on hippies and tell them to suck my exhaust pipe.

That one will take everything I can muster...

Don't even try with this one. No amount of information is going change his mind and he pretty much discredited his own statement for you.

I particularly liked that "bong induced haze"; oh, and chicken little eco-wackos. Sorry to tell the guy but at the end of the day, Chicken Little was correct (read the book) Oh and BTW -- Dude, last time I smoked the green weed was almost 40 years ago and we were using an M79 grenade launcher barrel for a bong.

Some folks just have their alleged minds made up. It reminded me of my dear Southern Grandmother, who lived to be 102 years old, born in 1860, died in 1962 ( probably due to the shock of JFK being elected) "I don't care what you say, those Catholics worship the devil.".

As far as his prejudices are concerned, notice how he brings in "suck my exhaust pipe" .. a little homo-phobia there I suspect, hummmmm? After gas is $20 a gallon I wonder if he will be a Bottom Bitch for a couple of gallons of go-juice ... heh heh heh

 

[CWO4Mann]

Well, the good news is that I think the anti-EV movement is actually much smaller than it appears. They just seem to go out of their way to have a large online presence. I live in Ft.Worth, TX, right in the middle of hard-core republicans (of which I am one myself) and lovers of gas guzzlers. Despite this, I have not found anyone in person who is adamantly against electric vehicles. Most people are fascinated with my Leaf and many have said their next car will be an EV.

I think they'll be singing a different tune 5 years from now. Sure, they may still hate EVs but once they have been out long enough for a larger market acceptance it will greatly reduce the nonsense spewing from these people.

I think it is incorrect to single out "hard-core Republicans" as the targets here. I am a gun-toting, ultra-conservative survivalist prepper but so far from being a Republican that even Goldwater and Curtis LeMay wouldn't recognize me. See, I think it is the personality type rather than the political party. Of course, these nut-jobs seem to gravitate to Rush and Glen and O'Reilly for some reason. Almost as if they simply don't want to hear the "other side of the story". It would be too damaging to their belief system is suddenly they were forced to realize that Electric vehicles are one of the most advanced and best ways to combat pollution, enriching capitalistic wall-street war-mongering roader puppets of Big Oil and their minions.

Just sayin ' ....

 

[Fabio]

The current crop of GOPs in the senate and congress, and their mouthpiece in the media, seem to be supportive of "capitalistic wall-street war-mongering roader puppets of Big Oil", thus one is left to assume that the people who elect them are as well. Or maybe they are misinformed?

I think it is incorrect to single out "hard-core Republicans" as the targets here. I am a gun-toting, ultra-conservative survivalist prepper but so far from being a Republican that even Goldwater and Curtis LeMay wouldn't recognize me. See, I think it is the personality type rather than the political party. Of course, these nut-jobs seem to gravitate to Rush and Glen and O'Reilly for some reason. Almost as if they simply don't want to hear the "other side of the story". It would be too damaging to their belief system is suddenly they were forced to realize that Electric vehicles are one of the most advanced and best ways to combat pollution, enriching capitalistic wall-street war-mongering roader puppets of Big Oil and their minions.

Just sayin ' ....

 

[FairwoodRed]

So, After a flurry of company emails, 3 changed thier mind and are no longer against EVs, 2 still hate them (mostly because of the federal rebate) and the most interesting one is still upset that the FED's bailed out GM - however he wishes me well with my car

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I found the second Eric Bolling video. Incorrect calculations and guffawing aside how come he only got 25 miles on electric? Sounds low, was that with the heat on? That chick who said she is afraid of breaking down in the tunnel is clueless though.

Also, bad idea to give someone an EV (or BHEV or whatever) and have them form their opinion on L1 charging. Grabbing the L2 cord off the wall and jamming it in the car is quick and easy, but it would be a pain to be plugging/unplugging both ends and stowing the L1 each time, not to mention the slow charge time.

I agree though there are people who are making a living in the "news entertainment" industry by having it in for these cars.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

At a limited L1 rate, it's possible he was not getting a full charge each night. the best thing we can do is correct the misinformation every chance we get. Ironically, I've found some of the loudest folks are, underneath it all, potential EV owners who just need real information. IMHO, the one's that are hardest to get through to are the ones who just don't give a crap about any of this.

I found the second Eric Bolling video. Incorrect calculations and guffawing aside how come he only got 25 miles on electric? Sounds low, was that with the heat on? That chick who said she is afraid of breaking down in the tunnel is clueless though.

Also, bad idea to give someone an EV (or BHEV or whatever) and have them form their opinion on L1 charging. Grabbing the L2 cord off the wall and jamming it in the car is quick and easy, but it would be a pain to be plugging/unplugging both ends and stowing the L1 each time, not to mention the slow charge time.

I agree though there are people who are making a living in the "news entertainment" industry by having it in for these cars.

 

[smkettner]

You don't have to convince everyone. Even if EVs can get 10% market share the effect will be huge.
And by then the haters will just look dumb.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

You don't have to convince everyone. Even if EVs can get 10% market share the effect will be huge.
And by then the haters will just look dumb.

Assuming about 13M new car sales annually in the US, if the Smyrna plant can crank out 150k units a year, that's more like 1%. Of course other mfrs should be adding substantially to that supply, but with a dozen BMWs, 6 FFEs, and a few hundred FIT-e and mievs in the mix they sure don't seem to be in any hurry. Oh I forgot to mention Audi's contribution to the "dialog", so that's like 10 more.

 

[adric22]

You don't have to convince everyone. Even if EVs can get 10% market share the effect will be huge.
And by then the haters will just look dumb.

Assuming about 13M new car sales annually in the US, if the Smyrna plant can crank out 150k units a year, that's more like 1%. Of course other mfrs should be adding substantially to that supply, but with a dozen BMWs, 6 FFEs, and a few hundred FIT-e and mievs in the mix they sure don't seem to be in any hurry. Oh I forgot to mention Audi's contribution to the "dialog", so that's like 10 more.

Even 1% is a pretty big penetration. Just look at it this way, right now I think all hybrids put together make about 2% of new car sales.

Ultimately, though, when looking at an existing base of vehicles on the road, the EV has another advantage. After 10 years, the EV is more likely to stay on the road, even if it has minor damage that must be repaired. Other cars will go to the junk yard a bit more easily. Part of the reason I say this is due to the predicted longevity of the vehicles. But the other part is the fact that as gas prices continue to rise, fuel efficient cars seem to be more likely to be kept on the road.

I wonder how many cars are sitting in junk yards simply because of a badly smoking engine, or a bad transmission? Quite a few, actually. Many years ago I converted a car to electric and I walked through many junk yards to find the exact type of vehicle I wanted. I looked at quite a few that really had no discernible body damage and appeared to be fully intact. The reason they were there was most likely because of mechanical issues that were more costly to fix than the vehicle's value. This is a situation I think is less likely to occur with an EV, even if it is the main battery that needs replacing.

Anyway, the point is, the number of EVs on the road in 20 years may be dis-proportionate to the number being manufactured in comparison with ICE vehicles. That is my guess.

 

[smkettner]

See now your burden is lifted further. Less tham 1% need to believe in EVs to sell them all.
I do believe production will increase every year that all can be easily sold.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

See now your burden is lifted further. Less tham 1% need to believe in EVs to sell them all.
I do believe production will increase every year that all can be easily sold.

If they could get the range to 300 miles and a modest cost reduction it would be game on.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

After 10 years, the EV is more likely to stay on the road

I have heard that is the case with golf carts. The gas ones are done after 10 years, not worth fixing, while the electric carts just get new batteries and sent back out on the course.

Something I will be very interested to see is how some of the more minor under hood aspects hold up on the Leaf. On most cars it isn't the metal parts that go, it's all that rubber stuff. Seals, hoses, motor mounts, you name it. Since the Leaf doesn't have all that heat under they hood the rubber stuff that is there may last a lot longer. Maybe even CV joint boots. Time will tell.

 

[Caracalover]

...when I can walk out and crank up my diesel to the tune of 360 hp and 650 ft-lbs of torque. I’m tired of all the chicken little eco-wackos telling me how to live my life when they have been wrong since they walked out of their bong induced haze. They are a vocal fringe element with good PR. It’s time to put the smackdown on hippies and tell them to suck my exhaust pipe.

That one will take everything I can muster...[/quote]

Five words that will shut this guy up. - Saudi Arabia loves your attitude.

If you must say more, add that the tallest building in the world is being built from the money oil is giving Saudi Arabia.

No need muster more, or dig deeper. Memories of the Twin Towers will haunt him without being mentioned.