San Diego DC Charge Non-Profit Organization (was Oct 1 meet)

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TonyWilliams said:
Thanks to everybody who came. We took a little test that you can participate in at this thread.


f7020a8b.jpg
Wow! seems exciting! I'm sorry to have missed this LEAF gathering - I was out of town. I came for the 1st time at the last meeting in Mira Mesa (HTB) and at that time, I was still waiting for my ordered car. A bit has happened to me since that first meeting: I took an orphan http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5364" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and made some upgrades: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5963" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I hope to make it to the next gathering.
 
Hey! Those are new signs over the charging spaces. They now say no parking, which would imply that it's at least possible to get a ticket for ICEing the spaces!
 
TonyWilliams said:
Nov 12, 2011: Also, planning for the Nissan Electric Tour in San Diego, place and time to be determined by Nissan. Let's meet and greet potential new LEAF owners with actual cars and owners!

A word of caution. I'm sure that Nissan won't mind you being there, but they have a job to do at these events. Please be cautious so as to not to make a nuisance of yourselves, especially since the volume of LEAFs in SD is so much higher than anyplace else right now - you could overwhelm the site. And please don't try to butt in on a carefully rehearsed sales pitch with commentary of your own, even if you hear something you find to be incorrect or otherwise disagree with.
 
mwalsh said:
A word of caution. I'm sure that Nissan won't mind you being there, but they have a job to do at these events. Please be cautious so as to not to make a nuisance of yourselves, especially since the volume of LEAFs in SD is so much higher than anyplace else right now - you could overwhelm the site. And please don't try to butt in on a carefully rehearsed sales pitch with commentary of your own, even if you hear something you find to be incorrect or otherwise disagree with.

Good advice, although I really didn't envision an ambush of their event!!

Separate events, side by side. We could offer the extended ride that they didn't get from Nissan, for instance.
 
Had to miss the event because the San Diego Green houses tour was at the exact same time. I saw 2 Leafs on the tour - one being charged primarily by credits from the PV system. There were a lot of good ideas. However, my plan to charge the Leaf directly form PV-battery-Leaf was shot down as I was told that the Leaf onboard connectors would not talk to the battery pack and a controller would have to be designed - at a cost of thousands!
 
This forum isn't a good venue to get into the details of my cost estimates, but here are my conclusions about different quick charge approaches.

The EV Project

The nicest thing would be to sit back and do nothing, and have Ecotality install hundreds of quick charge stations for us. I wouldn't count on it. After trying to come up with a workable scheme for a non-profit to install quick chargers I have a much better appreciation of the obstacles that Ecotality faces. And after talking with Andy Hoskinson at this meeting, who by the way is a fellow Leaf owner, I do believe that they are trying their hardest and are probably making a bit of progress. But I think we need more, faster, and having a non-profit would be to our benefit.

Full L3 (49 kW) grid connected

Impractical. There's no price that enough people would be willing to pay to get enough customers to recover the SDG&E demand charge.

Full L3 (49 kW) grid connected with demand management

If sited at a host business with 250,000 sq ft of commercial space, and tied into their building demand management system, it's plausible that our incremental demand charge would be quite manageable with modest use fees. But finding cooperative host businesses, tying into their electric supplies, and signing fair charge-back agreements, could be daunting. To amortize the demand charge across as many uses as possible, the charger should be open to the public, with one fee for non-member registered users and a lower fee for non-profit members who invested in the endeavor. This seems the best long term option, but better suited for Ecotality to pursue than a non-profit group of amateurs.

Full L3 (49 kW) natural gas generator powered

This is the best full L3 option for a non-profit. To meet CARB rules it would have to move occasionally, but that could be an advantage rather than a disadvantage as it would let us test different locations. Eventually for-profit quick charge stations could locate at the places we identified as best. Capital costs would be higher than grid powered, so we'd need more members initially to get started. And since we'd want higher utilization to spread the cost, we'd need to open it to the public, with all the attendant extra costs.

Full L3 (49 kW) grid connected, demand clipped with on-site storage battery

Impractical. Capital costs are the highest. You'd need high utilization to amortize those costs, but since it takes time for the battery to recharge at 20 kW you can't get high utilization. It would be fine for low utilization, but then the cost per charge is excessive.

L3- (18.3 kW) grid connected

I think it would still charge quickly enough to be useful, without incurring the crippling SDG&E demand charges. Capital costs would be low enough that more sites could be installed. With no demand charge and lower capital costs you don't need to drive the utilization up. And because it's slower you want the utilization lower to provide better quality of service. So for this option you'd want the chargers to be accessible to members only, which could also avoid a lot of costs and complications. We could get started with a smaller number of members, and add more locations as more people joined.
 
(Posted to mynissanleaf and facebook)

Here are some questions facing us as we contemplate forming an organization to install quick charger(s) in San Diego. Many of these questions are inter-related and can't simply be answered in linear sequence. Once we answer the questions we should be able to write a first draft of bylaws.

=== How to communicate? ==============

Communication must work among the most active people and also with the mildly interested people who don't spend a lot of time on this issue but who we hope will decide to invest in the venture. Meetings in person and Yahoo Groups are particularly good for communication among active participants. Facebook looks somewhat better than either for communication with people with the same interest but less time to devote. Mynissanleaf.com is best to reach people who aren't involved but would be if only they knew what we're trying to do. We'll need a mix of these methods.

=== Form a non-profit corporation? ==============

We should incorporate a 501(c)(3) California Mutual Benefit Corporation.

=== Legal professional help? ==============

We may get started with do-it-yourself efforts using resources such as Nolo, http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nonprofits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . Eventually we would need professional help. It would sure be nice if an attorney were among our initial members, or if some attorney would be willing to help us pro bono.

=== Accounting professional help? ==============

We can get started with do-it-yourself efforts. We probably would want a CPA to review our books for income tax filings (required even for non-profits not paying taxes).

=== Meeting frequency, location, proxies, and quorum? ==============

The more often we meet the faster things can get done - to a point. But the more often we meet the more likely more members are to be excluded from important decisions. How many members need to attend a meeting for us to feel that decisions appropriately reflect the consensus of the group?

=== Action taken without a meeting? ==============

In what circumstances could we make decisions outside meetings, e.g. via email ballot, and how would such votes be conducted?

=== What offices? ==============

Even when we first start out with just a few members, officers can be useful. E.g., banks like to have officers to put names on the signature card. If we grow to 100 members or more, it will be very difficult to take any action by consensus.

=== Election of officers? ==============

How, when, and at what interval do we nominate and elect officers?

=== Board of directors? ==============

When we're very small each major decision can be voted on by all members. When we're larger that will get very difficult, and it will be convenient to have an elected board of directors to run the day to day operations of the non-profit. How, when, and at what interval do we nominate and elect board members? And if we have a board of directors, should the officers be elected by the board or by the members?

=== Resignation, removal, and replacement of officers and directors?

When someone leaves, how is their position filled? Typically the board will have discretion to fill the position. If it is close to the next election the board may leave the position vacant, and if it is far from the next election the board may appoint someone to serve until that election.

Resignation is the usual way a position becomes vacant. But it may happen that someone acts against the interests of the organization. Or someone may not have the time and interest to devote to the organization which they anticipated, and repeatedly misses meetings and neglects duties. If they do not resign, they may have to be removed, and there must be a clear and fair process for doing so.

=== Conflict of interest policy? ==============

We may be more likely than most non-profits to have conflicts of interest, because many of the people who would be most valuable to us in leadership positions have jobs involved with parallel goals. E.g., employees of SDG&E, Ecotality, 350Green, Coulomb, Aerovironment, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and dealers. Conflicts of interest just need to be disclosed, and people need to recuse themselves from decisions taken where they have a direct conflict.

=== Record maintenance? ==============

Non-profits must maintain certain records. If we use a Yahoo group, Google group, or dedicated website and do all our business there, then all our records are automatically collected. If we do business via Facebook, mynissanleaf, and/or private emails then we need to plan how to maintain the necessary records.

=== Access to information by members and by the general public? ========

Do we want all information to be accessible to the general public? Or should certain information be accessible only to members? Only if we grew so big that we had paid staff would we need to deal with personnel information restricted to the board and officers in executive session and to designated officers. I don't think that's likely to happen. If there were any legal issues then that information would be restricted to the board and officers in executive session.

=== Initiation fee? Annual dues? ==============

We talked about $1,800 initiation, as equal to $50 per month for 3 years, and about one fourth of the $7,500 federal EV rebate. I think we might go a bit higher, like $2,500 - still only a third of what we're getting back. It would let us get started with fewer members. But then increasing the amount might reduce the number of prospective members. And the higher the initial amount the harder it is to handle some contingencies fairly, e.g. people leaving the area, extreme growth of the organization, shrinkage of the organization, and the end of this organization.

A related question is whether there should be annual dues, and if so how much? I think not, since I favor fees to charge.

=== Single or multiple class of membership? ==============

Non-profits are easier to manage with a single class of membership. Some have multiple classes with different amounts of dues gaining different levels of benefit. It's possible we could do something like that if there were a few people willing to pay quite a bit and many people willing to pay much less. But it would be very tricky to fairly define the voting rights and the charging rights.

=== Federal or state grants? ==============

Would a non-profit with our chartered purpose be eligible for any government grants? If so, would it be worth our while to seek them in view of any attendant paperwork and restrictions?

=== Insurance? ==============

We would need officer and director liability insurance, which is fairly inexpensive. We might also need general liability insurance against the possibility of equipment malfunction or misuse resulting in injury or property damage. It might make a big difference in cost whether our charger(s) were open to the public or to members only, and how well responsibilities were spelled out in the membership agreement and/or the agreement for registered non-member users.

=== Budget? ==============

From all of this we should be able to make a budget.

=== Number and type of chargers? ==============

How many people are willing to join and put up how much money will determine the chargers we can get. I think only two types of chargers might make sense. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=137884#p137884" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(1) Natural gas fueled full L3 chargers. These cost more, and we'd have fewer of them. We'd want them used as much as possible, and so would probably want to open them to non-members. (2) Grid powered "L3-" chargers of 20 kW or less. These cost less, are slower, and we'd have more of them. We'd want them used less and would probably restrict them to members only.

If there were little hope of the EV Project succeeding in placing full L3 chargers then I'd incline towards (1) partly as a public benefit, partly because that public benefit would grow the EV population and increase our commercial charging opportunities, and partly because ours would be the only truly "quick" chargers in the region. Because I think there is hope for the EV Project I'm inclined towards (2).

=== Provide charging to members only, or also to non-member registered users?

If we allow non-member registered users to charge, we need network connected chargers with integrated payment system like Blink's or Chargepoint's. We'd also need more legal and insurance work, and possibly additional ADA compliance issues.

=== Location(s) of charger(s) ==============

Everyone should have a vote, one vote for each unit we can afford to install. Start by collecting all nominated locations and do "preference voting" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_voting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to iteratively eliminate the least liked locations until we are left with just the right number. Understand that it's likely that at some of our preferred locations we will not be able to secure a suitable host or a suitable site, and we may need to vote again on a substitute location.

=== Charging fees? ==============

Member and non-member amounts if applicable. Per use, per time, or per kWh?

Even though we've already paid in advance through our initiation fees, I think we also need to pay per charge to avoid the "tragedy of the commons," http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . In order that the chargers be available to members who really need them, we need to pay not just the 10 cents per kWh that the non-profit will pay for electricity, but the 30 cents per kWh that is our alternative if we instead charge at home during peak TOU hours.

=== Charging reservation process? ==============

For a small membership something simple like making entries in a shared Google calendar would work fine. Most of the time you could probably show up without a reservation and find the charger free. If we had a large registered user base then we'd need a more robust reservation process like Chargepoint's.

=== Powers of officers? ==============

What actions and decisions can officers take? E.g., contract with an attorney or accountant. File taxes. Sign checks up to a given amount. Call meetings. Call elections.

=== Powers of board of directors? ==============

What actions and decisions can the board take? E.g., elect and remove officers. Authorize expenditures up to a given amount. Select vendors. Change bylaws? Expel member?

=== Powers of a majority of members? ==============

What actions and decisions are reserved to the membership as a whole? E.g. select preferred charger locations. Select preferred types of chargers. Elect and remove board members. Change bylaws? Move charger? Change membership initiation fee/dues?

=== Powers of a super-majority of members? ==============

What actions should require a super-majority of members? And how many? E.g. dissolve corporation. Change bylaws?

=== What if initiation fees or dues are increased or decreased? ======

If initiation fees are increased, do existing members owe the difference? If they are decreased, are existing members refunded the difference? Is it even legal to do so?

=== Eligibility of membership? ==============

Nissan Leaf owners. Mitsubishi iMiev owners. Anyone with a Chademo socket? Leaf owners without a Chademo? Prospective Leaf owners? Anyone who wants to join and for some reason is willing to pay?

=== Resignation of membership? ==============

If someone leaves the organization, e.g. if they're moving to another city or selling their Leaf, do they get anything back from their initiation fees? Could we legally give them anything back even if we wanted to? How much?

=== Transfer of membership? ==============

Suppose someone sells a Leaf and wants to transfer the membership to the new owner. Is that allowed? What if they're moving to another city, but find a new Leaf owner willing to pick up their membership. Is that allowed?

=== Expulsion of a member? ==============

What is the due process for expelling a member for cause? E.g., repeated and flagrant interference with the adopted reservation policy, repeated and flagrant misuse of the equipment resulting in damage. It's very unlikely we'd ever need this section of bylaws, but if we did need it we wouldn't want to force the board and officers to make up policy on the fly, exposing themselves and us to possible legal action.

=== Dissolution of the corporation? ==============

Unlike most organizations I think we're all looking forward to the time when this one can cease to exist. There will be plenty of public and commercial chargers, and no more need for our group. When the corporation is dissolved the assets cannot be distributed to members, but must be donated to another non-profit. There are good choices such as CCSE, Plugin America, and AAA.
 
Lots of great thoughts, and I'll try to address as many as I can in another post.

But, we need a name !!!!! For a logo, how about the transformer symbol, or the atomic symbol?

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transformer.gif


transfor.gif


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I think NOT the atomic symbol.

Getting a group (mostly in San Diego) to install and maintain an AQC (Almost Quick Charger) at the North end of the San Fernando Valley might be a problem.

You might need a way to allow members to "subscribe" to (to support) the stations of likely interest to the member. Then, when you get enough "tentative" subscriptions to a feasible location, you buy a new "charging" truck and move some truck to the new location. Thus, including the new location in the truck-tag circular relay.

Perhapa a logo of a circle of 3 (or 4?) curved pigtails with plugs, chacing each other around in a circle?

Do the trucks actually have to move occasionally, or must they just be capable of moving?

If moving is required, how far and how often?

Do you Really want to create CO2 burning natural gas?
 
I've been involved with a few different types of non-profits, and have actually written Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws for two (one, an LLC for an aircraft partnership, and the other for a Labor Union). My wife is an attorney, and a CPA (and now a judge), so she has a few contacts to help review anything we do.

The way I'd envision most of that business end of the company initial development is with a small, core group of folks who actually produce the required documents, and provide them to the membership for ratification (vote). Absolutely, the organization needs all the post holders you suggest.

I would separate the equity investment ($1800 - $2500 per share) from membership, which could be $1 for a shareholder and some other (probably huge) number for a non-shareholder. Each share has one vote. One person / company / etc can own own or more shares. Each share is eligible for a $1 membership, applicable to one non-commercial use automobile. We sure don't want a member like Fedex showing up with a fleet of Smith Electric Vans.

Insurance is huge, and it alone could make or break the endeavor, much like the SDGE demand fee. Offering our equipment to the unwashed masses (without a signed liability disclaimer) is just asking for any number of future law suites. Just defending a single one, and WINNING, could be bankruptcy for us.

I can foresee the "my battery has lost range, and it's all because of those DC chargers that you didn't warn me about", or any number of really silly crap that folks dream up. A membership tends to lock down the expectations, and mitigate the eventual legal issues. Imagine the goober who drops that big ChaDeMo plug on his toes! Sue !!!

I probably would not insure against malfunction from our equipment, but there needs to be something for the accusation of damage to anybody else's equipment / person / etc.

walterbays said:
=== Insurance? ==============

We would need officer and director liability insurance, which is fairly inexpensive. We might also need general liability insurance against the possibility of equipment malfunction or misuse resulting in injury or property damage. It might make a big difference in cost whether our charger(s) were open to the public or to members only, and how well responsibilities were spelled out in the membership agreement and/or the agreement for registered non-member users.
 
garygid said:
Getting a group (mostly in San Diego) to install and maintain an AQC (Almost Quick Charger) at the North end of the San Fernando Valley might be a problem.
You raise a good point! Many San Diegans would have an interest in QC/AQC at the south end of LA/OC so we could easily travel there, and many LA/OC people would have an interest in QC/AQC at the north end of San Diego. Probably there are the same considerations east-west in the LA area. So what is the "territory" of a non-profit, and how many non-profits are there? If there are separate non-profits then to travel in southern California do you have to join multiple ones? Or do they all offer non-member usage? Or do they have reciprocal exchange agreements?

Probably the "territory" of a non-profit is the easiest question to answer. It's those charger locations most favored by those willing to put up money. Even that has complications. You probably wouldn't want to join and pay your money "blindly" and then vote on locations, only to find out there will never be even a single location you can use.

Do you Really want to create CO2 burning natural gas?
No. But that's the only feasible option for QC left to us by PUC policy (demand charges). That PUC policy probably also has a lot to do with why there is only one QC station in California while other states are quickly passing us by. The only places a grid powered QC station could be located would be at a large commercial facility whose load under demand management far exceeded the additional load of the QC station.

Even so, a thousand Leafs charging at home from the grid 95% of the time and charging at a natural gas QC station 5% of the time would probably emit much less CO2 than a thousand ICEs.

The 20 kW AQC stations wouldn't have the CO2 problem or the demand charge problem.
 
garygid said:
Do the trucks actually have to move occasionally, or must they just be capable of moving?

If moving is required, how far and how often?

Do you Really want to create CO2 burning natural gas?

They have to be "portable". Non portable is more than 60 days, at which time you're supposed to be hooked up to grid power. So, how far to move? Don't know, but I'd make sure it wasn't some sham that got the organization slapped with a $10k fine.

SDGE uses natural gas burning generators, as does many utilities, for peak demand loads. Nissan uses a diesel generator on the "Drive Electric Tour" for their 50kW DC charger.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Separate events, side by side. We could offer the extended ride that they didn't get from Nissan, for instance.

Now an official invitation from Nissan to participate. See thread:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1164&start=277" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Get your participants to call in and RSVP.
 
I can't yet post to the Facebook page, but great work on the chart. I've placed numbers at what I think are the logical locations within the county, and added two to the northern most points along the two corridors, 5 and 15 freeways. Perhaps, folks could place in order of preference where they would like to see a first DC charger installation, a second one, third, etc.

Or added of move a specific location:

LEAFpossibleDCchargeLocations1.jpg
 
Apparently SDG&E is trying to get CPUC's permission to raise rates to obtain extra revenue to support a project that would install about 10 public QC starions (and several hundred L2 stations) each year for 4 years.

No mention (that I have yet seen) of what it would cost to use them, or install and maintain them.
 
Whoa! How about a quick start using funds already available from the U.S. Government?

The kick-off initiative would be to place L3/L2 combination chargers in the rest stops along the Interstate highways. They already have electric connectivity for lighting which may not even need an upgrade to add a few chargers. So, the Government already owns the land, already has a maintenance contract that could be expanded to include the chargers and already has funding available for renewable energy projects to purchase and install the equipment.
 
electricfuture said:
Whoa! How about a quick start using funds already available from the U.S. Government?

Yes, there are folks with access to over $100 million in Obama Bucks. They have until 31 Dec 2011 to spend that on "free" chargers. We'll let ya know how that worked out on 1 Jan 2012.


The kick-off initiative would be to place L3/L2 combination chargers in the rest stops along the Interstate highways.

Sounds like an awesome plan, except, to my knowledge, the only rest areas in San Diego are one set on Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base. We'd have exactly that many chargers.
 
garygid said:
Apparently SDG&E is trying to get CPUC's permission to raise rates to obtain extra revenue to support a project that would install about 10 public QC starions (and several hundred L2 stations) each year for 4 years.

I spoke today at the hearing at 2pm. I commented on the demand fee, and how it inhibits EV car charger growth, and supported SDGE's charger idea .... WITH RESTRICTIONS.

I recommended that there be a sunset clause, and that all the infrastructure installed by SDGE be divested at that point.

Then I commented on the $1100/year solar "grid fee". How solar helps peak grid load, how SDGE makes money off the energy that residential solar supplies them, doesn't require big high voltage wires strung all over, doesn't require a bigger wire to my house, or a bigger transformer, etc.
 
TonyWilliams said:
electricfuture said:
The kick-off initiative would be to place L3/L2 combination chargers in the rest stops along the Interstate highways.

Sounds like an awesome plan, except, to my knowledge, the only rest areas in San Diego are one set on Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base. We'd have exactly that many chargers.
There is another rest area on the 8 just west of Pine Valley at Buckman Springs Rd.

There is also a view point turnout on the 5 south in Cardiff that could serve such a purpose, if power supply is adequate (not sure about that.) There are plenty of other state/federal/county-owned sites around town that could be used without too much hassle besides rest areas, though, it seems to me. UCSD sticks out in my mind. Why isn't there a Blink QC there yet open to the public? They are perfectly located just off the major transportation corridor and definitely receptive to the clean-tech idea. It's a no-brainer, but nothing yet. Why? Same could be said for SDSU, or any of the community colleges. I realize they just got UL listing on the Blink QC, but the groundwork for installations should have already been laid and installations proceeding by now. I will be very interested in hearing what Ecotality has to say on the 16th. :evil:

TT
 
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