Red Flag Rule/Law?

[folla]

After my PD called today to say our Leaf had arrived I went down to the dealership with the intent of getting the purchase process started. My intent is to finance the vehicle through my lender (NOT through the dealer/NMAC).

I asked the dealership for a purchase order that I could take back to my lender to get the loan approved and the cashier's check cut. They were willing to provide the P.O. but stated that they needed my SSN even though I was going to purchase the Leaf with a cashier's check. When asked why, the manager of the finance department stated they were required to do so because of the Red Flag Rules/law.

I wasn't familiar with the particulars of the Red Flag law/rule but after I left the dealership I researched the Red Flag rule a bit and as near as I can tell it isn't applicable if I'm not financing the purchase through the dealership/NMAC.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with their PD or have any experience with this interpretation of "Red Flag Rules"?

Thanks.

 

[sdbonez]

I'm not familiar with the 'reg flag rule' but I will say that most dealer financing people are only experienced with their processes - and not experienced in deviating from them.

Specific to my SSN, I get asked for it a lot. I always refuse and ask how I can complete the process without it. In many cases, there are laws on the books that require an alternate process. On the side, I have all of the credit agencies keep my credit locked/on fraud watch.

It's kind of like being asked for ID for your when you pay with a credit card. All of the credit card companies prohibit merchants from making an ID a condition of card acceptance for a purchase.

 

[Carlos]

Has anyone else had a similar experience with their PD or have any experience with this interpretation of "Red Flag Rules"?

Thanks.

No similar experience thank goodness. It looks like a bunch of red tape but necessary in a bureaucratic way.

http://www.acc-az.com/redfaq.pdf

 

[DarkStar]

After my PD called today to say our Leaf had arrived I went down to the dealership with the intent of getting the purchase process started. My intent is to finance the vehicle through my lender (NOT through the dealer/NMAC).

I asked the dealership for a purchase order that I could take back to my lender to get the loan approved and the cashier's check cut. They were willing to provide the P.O. but stated that they needed my SSN even though I was going to purchase the Leaf with a cashier's check. When asked why, the manager of the finance department stated they were required to do so because of the Red Flag Rules/law.

I wasn't familiar with the particulars of the Red Flag law/rule but after I left the dealership I researched the Red Flag rule a bit and as near as I can tell it isn't applicable if I'm not financing the purchase through the dealership/NMAC.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with their PD or have any experience with this interpretation of "Red Flag Rules"?

Thanks.

As with my experience when I picked up my Leaf, they will require your SSN and will perform a credit check through NMAC. They don't care if you're pre-approved or not and will gladly sell your car to the next guy if you don't buy it. :?

I'm almost 100% sure that Nissan uses this to data-mine information about their customer base for various purposes, but then again, it doesn't matter if they lie about the reason or not since it is still an "at will" transaction.

Can we legally buy a car without providing any personal info to the dealer? Yes! However, they aren't required to sell you the vehicle if you don't "meet their requirements."

 

[smkettner]

Unless you have cash on the barrel I would count on giving the personal info and agreeing to a credit check.
I plan to write a personal check but fully expect to submit the credit application.
Maybe you could avoid disclosure and credit check with a direct wire transfer.

The check is the standard method to verify who you are and what you are made of incase they need to go looking for you or the car.

 

[AmarilloLeaf]

Has anyone else had a similar experience with their PD or have any experience with this interpretation of "Red Flag Rules"?

Thanks.

No similar experience thank goodness. It looks like a bunch of red tape but necessary in a bureaucratic way.

http://www.acc-az.com/redfaq.pdf

My particular profession (medical office) was targeted by the FTC as requiring the 'Red Flag Rules' but at the last minute the order was rescinded. Red Flag rules are designed to detect fraud and identity theft.

Essentially, this applies to all financial institutions and creditors. If you give the dealer a personal check, they are essentially a creditor until the check actually clears. Having a cashiers check is not quite the same, I agree.

Many of the 'Red Flag' rules do involve the SSN. Such as discovering that the SSN belongs to another customer, SSN belongs to a dead person, or your date of birth does not match the SSN range for that date.

The FTC requires that each business have a 'Red Flag Policy' and educate the staff about it. I'm sure that your dealer was 'educated' but there wasn't anything in there about cashiers checks not applying. Our Red Flag policy did NOT require gathering the SSN, as the FTC doesn't require it. It may be a requirement of the dealership management, and the sales person is simply doing what they were told to do.

 

[garygid]

Homeland Security might have some rules specifically for vehicle purchases.

 

[folla]

Unless you have cash on the barrel I would count on giving the personal info and agreeing to a credit check.
I plan to write a personal check but fully expect to submit the credit application.
Maybe you could avoid disclosure and credit check with a direct wire transfer.

The check is the standard method to verify who you are and what you are made of incase they need to go looking for you or the car.

After a prolonged discussion they did agree that a wire transfer would not require disclosure of an SSN.

Editorial comment: The purpose of the Red Flag rules is to protect consumers against identity theft but in order to do so the consumer is asked to disclose one of the primary pieces of information used in identity theft to a 3rd party (dealer) with who knows what for protection of the consumer's private information - something doesn't seem quite right with the logic.

 

[folla]

The dealer reconsidered their policy today and decided that if a cashier's/certified check were used for the entire transaction amount that my SSN wouldn't be necessary. Didn't help me in this case because I'd already wire transferred the funds but perhaps someone else will benefit from this information.

After my PD called today to say our Leaf had arrived I went down to the dealership with the intent of getting the purchase process started. My intent is to finance the vehicle through my lender (NOT through the dealer/NMAC).

I asked the dealership for a purchase order that I could take back to my lender to get the loan approved and the cashier's check cut. They were willing to provide the P.O. but stated that they needed my SSN even though I was going to purchase the Leaf with a cashier's check. When asked why, the manager of the finance department stated they were required to do so because of the Red Flag Rules/law.

I wasn't familiar with the particulars of the Red Flag law/rule but after I left the dealership I researched the Red Flag rule a bit and as near as I can tell it isn't applicable if I'm not financing the purchase through the dealership/NMAC.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with their PD or have any experience with this interpretation of "Red Flag Rules"?

Thanks.