REALLY!!! $200 gas tax.

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
An article in the Washington Post this morning stated that EV owners in the state of Maryland will have to pay an additional $125 surcharge every two years when they renew registration. Registration fees will also be based on vehicle weight though it is not clear how that criterion will be applied to EVs.
I'll have to pony up for my two cars.
 
We do not have state income tax. This is to make up for gas tax of .21 cents a gallon charged per gallon by the state. I only drive the approximately 1100 miles per year, running errands, ect... so ev owners are being charged for 952 gallons of gas a year. Unfair taxation. I have combustion vehicles (3) and pay at the pump. Ev tax $200 plus $65. Hybrid tax $100 plus $65.
Louisiana has similar. When in AZ I paid 5 Dollars for 5 years but now in LA I pay the same as my ICE plus an additional EV tax.
 
I think you mean the legislature. I
Basically yes, but it is sub branches of such that hammer out policy and then submit their wants to the legislature for passing. It doesn't really matter, what does is what gets enacted. If you think it is your elected legislature that "come up with all the ideas" you would be wrong.
We can argue semantics but the issue is letting them know you disapprove.
 
Are there states that don't do annual (or biennial, which could easily be adjusted to annual) inspections?
Connecticut has no inspections and emissions is a bi-annual OBD2 check only. I registered a 1961 Thunderbird and nothing was done (emissions of course or safety). It didn't have back seat belts - these were optional when purchasing back then.
 
OK, it does seem like many states don't do annual or regular safety inspections. I find that horrifying, but it goes a long way towards explaining the many decrepit vehicles I have witnessed on highways across the country as well as all the death-traps on the "Just Rolled In" Youtube channel.
 
Note that when LEAF's first went on sale, Tennessee gave a $2,500.00 rebate at the point of sale. Now the state wants its money back.
 
Basically yes, but it is sub branches of such that hammer out policy and then submit their wants to the legislature for passing. It doesn't really matter, what does is what gets enacted. If you think it is your elected legislature that "come up with all the ideas" you would be wrong.
We can argue semantics but the issue is letting them know you disapprove.
I acknowledged that the executive agencies come up with the legislation. It's not semantics it's accuracy. Telling you representative you don't approve is sometimes too late. We need to lobby the agencies too. This means speaking at agency leader meetings and writing articles in the trade magazines. This is good work for consumer associations. That is a reason to join such a association. The executive agencies have legislative mandates and gps monitoring would solve many of their problems. I just think that when we use the term "they" it dehumanize these people. They are just trying to make their jobs easier like anyone else. It's not a evil conspiracy, just the nature of any bureaucracy. We need to reach them and give our view that simpler solutions might be better for all. I know the GPS data vendors and integrators are hoping to make a sale to the these agencies and are spending money on trying to sell the GPS solution. Like they always say, follow the money.
 
I just think that when we use the term "they" it dehumanize these people. They are just trying to make their jobs easier like anyone else. It's not a evil conspiracy, just the nature of any bureaucracy.
Agreed. Our tripartite system is designed to accommodate issues like this. One hopes the legislators get a clue that it is not right to excessively tax EVs, but with 2.5 million EVs on the road in the US, and sizable taxation inequalities in some states with more to come, class action lawsuits are always an option.
 
I would disagree a bit, the only actor we have any sway with are those that stand for election. The others have their reasons for what they want, but it is the elected official that is the only one who has to face the voters and explain his/her action. If enough people (voters) make it known they will not stand for something, it can make a difference. I am not trying to dehumanize anyone, but those sub offices vary from state to state and there is also the federal agencies.
I think I may have struck a nerve?
It is not a conspiracy theory when it is printed in the reports these agencies put out.
A lot of problems would be solved by monitoring everyone movements all the time both in vehicles and out, but that is not a world I am prepared to live in.
Taxing issues SHOULD be difficult and those should be made in public and justified before the people that are going to pay the tax.
That said, I am in favor of those that use the roads, pay for them.
One of the main reasons given for the GPS system is that fuel tax has not kept up with more efficient vehicles, (not including the EV problem) and that is not a failure of the tax collection system but of those who's job is to make the adjustments in the tax rate.
Having worked in the trucking industry, I saw 1st hand what was promised with electronic monitoring and the how little it changed the outcomes it was put in place to address. It has caused lots of problems but has not solved or even improved safety as it was claimed was the reason for it.
Too often, those who enact laws are oblivious to what they are enacting. There is a famous story about a legislator in the early 70's who was being driven in a limo and was trying to have a conversation with someone else and complained about the constant buzzer going off the to the limo driver, who pointed out the legislator didn't have his seatbelt on, and he can't "turn it off' as it was the law that it had do buzz until the seatbelt was fastened. We now have cars that the warning shuts off!
No I don't trust them to look beyond what they are fed by lobbyist, and think we need to let them know, we will not submit without a fight.
I would also point out that GPS would also fail from the exact same thing, if rates aren't raised to reflect inflation. We would be giving up our privacy for nothing other than allowing more ways of taxing.
 
Last edited:
That said, I am in favor of those that use the roads, pay for them.
I don't think anyone here disagrees with that. Many taxpayers (like me) are paying a lot of taxes ever year to subsidize fuels we don't use, with the cheaper fuel also resulting in increased road costs. The real cost of gasoline is north of $10/gallon (many many studies, search for "true cost of gasoline"). We pay these other costs through federal taxes for health care, the military's defense of the middle east, support for road infrastructure, etc. In the future, when global warming is tearing things up, the real costs of cumulative fossil fuel use will become even more apparent.

What I think is the states should be paying us for our investment in and use of CO2 emissions reduction technology.
 
That we very well stated. I agree with you on so many points. "One of the main reasons given for the GPS system is that fuel tax has not kept up with more efficient vehicles, (not including the EV problem) and that is not a failure of the tax collection system but of those who's job is to make the adjustments in the tax rate.", you are spot on, this is a failure of the legislature to show some spine in road funding.

The tax foundation has a very holistic discussion about EV taxation. https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/electric-vehicles-ev-taxes-state/
The term of collection by miles driven or called VMT or Vehicle Miles Traveled. Two pieces of federal legislation—the Surface Transportation System Funding Alternatives Program (2015) and the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (2021)—provided funding for states to run VMT pilot programs. Utah already has, and Hawaii will enact (effective July 2025), an annual per-mile road usage charge for EVs in lieu of the EV registration fee.

I am also opposed to gps monitoring. I thin annual mile driven is the easiest solution for EVs. Just report the odometer reading every year. Multiply it by the rate and pay the fee.

This has been a great discussion. I have spent a lot of time looking into the all the angles. It is very interesting.
 
Lots of interesting ideas here, as well as some real concerns.
A) annual inspection for all EV and ICE vehicles;
B) document mileage at inspection;
C) road usage fee assessed based on miles driven and vehicle type/weight class;
D) get rid of gas tax for ICE vehicles, which hasn't been scaled to support adequate road maintenance over the past few decades.
As a bonus for those who don't want government monitoring, this plan doesn't know where, when, how, or why you drive, only that you drove X miles in Y vehicle over the previous year.

Another complaint. States that have lots of visitors wouldn't collect as much relative to road wear as States sending lots of visitors.
 
T

I am also opposed to gps monitoring. I thin annual mile driven is the easiest solution for EVs. Just report the odometer reading every year. Multiply it by the rate and pay the fee.

This has been a great discussion. I have spent a lot of time looking into the all the angles. It is very interesting.
When you start to look at all the complexities, it makes the fuel tax look like a stroke of genius not often found when dealing with taxation.
It deals with state to state movement (generally, there were tweeks, brought in when trucks larger tanks became an issue), size and "pay as you go". I think it is easy to forget how important all these points are, and a yearly assessed mileage or GPS based tax does not.
For those who have never been poor, or were when they were starting out but have forgotten what it is like, paying as you go is a big issue.
A good tax system is just, easy and simple to pay and administer. Every alternative to "fuel" (in every form) based taxation fails on at least two of the above.
I own a house, I have a mortgage, Neither the mortgage company nor the taxing bodies trust me to be able to pay once a year, the mortgage comp takes it out monthly and the taxing bodies require payments twice a year. They both have my property as collateral. The poor who rent, and need a car to get to work, have nothing of value and no way to pay as they go, expecting them to be able to pay all at once is not realistic, if they could, they wouldn't be poor!
 
I acknowledged that the executive agencies come up with the legislation. It's not semantics it's accuracy. Telling you representative you don't approve is sometimes too late. We need to lobby the agencies too. This means speaking at agency leader meetings and writing articles in the trade magazines. This is good work for consumer associations. That is a reason to join such an association. The executive agencies have legislative mandates and gps monitoring would solve many of their problems. I just think that when we use the term "they" it dehumanize these people. They are just trying to make their jobs easier like anyone else. It's not an evil conspiracy, just the nature of any bureaucracy. We need to reach them and give our view that simpler solutions might be better for all. I know the GPS data vendors and integrators are hoping to make a sale to the these agencies and are spending money on trying to sell the GPS solution. Like they always say, follow the money.
You both are wrong. legislative bodies pass laws that may include regulations both normally give guidelines to executive agencies who promulgate more detailed rules. Some executive branches members, notably the President can submit legislation, but not most. The courts decide if the executive branch faithfully carried out the legislative directives. President can issue executive orders but that’s a constitutional fine point. The public can have input at any stage, but lobbyists and other organizations are most effective. And of course the ballot box is the ultimate power.
 
Last edited:
The public can have input at any stage, but lobbyists and other organizations are most effective. And of course the ballot box is the ultimate power.
With the caveat that for something as widespread as excessive EV taxation, class action lawsuits are also a remedy.
Edit: From this report https://www.atlasevhub.com/data_story/ev-drivers-in-36-states-pay-a-surplus-of-fees-each-year/ , the following:
In assessing the accumulation of taxes on EVs and charging, we calculated an “EV Penalty” – the total amount of EV-specific taxes and fees an EV driver who charges their vehicle at public Direct Current Fast Chargers (DCFCs) pays in a single calendar year in comparison to a gasoline vehicle driver. Our results show that EV drivers in 36 states, including the District of Columbia, pay more in taxes than drivers of gasoline-powered vehicles. Of these 36 states, 16 pay more than a $150 EV penalty.
EVfees-2019.PNG
 
Last edited:
A good tax system is just, easy and simple to pay and administer.

I'm not sure any part of the US tax system has been fair or simple, at least not during my 40+ years of life. If it was, we wouldn't hear about Warren Buffett (from the mouth of Warren Buffett) paying less in taxes than his secretary, or various other millionaires and billionaires regularly bragging about paying no taxes.

makes the fuel tax look like a stroke of genius not often found when dealing with taxation.
It deals with state to state movement

Does it? I grew up on a farm about 10 miles from the Mississippi River in northeastern MO, but like many folks in the area my dad's "day job" was in Quincy, IL.

Every morning and every night there was and still is a line of cars stretching across the bridge from Quincy (IL) to the gas stations in West Quincy (MO). According to Gasbuddy.com, the current price disparity is $0.50/gal, but I remember this being a regular occurrence even when I first started driving and gas hovered around $1/gal and the difference between the states was much smaller.

I suspect there are many border areas where drivers, especially those with big fuel tanks to fill and/or gas-guzzling vehicles, will spend a few minutes or miles to save money on fuel, thereby paying their fuel tax in a state they don't live in and barely drive in.

My ICE car gets a decent 40+ mpg on the highway, but when we drive long distances I plan my fuel stops to hit cheaper stations in cheaper states. There's a high-cost state we drive through on multiple annual visits to my sister's house that I don't think I've ever filled up in and therefore never paid fuel tax in, despite driving a decent amount (for a non-resident) on the state's roads each year.
 
There is nothing fair at all about the huge subsidies the trucking industry gets either, costing in the range of of $200 every year for every US citizen. https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/f...r/50049-Freight_Transport_Working_Paper-2.pdf Corporations save money shipping stuff, but the taxpayer gets the bill.

If voters spent some time learning about where and how their tax dollars gets spent, and learning about their candidates' positions, we would all be in a much better place. And maybe have a decent rail system.
 
I'm not sure any part of the US tax system has been fair or simple, at least not during my 40+ years of life. If it was, we wouldn't hear about Warren Buffett (from the mouth of Warren Buffett) paying less in taxes than his secretary, or various other millionaires and billionaires regularly bragging about paying no taxes.



Does it? I grew up on a farm about 10 miles from the Mississippi River in northeastern MO, but like many folks in the area my dad's "day job" was in Quincy, IL.

Every morning and every night there was and still is a line of cars stretching across the bridge from Quincy (IL) to the gas stations in West Quincy (MO). According to Gasbuddy.com, the current price disparity is $0.50/gal, but I remember this being a regular occurrence even when I first started driving and gas hovered around $1/gal and the difference between the states was much smaller.

I suspect there are many border areas where drivers, especially those with big fuel tanks to fill and/or gas-guzzling vehicles, will spend a few minutes or miles to save money on fuel, thereby paying their fuel tax in a state they don't live in and barely drive in.

My ICE car gets a decent 40+ mpg on the highway, but when we drive long distances I plan my fuel stops to hit cheaper stations in cheaper states. There's a high-cost state we drive through on multiple annual visits to my sister's house that I don't think I've ever filled up in and therefore never paid fuel tax in, despite driving a decent amount (for a non-resident) on the state's roads each year.
My point seams to have been lost. No tax is perfect and covers all contingencies. That said the fuel tax was put in place around 100 years ago, without the electronic monitoring capability we have today, and for the most part got the job done. I never said it was perfect, but for the time it was conceived it covered the major issues we are wrestling with here coming up with an alternative.
Admin of the tax is fairly simple, it doesn't require pre payment or large bill at renewal time, it doesn't require the individual taxpayer to spend any time on paperwork or figuring the tax. Gal sold, tax assessed.
Mileage tax would not account for crossing state lines, tire tax wouldn't either, GPS would but at a huge invasion of privacy and opens the door to far more taxation than the current or any of the others so far proposed.
Nothing is perfect but lets be careful on what we accept as compromises.
When I was doing the IFTA (fuel tax) filing I never complained, I felt it was the best system, same with IRP (registration).
For years Wyoming had one of the lowest fuel tax rates and contiunoulsy belly ached about not having enough money to fund their roads? Finely they raised the rates to close to the adv. OK still to my knowledge has artificially low fuel tax rates.
If the taxing bodies don't have the will to assess what is needed for the tax to do its job, no change in how it is determined will change the outcome.
 
Back
Top