Re-plugging some one else's Leaf to L2

[CWO4Mann]

If you have set your timer on a public charger then you are an inconsiderate hog. If you have a Volt and you are plugged in for an hour or more and my LEAF is empty, then I'll unplug your car and put a note under your windshield wiper. It's very unfortunate that we have to deal with this all due to a woefully inadequate charging infrastructure... :ugeek:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1065314_gm-riles-ca-electric-car-world-again-over-ab475-charger-sharing-ban/page-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sorry, but it gets MUCH worse. Legislation was just passed recently in CA (don't forget, some states merely follow CA law automatically - for example with CARB rules) regarding "charge stations". It used to be that charge stations were the exclusive privilege of EV's. Most EV'rs would employ a typical courtesy placard that notified folks needing a charge after you plugged in, if and/or when you could unplug another, and plug your self in. Now? With the plugin Volt, and the plugin Prius, rules are different. Legislation was pushed through (By GM of course) that if you DARE unplug any vehicle (even if it's charge lights show it's all done charging ... even if a charge protocol placard on the vehicle says 'go ahead and unplug if needed) you are committing a misdemeanor. It was GM's lackey legislator Betsy Butler that pushed this legislation through ... with no better response other than, "that's what GM wanted". But GM is government owned - so what do you expect?). So ... if you got the parking sticker for LAX, you might as well throw them out because they are now worthless. If a Volt has charged at LAX ... and it's full ... and has been fully charged for even a WEEK ... not only are you legally FORBIDDEN permitted to unplug it - you are legally considered a vandal if you were to DARE unplug the Volt ... even if you are bone dry crawling forward on turtle mode. Unplug any other fully charged car and you are screwed. Unplug the Volt and the Volt's alarm will go off. You will be charged with a misdemeanor (as though you had smashed out its windshield or slashed its tires, or both) and you will be fined accordingly.
Thank you
GM.
Now ... what has changed, since GM crushed EV1's, in preference to hummer production?

{Preaching Mode: ON}

Seems to me that this will continue to be expected behavior leading to more legislative action in the future. As EV's become more common, the users will no longer be the polite "live and let live Birkenstock sandal crowd" singing Kuum-Bye-Ya. We will all see a tightening of control by the Government and a circling of the wagons by the "old users" such as are we and the "new users" whose priorities are different. Wait until we have gas at $10.00 gallon and we will see EV"s sabotaged, charging stations vandalized, and road rage escalating. Commentary about "if he charged up and ain't there to unplug, I'll unplug him anyway" is a small taste of what to expect -- it is human nature: Envy, anger, alpha-male behavior and just plain meanness is humankind in a nutshell. We humans are just plain nasty, mean, and cruel creatures; we have to work hard to be polite and socially accommodating of other people. Ah, you don't believe me? Well take a look sometimes way down inside of your deepest and darkest fantasies which play to the movie screen of your closed eyelids. You folks in California and the rest of the West Coast are tightly packed and aside from the everyday stress and torment of living like rats in a cage, now must compete for mobility. I see trouble in the future not just for the West Coast folks but for the states such as my own where at least one in every three drivers is armed at all times. Why do I pontificate about doom and gloom? Well for starters, I have been through not only that idiot Carter's years of gas lines, but overseas during crisis times where I personally saw the locals shooting at each other over the last bag of rice coming off of the USAID trucks. Who's to say that we will or will not face that kind of societal strife in the future? As for me, I believe in Live and Let Live (call it the Golden Rule if you like) and will do what I can to help my Brother or Sister in their time of need. Seems to me that those of us who have taken the EV Pledge should go completely out of our way to become evangelists for EV-dom -- which includes by definition, the personal obligation to help our fellow man and woman at the same time we help out Mother Gaia.

{Preaching Mode: OFF}

With respect to the group,

Dave

 

[TangoKilo]

Just woke up. Did I miss anything... :ugeek:

 

[ebill3]

Just woke up. Did I miss anything... :ugeek:

Nope.

 

[johnr]

Seems to me that one of the main problems here is apparently the charging station does not have a "start charging" button that can override the timer. Isn't that what the "start" button does on the AV stations? So, why doesn't Chargepoint include this feature?

The other angle to this is, Nissan should have designed the charging timers to only activate when at the "home" location.

 

[SanDust]

I intend to go on a longer trip tomorrow and will depend upon a charge at a hotel I am visiting for the evening. Without a charge capability I would not take the LEAF.

If you have arranged for a charge at the hotel then you've taken care of the issue. No problem. If things don't work out you can take the issue up with the hotel. If you're just going to the hotel and hoping you can find a place to charge, well, if you can't find a charger that's your problem. You made a bad choice. Next time take a different vehicle or don't go. The world does not owe you an opportunity to drive the Leaf to anywhere in particular. It just doesn't.

 

[planet4ever]

without having to muck with your timer settings.

I've already said this twice on this thread, and I probably shouldn't repeat my repeat my repeat myself, but one more time:
You don't have to muck with your timer settings.
You turn the timer off. You turn the timer on. All of your settings - times of day, days of week, 80% vs 100% - remain intact.

Now, I guess if I were designing this I would make a bit of a change in the "override" button.

• I would put it up higher, where it was more visible.
• I would add an LED to it.
• I would make it an on-off switch instead of a one-shot disable.

If you push it when the light is off, it enables the timers and turns the light on.
If you push it when the light is on, it disables the timers and turns the light off.

That's exactly what you do with the present setup, but you have to push two buttons to get to the one you want, plus a fourth one to confirm, instead of just pushing the one button you want.

Ray

 

[JPWhite]

Would an option to provide a "public" way to send a charge command to your car in this situation (and being able to enable/disable this capability) be useful?

What if, on the protocol card, you could put a URL or phone#/SMS way for someone to restart the charger on your car if something like this happened...

You could then enable this functionality when you're at a public charger, without having to muck with your timer settings.

No. I do not want someone else commanding my car what to do.

In which case you simply wouldn't setup and advertise this capability. It's opt-in if you hadn't noticed. No harm in providing a service to those who would like to take part.

 

[wwhitney]

Seems to me that one of the main problems here is apparently the charging station does not have a "start charging" button that can override the timer. Isn't that what the "start" button does on the AV stations?

No, that's not how it works. The J1772 protocol doesn't allow for that level of communication, no EVSE can override the timer on the LEAF.

Wayne

 

[TangoKilo]

Seems to me that one of the main problems here is apparently the charging station does not have a "start charging" button that can override the timer. Isn't that what the "start" button does on the AV stations?

No, that's not how it works. The J1772 protocol doesn't allow for that level of communication, no EVSE can override the timer on the LEAF.

Wayne

It seems to me that one of the biggest problems here (hangups?) is the insistence of using the timer at a public EVSE. Good grief Charlie Brown! Just turn it off... :ugeek:

 

[Packet]

It seems to me that one of the biggest problems here (hangups?) is the insistence of using the timer at a public EVSE. Good grief Charlie Brown! Just turn it off... :ugeek:

If I understand correctly, the issue is that not everyone remembers to do that. So the question is what to do in situations where they didn't remember, and the thread is at least partially about whether we should:

a) never unplug another person in case their timer is on, even if they're at three-lights for charging and you need the charge.

b) encourage everyone to include charger protocol cards (so that if your timer is off or whatever, someone can call you).

c) have a way to override remotely and start charging, printed on the charger protocol cards (so that if you're in a movie theater or something, the person still has a way to restart your charging),

or d) do some combination of the above.

 

[smkettner]

Everything works fine as is. The problem is the car was unplugged.
The solution is to move the ICE or wait.

 

[rmay635703]

It is unfortunate that the leaf and all other electric cars do not automatically detect when they are at a charging station and start charging immediately, there should be no choice in the matter.

I think a little thought on this by the manufacturers would have made the OPs situation impossible.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

It is unfortunate that the leaf and all other electric cars do not automatically detect when they are at a charging station and start charging immediately, there should be no choice in the matter.

I think a little thought on this by the manufacturers would have made the OPs situation impossible.

LOL!!...well, actually its coming, but hey!! give em dollar so it can come quicker

http://www.myperfectautomobile.com/chevy-volt-debuts-plugless-charger/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Rat]

Everything works fine as is. The problem is the car was unplugged.
The solution is to move the ICE or wait.

Correct. The original post didn't identify whether this occurred in California, but for those of us here this whole thread is now irrelevant. The only way to plug share an EVSE you are using under the new law is to come back to your car and move it so someone else can use it. Using or not using a timer, or leaving a note or protocol card isn't going to work any more, although if you are willing and able to come back to the car (e.g. at work or a hotel) it is polite ot leave a number so someone can contact you to move it.

Under the new law if you unplug someone else at the EVSE you need, even if they have killed the timer as some here seem to think they should, or completed their charge, you are turning them into an illegal parker subject to tow. You just don't have that right. It is no different legally, practically, or ethically from driving on a public street, finding no parking, and having a couple of big guys help you lift a Smart car onto the curb or next to a hydrant so you can take his legal parking space simply because you need to park. Sorry, you just can't do that. The only workable rule now is first come first serve. If you can't find a spot to park, EVSE or not, then just wait or go elsewhere. I'm bringing a padlock with me when I go to a public charging stations and I predict EVSE manufacturers will be using lockable nozzles, at least for the public stations in California for this reason if they haven't already.

 

[planet4ever]

The original post didn't identify whether this occurred in California, but for those of us here this whole thread is now irrelevant.

You said this before, and I tried to correct you. I'll try again.

• In the first place, this is not a thread about plug sharing. The OP was not trying to share a plug with the other EV, only rearrange the connections so that the two available charging stations could be used to charge the two LEAFs that were sitting there.
• In the second place, the law you refer to does not apply unless a particular sign is posted with wording specified by the law. There is no requirement to have those signs at charging stations. So far as I know, there are none of those signs posted anywhere at present. So the law applies ... nowhere!

Since there are currently more LEAFs in California than in any other state, and the state could well have one of the lowest ratios of J1772-compliant charging stations to electric vehicles, this thread is exceedingly relevant in California.

Ray

 

[JPWhite]

Under the new law if you unplug someone else at the EVSE you need, even if they have killed the timer as some here seem to think they should, or completed their charge, you are turning them into an illegal parker subject to tow.

That is true, however the specifics of this scenario are different. The OP did plug the first LEAF backup to an EVSE so did NOT subject him/her to a tow. He did inadvertently screw up the charge process however which is the nub of this thread.

Was the OP completely in the right? No. Was he solely to blame for the outcome? No. All was done in good faith and never exposed the other party or himself to prosecution under any law in any state in the country. The thread simply exposes that we all have some way to go to get good at sharing what is currently a rare earth resource, an EVSE.

 

[Stunt822]

To Rat and others – I did not leave car sitting with out charger plugged in. Infact I had both cards plugged in. (said in my original post). And owner had opportunity to re-initiate charging from his Iphone. I just needed a way to call him to inform.


The guy was done shopping when he came out - while I was running PA announcement for Leaf owner to come to his car in IKEA or call reception. He was top nice, and said it’s no problem at all. I didn’t say I’m proud of what I did. He had two lights, should he have only 1 – I wouldn’t unplug him no matter what.
But then again, I didn’t just steal his cord - I did REPLUG his car into other charger. And for accounting note – I would be paying for his charge from there on, if BLINKs weren’t free.

And honestly, I completely forgot he may have manually overridden his timer for this charge. My fault here.

And yes, I left a long note about how sorry I am.

Cable did not reach to behind ICE.


These chargers don’t have “EV ONLY” signs, otherwise I’d be calling police. So ICE cars had all rights to be parked there, paging it seems useless (Blame IKEA for this). Has guy at work who parked his pickup infront of charger, because there were no signs. On purpose he came 6-30. But I paged Leaf owner so he can re-start his charge remotely.

For timer at home – I have set my home Blink’s timer, exactly for this reason – I would pull up to opportunity charging and ither forget to hit override, or power jumps and charge doesn’t restart. So I kept my night charger problems – at home.

Thanks for supporting comments, I hope I don’t have to do this again, but while it’s legal, and other car is done (DONE) charging – I would leave a “very sorry” note, but will use the charger.
Other way to look at this – chargers are placed to reach several spots for a reason. Like on public parking – you can’t park across 3 spots just because you’d like extra space to avoid door bangs.

 

[Rat]

The OP did not intentionally do anything wrong or unlawful and I did not mean to say he did. As pointed out he did replug the other car so there was never any danger of a tow and had good intentions. My point is the bigger one, at least for California. I don't yet know all the details of the new law and how it will be implemented everywhere. I'm sure different departments will have different policies. My guess is that it will probably only be applied to ICE cars when it does get applied, at least at first. If it requires certain signage then you can be sure that signage will begin to appear. GM and Volt owners will make sure of that just like they did with the law itself; otherwise all their effort to get it passed will be meaningless. A GM spokesperson on this law has been quoted as saying plug sharing is dead, get over it. Whether we like it or not, I believe this is now becoming true in California and probably will be most places soon enough. But this thread is about whether it is okay to unplug someone without their knowledge and permission and my position is the same: NO, it isn't, and the new law makes that increasingly so. The first car's timer setting is irrelevant. There are many valid reasons for leaving the timer on even on public stations -- to prevent going past 80%, for example, either to preserve battery life or because you get cheaper electricity at home and only want the minimum amount. I can think of others. More and more EVs are coming on the market and we aren't going to know all the variations of timer settings, which lights, if any, indicate a charge is complete, etc. The bottom line is you won't know how someone else has his car set and what effect unplugging him will be so just keep your hands off. If you need to plug in, wait or go elsewhere, or call to get the ICE car towed but don't unplug another EVSE without permission.