Rav4EV -> Leaf

[TEG]

I know of some people that have had Rav4EVs for years, and decided to switch to a Leaf now.
Any of you care to comment on how the two compare?
Driving experience?
Charging efficiency?
Driving efficiency?
Other notable differences?
In some ways the old Rav4EV is rather similar to the Leaf spec wise.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Who said anything about switch? I'm keeping my RAV4 EV and adding the LEAF to the family. Do you toss out your first child when you have a second child?

They are different animals. The RAV4 EV charges twice as fast at level 2 (25 miles/hour of charge versus LEAF's 12), can haul larger items in the car, doesn't have a nav system with charger locations, isn't J1772 compatible. It's paid for, still gets close to 100 miles on a charge (mine's at 46,000 miles). It has more noise in the cabin from the road than the LEAF.

With two EVs in the household, the Prius can sit parked during the week while there's an Electric for each of us to drive now (once I finally get the LEAF). The existing RAV4 EV and LEAF with the 2002 Prius are less expensive and are available much sooner than any other Plug In Hybrid option, I.e. Plug In Prius or Volt. There's more opportunity to drive Electric and reduce our gasoline usage even further than a single Plug In Hybrid would allow.

When the Prius finally gives up maybe after it's 15 or 20 years old I'll replace the single gas burner in our house with a Plug In Hybrid when they have greater range, lower emissions, greater availability and lower cost than the current Volt or Plug In Prius.

Even if money wasn't a consideration, the existing RAV4 EV and 2002 Prius with a new LEAF is the best solution for my needs and lowest gas consumption option for the next 5 years - well unless someone gives me a 300 mile range Tesla Model S !

 

[tomsax]

We don't have our LEAF yet; we put our order on hold to wait for the cold weather package. I'm pretty sure the LEAF will become our primary vehicle, so we want all of the comforts. We just got the word yesterday that we can order the cold weather package, so we'll hopefully get that done today.

I expect the RAV will give us many more years of reliable use. We're at 63,000 and still getting it's 100-mile range per charge. With the weather warming up, we've been getting just over a mile per SOC percent.

I'm very anxious to start measuring range and wall-to-wheel efficiency to compare the LEAF to the RAV and Roadster. It will also be nice to be able to charge away from home, although we've put over 20,000 miles on the RAV in the last three years without ever charging anywhere but home.

 

[Sasparilla]

I expect the RAV will give us many more years of reliable use. We're at 63,000 and still getting it's 100-mile range per charge. With the weather warming up, we've been getting just over a mile per SOC percent.

I'm very anxious to start measuring range and wall-to-wheel efficiency to compare the LEAF to the RAV and Roadster. It will also be nice to be able to charge away from home, although we've put over 20,000 miles on the RAV in the last three years without ever charging anywhere but home.

Wow, 63,000 and you're still getting 100 mile range on the RAV4EV...that's just amazing when looking at the stated range of the Leaf at its starting point and all the talk of the range bleeding down over time. What a vehicle the original RAV4-EV was/is.

I look forward to any comparisons you have for efficiency (should definitely fall in the Leaf's favor, but it'll be interesting to see the difference).

 

[TEG]

One difference in the Leaf vs Rav4EV is price.
The Rav4EV cost more than the Leaf and it was said that Toyota lost a lot on each one sold.
Nissan hopes to be profitable with the Leaf soon.

 

[hill]

One difference in the Leaf vs Rav4EV is price.
The Rav4EV cost more than the Leaf and it was said that Toyota lost a lot on each one sold.
Nissan hopes to be profitable with the Leaf soon.

Whether Toyota Lost money on the RAV4-ev is pure conjecture. How do you put a price on research and development? Toyota gained a TON of experience with high density traction batteries as well as regenerative technology/experience. Much of that was transferable to their Prius. How do you put a price on marketing/advertising? Toyota's name is out there as the major auto manufacturer who put ... and left more EV's out on the road and in private hands than any other auto manufacturer back during the 1990's and early 2000's. Profit is not all about the quarterly reports. That's strictly a U.S. manufacturer notion ... and a huge chunk of the reason why GM sunk into BKO ... and why Toyota is so much more financially healthy ... imo.

 

[EVDRIVER]

apples to oranges in every respect

 

[TEG]

apples to oranges in every respect

Can you elaborate? What you do like better about the RAV4EV? What do you like better about the Leaf?

 

[EVDRIVER]

apples to oranges in every respect

Can you elaborate? What you do like better about the RAV4EV? What do you like better about the Leaf?

They are just very different vehicles and not really comparable. They are far apart in age, technology in some ways, but they are completely different vehicles. Why not to a Ranger EV, or Think, etc. A better comparison would be to a Focus EV.

RAV4- Better SUV

LEAF- Better passenger car.

 

[TEG]

Well, since you asked about the RangerEV, I can comment on that.
The Leaf accelerates noticeably better than my old NiMH RangerEV.
It has less wind noise at speed.
It rides more comfortably (although the RangerEV isn't too bad.)
The RangerEV has better steering feel - not so overboosted. Also no torque steer artifacts since it is rear wheel drive.
The Leaf seems to have about 50% more range than the old RangerEV.
I do like sitting up rather high in the RangerEV. You can see over cars in front of you so it is easier to know when to start stopping when you see some stopped traffic in front of the car in front of you. The Leaf is a bit upright, but not up as a high as the RangerEV.
The RangerEV DTE ("Distance to Empty") gauge is perhaps a bit better at indicating how much range is left compared to the Leaf's predicted range number which can be "all over the map" depending on recent driving.
The Leaf brakes can feel grabby at times but reasonably powerful.
The RangerEV has goog brakes too. And I never notice them feeling grabby.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

One difference in the Leaf vs Rav4EV is price.
The Rav4EV cost more than the Leaf and it was said that Toyota lost a lot on each one sold.
Nissan hopes to be profitable with the Leaf soon.

Whether Toyota Lost money on the RAV4-ev is pure conjecture. How do you put a price on research and development? Toyota gained a TON of experience with high density traction batteries as well as regenerative technology/experience. Much of that was transferable to their Prius. How do you put a price on marketing/advertising? Toyota's name is out there as the major auto manufacturer who put ... and left more EV's out on the road and in private hands than any other auto manufacturer back during the 1990's and early 2000's. Profit is not all about the quarterly reports. That's strictly a U.S. manufacturer notion ... and a huge chunk of the reason why GM sunk into BKO ... and why Toyota is so much more financially healthy ... imo.

i 2nd that!! and to add, i think the track record of the many RAV 4 EVs still on the road after 10+ years is a BIG BIG reason why EVs have been revisited.

EVs are simply too right to have never happened, but the seed of desire was fueled by RAV 4 EV drivers and others and i am sure that is directly responsible for me getting my Leaf sooner rather than later

 

[EVDRIVER]

Well, since you asked about the RangerEV, I can comment on that.
The Leaf accelerates noticeably better than my old NiMH RangerEV.
It has less wind noise at speed.
It rides more comfortably (although the RangerEV isn't too bad.)
The RangerEV has better steering feel - not so overboosted. Also no torque steer artifacts since it is rear wheel drive.
The Leaf seems to have about 50% more range than the old RangerEV.
I do like sitting up rather high in the RangerEV. You can see over cars in front of you so it is easier to know when to start stopping when you see some stopped traffic in front of the car in front of you. The Leaf is a bit upright, but not up as a high as the RangerEV.
The RangerEV DTE ("Distance to Empty") gauge is perhaps a bit better at indicating how much range is left compared to the Leaf's predicted range number which can be "all over the map" depending on recent driving.
The Leaf brakes can feel grabby at times but reasonably powerful.
The RangerEV has goog brakes too. And I never notice them feeling grabby.

Those are all expected, it's a 5K lb truck not a passenger car, all those things are expected. I disagree on the Ranger gauge, it uses a different method all together and it has its own issues, not to mention many others. The LEAF should be compared to EVs in its class that are built now or you might as well add in every conversion as well.

 

[cdaveb]

My RAV4 EV was a solid car, but I'm quite glad I upgraded to the Leaf. In my case I do enjoy having some of the bells and whistles of a modern car, like backup camera, bluetooth phone support, etc. The Leaf also accelerates better and the driver's side area is more comfortable (my husband could never drive the RAV4 EV comfortably because the seat didn't go back far enough).

The Leaf doesn't seem to have as good range as the RAV4 EV, which is kinda funny since it seems to be a lot more of an EV oriented design. But it came with a level 1 charger which is nice, my husband has already used it on a longer drive to a friend's house. The fact that there seem to be a lot more charger installs coming out in the future for the J1772 also is promising, and we've got the quick charge port for when those start to pop up. The Leaf has a bit less actual space for cargo but it's actually reasonably spacious for a car that size.

I ended up selling my RAV4 EV to fund almost half the leaf before tax rebates. I figured if I held onto my RAV4 EV and waited, it'd lose enough value that in the end I'd be in roughly the same situation financially, so I might as well have a newer car with the bells and whistles. We'll probably be buying a hybrid or plugin hybrid in the next year or two to replace my husband's car, but the selection right now isn't really great and currently he drives my Leaf more than I do (as I don't drive to work), so we may not rush it.

 

[Luft]

We don't have our LEAF yet; we put our order on hold to wait for the cold weather package. I'm pretty sure the LEAF will become our primary vehicle, so we want all of the comforts. We just got the word yesterday that we can order the cold weather package, so we'll hopefully get that done today.

I expect the RAV will give us many more years of reliable use. We're at 63,000 and still getting it's 100-mile range per charge. With the weather warming up, we've been getting just over a mile per SOC percent.

I'm very anxious to start measuring range and wall-to-wheel efficiency to compare the LEAF to the RAV and Roadster. It will also be nice to be able to charge away from home, although we've put over 20,000 miles on the RAV in the last three years without ever charging anywhere but home.

I am also interested in the cold weather package and will talk to my dealer about it. Can you tell me what this package costs?

 

[TEG]

I am also interested in the cold weather package and will talk to my dealer about it. Can you tell me what this package costs?

$930 MSRP:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4037

 

[TEG]

The LEAF should be compared to EVs in its class that are built now...

Such as? The Volt (not really an EV)? CODA/iMiEV/FocusEV (are they available/comparable?) Any such comparison will certainly be made, but I was asking something a little different in this topic.

I think it is fair to compare the Leaf to the Rav4EV. There are probably some holding onto their old Rav4EVs wondering "is it worth it to 'upgrade' to a Leaf now?"

Also I am asking the question "how much has improved in 10 years?"

I modified my old RangerEV to have Nav/Bluetooth/Back-up-camera and other such "bells and whistles", but now that I have the Leaf I almost never drive the Ranger anymore because the Leaf is more comfortable, and gets more range out of the same charge.

The Leaf doesn't seem to have as good range as the RAV4 EV, which is kinda funny since it seems to be a lot more of an EV oriented design.

Hearing that the old Rav4EV gets better range than a Leaf is surprising. The Rav4EV has similar battery capacity and yet seems less aerodynamic. Does it make better use of regen? Does it have a more efficient motor?

 

[cdub]

[

Hearing that the old Rav4EV gets better range than a Leaf is surprising. The Rav4EV has similar battery capacity and yet seems less aerodynamic. Does it make better use of regen? Does it have a more efficient motor?

I think the battery is bigger (capacity wise)