Range Recommendations from Gudy?

[taztaz]

No, I had no one in front of me.
I'm not used to hyper-milling.
I wish I had more time to run more tests, but I also have stuff to do at work, and traffic is pretty bad in the morning (especially on 101).
Got to drop the kids at pre-school tomorrow morning, so I won't be able to try a long stretch of highway at 60mph. Maybe tomorrow evening.
in the meantime, here's a pretty lame video of me accelerating on a ramp, it's going uphill, and I can't even get to 60 mph, because of the cars in front of me. But you can kinda hear the sound of the electric motor in the video.

Driving like that (full acceleration going uphill) is like cursing in church for a EV driver .. Amount of power needed for that acceleration is very high

I would wait until there is another driver out there who is into eco driveing to confirm range... Its not only about what speed you keep, its also about acceleration and deacceleration before a red light and planning for the green light wave.. Driving ECO makes a BIG difference I bet i will have no problem driving over 100 miles!

Not saying you are doing anything wrong Gudy!! Its your car and you do whatever you want with it! I would do the same with my new LEAF! :twisted: :twisted:

 

[edatoakrun]

Since My LEAF will be far less polluting and less expensive than any ICE car I've ever owned, I doubt I will be driving "conservatively", except when trying to achieve maximum range.

So, when you get a chance, Gudy and other lucky early owners, please try an extended drive and report "full Charge range" results. Maybe start a new (on topic-please) thread or spreadsheet for this?

Most people probably want to know a 60-65 mph Freeway range result, including heat/Ac use and elevation gain that they can relate their own use to.

I have a 55-60 mile Round trip 50-70 mph "commute" (no public charge option-yet) with 2000 ft of altitude gain, and would like to use the heater or AC about 9 months out of the year. I'm hoping to have enough charge "in reserve" that every short detour or occasional lead-footed behavior won't cause me to suffer the dreaded RA...

 

[occ]

No, I had no one in front of me.
I'm not used to hyper-milling.
I wish I had more time to run more tests, but I also have stuff to do at work, and traffic is pretty bad in the morning (especially on 101).
Got to drop the kids at pre-school tomorrow morning, so I won't be able to try a long stretch of highway at 60mph. Maybe tomorrow evening.
in the meantime, here's a pretty lame video of me accelerating on a ramp, it's going uphill, and I can't even get to 60 mph, because of the cars in front of me. But you can kinda hear the sound of the electric motor in the video.

Wow, that 2-40mph was quick! Thanks Gudy. Also on the previous backup sound youtube that you posted, those LED headlights are really bright! Really glad the first LEAF owner is someone like you gudy, who's so enthusiastic and taking the time to share! I log into this site everyday now to get my real-world LEAF fix! Much appreciated!

 

[Timaz]

Gudy,

Thank you for taking the time to clarify your experiences with the range of your Leaf. It is clear the author of the article was making some conclusions using the accounts of your first experiences driving the car. The range really is a moving target due to climate, conditions, driving habits, charging habits, and so many other variables. I have a commute several times a week her in Phoenix that will require around 23 miles each way and I wanted to make sure I have not made a huge mistake thinking I could make it on a single charge. Part of the fun of getting the vehicle for each owner is to tweak all of the variables to meet each one of our range expectations. When I got my first Prius, I had to re-learn what I thought I knew about driving to stretch out the MPG's to the max base on the way I prefer to drive a vehicle.

I can't wait to customize my experince with the my leaf. Without us pioneers, many others would choose to continue to just continue to gas up at the pump rather than learn something new.

Thanks again for posting your experiences. We realize you have a life, so unless you are getting compensated in some way, just enjoy personalizing your experience with your new car.

PS. I have to admit much of the charging speak you use in your posts is really beyond me? I would have no idea how to communicate all of that? I guess I will be learning something new in a few weeks! That video you posted of accelerating in your Leaf gave me a true adrenaline rush, woohoo!

 

[walterbays]

Not saying you are doing anything wrong Gudy!! Its your car and you do whatever you want with it! I would do the same with my new LEAF! :twisted: :twisted:

Actually Gudy is doing great work to save the planet here. The polar bear should come hug him rather than a hypermiler. You see, the first 20,000 Leafs will have negligible environmental impact. It's the millions of EV's per year that come afterward that will make a difference. If the average ICE driver always notices a Leaf when it's creeping ahead of him blocking the way, he'll have a negative impression of EV's and will never consider switching. But if he sees Gudy shooting past him from the stoplight, then he'll say, "Whoa! I gotta get me one of those!"

Of course that bit of EV advertising is wasted if he next sees the Leaf dead on the side of the road waiting for Nissan road care to come give him a tow or charge.

 

[prberg]

Here,
75 is not "required", but often encountered in lanes 1 & 2.
60 is so slow that even travel in the right lane (with trucks, cars, exits, and merging traffic) is not as safe as other lanes.
70 is typical, often found in any lane.
65 is often too slow for lanes 1 & 2.

So, tests at 70, and then 65, would be most useful.

If a 50-mile RT is a fast-speed practical "limit", that leaves
only 30 miles RT if the battery ages down to 60.01% capacity.

Gary, you keep talking about the battery capacity down to 60%. IF that should happen within the warranty period, it is covered. Did you miss what Olivier said about his battery warranty? Also, Mark Perry told me exactly the same thing. So please try not to be so negative about the battery pack...it will not be a problem.

I think Gary might just be pointing out what we can expect down the road. We have to keep it in our minds that the range will start high (relatively) but over the years, that number will go down. I think it's important that we make sure all consumers are aware of that limitation of battery electric vehicles.

-Peter

 

[LEAFfan]

Here,
75 is not "required", but often encountered in lanes 1 & 2.
60 is so slow that even travel in the right lane (with trucks, cars, exits, and merging traffic) is not as safe as other lanes.
70 is typical, often found in any lane.
65 is often too slow for lanes 1 & 2.

So, tests at 70, and then 65, would be most useful.

If a 50-mile RT is a fast-speed practical "limit", that leaves
only 30 miles RT if the battery ages down to 60.01% capacity.

Gary, you keep talking about the battery capacity down to 60%. IF that should happen within the warranty period, it is covered. Did you miss what Olivier said about his battery warranty? Also, Mark Perry told me exactly the same thing. So please try not to be so negative about the battery pack...it will not be a problem.

I think Gary might just be pointing out what we can expect down the road. We have to keep it in our minds that the range will start high (relatively) but over the years, that number will go down. I think it's important that we make sure all consumers are aware of that limitation of battery electric vehicles.

-Peter

Peter, again, it won't matter if the battery pack drops to 60% in less than ten years as it will be covered under the battery warranty. Normal or 'gradual loss' is 70% after ten years which could or should be expected. So that isn't what he's been posting. People should realize that they will most likely have more than 70% after ten years if they don't abuse it.

 

[csriram45]

This article is interesting and I will be very curious to know more. I drive to Plesanton every day from Milpitas on 680 N and then back on 680 S. Its 26 miles one way to reach work. I have to deal with sunol grade each way and I drive at 70 miles/hr most of the time. I do not hypermile as I always get bombarded with stones.

So I have a 52 miles round trip commute. Often during the week @ lunch etc I run some errands (approx 10 - 15 miles). So I expect to drive atleast say 70 - 75 miles per day on average....

It will be interesting to see how the Leaf is going to work out for me. It would also change my driving habits so I am all excited. Worse case if it does have limitation I can give to my wife who has a 15 mile one way commute and I can drive her car.

Now if only Nissan can get my car delivered...

 

[TomT]

You've been watching too much Mythbusters!

Can you drive backwards for 10 minutes at 65 to see if the car does better that way? Also, try and inflate the tires to 120 PSI and put some dimples on the hood and fenders, thanks.

 

[TomT]

I'm glad Gudy is driving as he is and reporting the results of it as it matches how I plan to drive my Leaf. Unless it is a special circumstance, I plan to drive it like any other car which is to say enthusiastically.

I would wait until there is another driver out there who is into eco driveing to confirm range... Its not only about what speed you keep, its also about acceleration and deacceleration before a red light and planning for the green light wave.. Driving ECO makes a BIG difference I bet i will have no problem driving over 100 miles!

Not saying you are doing anything wrong Gudy!! Its your car and you do whatever you want with it! I would do the same with my new LEAF! :twisted: :twisted:

 

[smkettner]

I am bored trying to hypermile my old F150. The LEAF will far more fun.
I will be the red LEAF over in the slow lane going 5 or 10 under the limit.

 

[jhm614]

here's a video of me accelerating on a ramp, it's going uphill

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Spgvi74Q4[/youtube]

1) Love that e-motor whine!

2) " ! can't even get to 60 mph, because of the cars in front of me." :lol:

 

[wsbca]

So I have a 52 miles round trip commute. Often during the week @ lunch etc I run some errands (approx 10 - 15 miles). So I expect to drive atleast say 70 - 75 miles per day on average....

It will be interesting to see how the Leaf is going to work out for me.

It seems to me that if the LEAF specifically and EVs in general are even the least bit successful then the future infrastructure being kickstarted by the EVProject will absolutely have to come true fairly soon...in which case getting a few hours of L2 charging near, if not at one's workplace will be not only feasible but commonplace. Making usage such as you describe relatively straightforward, even as your battery ages and degrades.

 

[DaveEV]

You can use the speed/range chart posted by Tesla to estimate your range at various speeds.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/roadster-efficiency-and-range

You can actually download the spreadsheet and if you modify the 55000 used in the formula in column G to 24000 (looks like that is Wh in the pack) the data matches up nicely with what gudy reports - at 74mph the range is 73.7 mi and at 76 mpg the range is 71.2 mi.

At 70mph the range is ~79 mi.
At 65mph the range is ~86 mi.
At 60mph the range is ~95 mi.
At 55mph the range is ~104 mi.

Here's the modified spreadsheet. Feel free to enhance/change it.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AmU-95A6CYcjdHV3M2tBV3hIb1RKemJvbFZzelZjZ3c&hl=en&authkey=CMeb8vEC

 

[Lynza]

I could never post video of me trying to get into traffic; there'd be way too much swearing.

Thanks for posting this, gudy! I have a ~70 mile commute daily, where I do an average of around 65mph. When I first get on the highway out in the sticks, I can go 70 most days. Then I hit traffic about 5 miles up and it's 60 or less the rest of the way.

Quick question - do you find yourself driving "smoothly" meaning slower starts and stops, or do you do a lot of stopping and starting quickly?

 

[SteveInSeattle]

I think dimples on the hood and roof are a good idea, like on a golf ball... try that and let us know!

 

[jhm614]

You can use the speed/range chart posted by Tesla to estimate your range at various speeds.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/roadster-efficiency-and-range

You can actually download the spreadsheet and if you modify the 55000 used in the formula in column G to 24000 (looks like that is Wh in the pack) the data matches up nicely with what gudy reports - at 74mph the range is 73.7 mi and at 76 mpg the range is 71.2 mi.

At 70mph the range is ~79 mi.
At 65mph the range is ~86 mi.
At 60mph the range is ~95 mi.
At 55mph the range is ~104 mi.

Here's the modified spreadsheet. Feel free to enhance/change it.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AmU-95A6CYcjdHV3M2tBV3hIb1RKemJvbFZzelZjZ3c&hl=en&authkey=CMeb8vEC

Very cool. I added a column for projected range with an 80% charge and highlighted the general "highway speed" band green.

 

[edatoakrun]

drees,

In your example:


"You can actually download the spreadsheet and if you modify the 55000 used in the formula in column G to 24000 (looks like that is Wh in the pack) the data matches up nicely with what gudy reports - at 74mph the range is 73.7 mi and at 76 mpg the range is 71.2 mi.

At 70mph the range is ~79 mi.
At 65mph the range is ~86 mi.
At 60mph the range is ~95 mi.
At 55mph the range is ~104 mi."

Those range numbers seem to exceed most anecdotal reports.

Have you adjusted for the added weight, drag, and other factors for the LEAF?

 

[Smidge204]

That spreadsheet shows slightly more optimistic numbers than one I made using just aerodynamic + rolling resistances with a 83.5% overall efficiency factor piled on top of that - at least as far as highway speeds go. His is probably more sophisticated. I know I don't factor in things like drive train losses etc at low speeds - just a blanket efficiency derating.

Gonna pick this spreadsheet apart a bit more and see what pops up.
=Smidge=

 

[mwalsh]

I was going to say, based on my experience with the LEAF at 65-70mph with the AC on low, that there was a bit of overhead vs. LA4 for either the speed, the climate control, or both, but that it wasn't massive, and that I would expect range in the high 70s to low 80s. So that spreadsheet would appear to absolutely dead on to me.