Range in cold weather (not Bad driving 35-45 MPH )

[Yogi62]

1/20/2014, 2012 Leaf.

Starting: 100% (12 bars)
Temps: Averaged high teens, 4 bars on temp gauge entire time, though.
Heat: On as much as I wanted
Drove: 32 miles
Final: 1 bar, 5 miles range, low battery warning. Project car would have turtled no more than 40 miles total.

Doesn't change the fact that 100% charge this morning at 5F it was still pretending I had 66 miles range. That GOM is just egregious and shameful.

Again I assert that in fairly normal freezing temperatures for the North East if you--how dare I even say it--want to use heat on this car you're best to not even attempt more than 40 miles because risk goes up hugely you won't make it. cdherman above me did 47 when he hit LBW, but without heat.

Interesting. A few questions:

What temp do you set the heater to?
Heater In auto mode?
Do you preheat the car?
Is it garaged?
What is your average speed?
If you put the center display on the energy usage dial, what does it show for climate control max? What does it show most of the time?
Do you use eco mode?
I am assuming you still have 12 health bars on the battery, right?
Sound like your average M/KW was right around 1.9, right?

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

1/20/2014, 2012 Leaf.

Starting: 100% (12 bars)
Temps: Averaged high teens, 4 bars on temp gauge entire time, though.
Heat: On as much as I wanted
Drove: 32 miles
Final: 1 bar, 5 miles range, low battery warning. Project car would have turtled no more than 40 miles total.

Doesn't change the fact that 100% charge this morning at 5F it was still pretending I had 66 miles range. That GOM is just egregious and shameful.

Again I assert that in fairly normal freezing temperatures for the North East if you--how dare I even say it--want to use heat on this car you're best to not even attempt more than 40 miles because risk goes up hugely you won't make it. cdherman above me did 47 when he hit LBW, but without heat.

Interesting. A few questions:

What temp do you set the heater to?
Heater In auto mode?
Do you preheat the car?
Is it garaged?
What is your average speed?
If you put the center display on the energy usage dial, what does it show for climate control max? What does it show most of the time?
Do you use eco mode?
I am assuming you still have 12 health bars on the battery, right?
Sound like your average M/KW was right around 1.9, right?

90 F
Never auto, blast it, baby
Rarely. I trickle charge and pre-heating is almost worthless with trickle anyway
Not garaged this winter
~24 mph average yesterday, so heat did take a lot of it out
Climate control is generally 4.5 kWh. I've seen as high as 6 last year, but not recently. Occasionally for no apparent reason it will drop down to 1.5 for a half minute, blowing cool air, then jump up to 4.5 again
Sometimes eco, but rarely. Experimented a bit recently but it didn't seem to do much. I understand most of its benefit is a re-calibration of pedal anyway.
Yep on the 12 bars
Car wings says 2.6 for yesterday.

Now, I don't hide the fact I drive this car very hard, but yesterday probably didn't drive that hard because of the roads.

Car wings says so far in Jan I've done 496 miles at 2.7 average.

I can't quite remember how the .75% efficiency math works; if the 2.6 from yesterday is before that loss, I'm at a real-from-battery distance of 1.95 miles/kWh like you said, which means that against the 22 capacity battery I'd be good for 44 miles before it's totally empty.

Comparing to last year I'm getting 10% fewer miles per kWh, this must be because I drive hard.

 

[Yogi62]

According to the range charts, 35 mph driving is about 5.56 KW. If your heater is running 4.5 KW, that would take you from the mid 4's miles per KW down to the mid 2's.

So some of this may be the differences with a 2013 SL/SV....

I always have ECO on and in B mode most of the time. Punch it when needed, but drive like I have a trailer on snow...leave some stopping distance and let regen do the work. I pre-heat the car at home on the level L2, and at work with either L2 when it is available or at 1.7KW upgraded EVSE after charging up to 80%. 1.7KW is enough if you do the charging first.

Normally I set it to 66 to 68 on auto and might use the seat heater on low when getting started. Warm enough that I need to take off hat and gloves. Because it is in ECO mode, the heater has to stay below 3 KW, and most of the time is below 1.5KW. A little higher when below 20 degrees, practically nothing once it is above 40 degrees.

Normal efficiency will bounce around based on traffic and temps....2.9 to 4.6. Average for the month per CarWings is 3.7 after 565 mile in January (not including today, which will drop the average...)

So this evening was a really bad commute in Boston, really the worst case. 10 F outside and snowing hard, so I was using the defrosters,wipers and lights. 17 miles took 85 minutes, so average 12 MPH 1/2 the normal average. Left with work with 99% (257 GID) and arrived home with 56% (145 GID). Battery is 92% SOH after 8500 miles/9 months. I think it was close to 2.0 M/KW. 43% of the battery used, when it normally would be around 20% to 25%. (summer time it is 15% to 20%).

I am looking forward to trying out winter driving after leaving the car in a heated garage instead of outside, so the pack starts the day nice and warm.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I am looking forward to trying out winter driving after leaving the car in a heated garage instead of outside, so the pack starts the day nice and warm.

Yeah I bet it would help a good bit. I had it in the garage last winter and perhaps that is also part of the reason my range was better.

Today it was left outside overnight, 0 temp bars when I drove the 8 miles to work and the temp was -2 to 0 F the whole trip. Took 25 minutes. I used auto this time, but it still was at 5 kWh for heat most of the time. Lost 4 bars just getting here, so now have 8 left. I realize they aren't linear, though. I wonder how the range would be impacted if the pre-heating instead spent all its energy just warming up the battery with the existing battery heater. Just due to heat generated by the pack it rose a temp bar on the way to work even though temps did not change. I bet if the pack could start at 7 bars it would have used way less juice getting to work. The question is how much juice is needed to get the pack up to those 7 bars.

 

[Yogi62]

Today was cold (6F to 8F) battery was at 2 bars. Charged to 80%, then preheated early in the morning on the timer, and then again while I shoveled snow. Departed nice and warm and at 88% charge. ( pre-heating when hooked up at 6KW usually adds a bit).

Better conditions today, no headlights or wipers, 30 MPH average speed (6 of 17 miles was 60-70MPH highway) and got 3.6 KW/h. Arrived with 64%.

Here is the thing, even though it was really cold out, the heater at 66 degrees and auto stayed at 1KW the whole 35 minute trip.

So I would highly suggest figuring out level 2 charging at home. I like to delay (siemens versacharge) the charge until the early morning hours and the act of charging probably adds a few degrees. Having the juice to fully preheat probably helps the battery stay warm too.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I almost bought an L2 charger last year, I can get one nice and cheap with rebates, but I am not likely to keep the car at lease end. I still like the car overall, but I am a deal maniac and if I can't get one on the cheap, I won't.

I did try auto today at 76, but it was still sucking 5 kWh for most of my trip.

My trip to work and back today (swapped cars at lunch) was 16 miles total, 0 temp bars on way to work, which grew to 1, and then at lunch on way home I saw a second one, with temps now up to 5F. Heat on entire time, I lost 8 bars covering those 16 miles, with GOM pretending I had 19 miles left. That's why I swapped cars. Somewhere in the low 2's for miles/k.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Today's trip, heat on full the whole time, started with full bars and reset trip this morning.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Again I assert that in fairly normal freezing temperatures for the North East if you--how dare I even say it--want to use heat on this car you're best to not even attempt more than 40 miles because risk goes up hugely you won't make it. cdherman above me did 47 when he hit LBW, but without heat.

My commute is 43 miles round trip, average speed 32MPH, and there has been only *one* night I worried about not making it. This was in sub-zero temps both ways, with the heat on most of the time, set to 69 or so. I could in fact have made it anyway, although I charged at a dealership. In "fairly normal freezing temperatures for the North East" I have no problem at all with the commute. I get home with 19-33% charge left, so I don't usually get even the first battery warning. My average is at 3.4 M/KWH, with snow tires and heat on, up slightly from the 3.2 it was at in the worst of the cold. I just blocked my grille today.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Again I assert that in fairly normal freezing temperatures for the North East if you--how dare I even say it--want to use heat on this car you're best to not even attempt more than 40 miles because risk goes up hugely you won't make it. cdherman above me did 47 when he hit LBW, but without heat.

My commute is 43 miles round trip, average speed 32MPH, and there has been only *one* night I worried about not making it. This was in sub-zero temps both ways, with the heat on most of the time, set to 69 or so. I could in fact have made it anyway, although I charged at a dealership. In "fairly normal freezing temperatures for the North East" I have no problem at all with the commute. I get home with 19-33% charge left, so I don't usually get even the first battery warning. My average is at 3.4 M/KWH, with snow tires and heat on, up slightly from the 3.2 it was at in the worst of the cold. I just blocked my grille today.

I am thinking the cold soak my car gets by being left out in the cold is total murder on its range, because I've seen 0 bars for temp a lot lately.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I am thinking the cold soak my car gets by being left out in the cold is total murder on its range, because I've seen 0 bars for temp a lot lately.

My car is also outside, exposed to direct West and North winds. I still have no problem in anything other than sub-zero weather. The battery heater has only come on twice this Winter, so far.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I just did 52 miles on the highway at 55 mph on cruise, it's 13F, and using minimal heat, consumed 8 bars.

It was an interesting experiment, as I'm hardly ever on a highway.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Nissan could/should have a software update that runs the heater when charging and preheating while battery is under 5 bars. You feel the drop in range at 4 bars and its really painful at 3 then 2. AT under 2 bars I can only imagine

 

[kmp647]

You mean run the battery heater when charging and the temp bars are 4 or under?

Could work not sure it's designed for that duty cycle

They did have it kick on at slightly warmer the sub zero for 2014
Won't help us on normal cold temp charging

 

[kubel]

I got down to around 40 GIDs after only 27 miles this morning (sub-zero temps, battery in the teens, heater on whole time, started at a full charge which in the winter isn't much). Charged all day at work on 120V and made it home with around 30 GIDs to spare. Ran into some unexpected snow drifts on the way home.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L6SseqahrE[/youtube]

 

[LeftieBiker]

There may be an unforeseen benefit to 120 volt charging. The much longer charge times mean the battery pack is warmed by the charging process for many more hours per day, and this should be helpful in Winter. All that "waste heat" that people criticize from L-1 may in fact be a Boon in frigid weather...

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I got down to around 40 GIDs after only 27 miles this morning (sub-zero temps, battery in the teens, heater on whole time, started at a full charge which in the winter isn't much). Charged all day at work on 120V and made it home with around 30 GIDs to spare. Ran into some unexpected snow drifts on the way home.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L6SseqahrE[/youtube]

I'm missing something here. Your range is quite similar to what I am getting these days. And yet people like DNAinagoodway are getting way more miles. Not sure if heat is the variable (as I like to blast it). I've seen enough cars similar to mine to know there is nothing "wrong" with it, but others are undoubtedly doing markedly better in winter conditions.

 

[TonyWilliams]

There may be an unforeseen benefit to 120 volt charging. The much longer charge times mean the battery pack is warmed by the charging process for many more hours per day, and this should be helpful in Winter. All that "waste heat" that people criticize from L-1 may in fact be a Boon in frigid weather...

Until somebody charges one car at subzero temps with 120v, and then observes the battery temp rise over ambient, and then does the same at 240v the next day in identical ambient temps, it's all a guess.

My guess is the higher resistance of a cold cell will warm up more at 240v than 120v. Either way, the temperature rise is so marginal as to be a non-factor.

If you want to warm it up, use CHAdeMO.but, when the battery is cold, even CHAdeMO will be slow.

The best way to heat the battery is with the external silicon heating pads that you plug in to 120v. Just make sure that they aren't too hot (nothing over 40C / 104F).

 

[LeftieBiker]

Nonetheless, it's been a really frigid Winter, with the temps often falling to zero or below, lots of really nasty wind, and my battery heater has only run twice...

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Nonetheless, it's been a really frigid Winter, with the temps often falling to zero or below, lots of really nasty wind, and my battery heater has only run twice...

I guess mine must have come on, but how to tell?

I suppose if money and room were no issue the battery in the leaf could sit within a container that has variable insulation, perhaps by sucking air out to make a near vacuum when it's cold, and flooding with coolant when it's warm.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Made it to the office today, and pretty happy about the efficiency. About 14 miles (and a 4 story drive up into the parking garage). Its -8F out today in Chicago. Speeds were 10-45 MPH due to stop and go traffic. I used heat only a couple times to defrost. Total trip was 99 -> 82% battery, or 17%, which isn't too bad considering the weather. Battery temperature at launch was 28 degrees F.