Quick Charge Ports - add later

[garygid]

Clearly $$ is an issue, and $50 per charge stations will be avoided.

However, the journeys that the QC facilitates ... are splendid.

 

[thankyouOB]

While most folks haven't had a chance to use them, I think it's all to easy to minimize their value and underestimate their likely availability. having used Quick Charging only a few times, I can say it's a crowd pleaser, probably the most wowing thing about the car. if the article that is going around is correct, Nissan is about to unveil some 800 chargers around the US over the next 2 of months. They wouldn't be saying this if the projects weren't near completion. the wisdom of the QC port is about to become abundantly clear, IMHO.

I heard a talk by a Mitsu guy the other day at an LA U. They are definitely predicating their marketing on QC availability, and can be expected to push QC stations out. After all, they have more limited range than our Leafs.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

There was one other poster who was talking about the 3.3kw charger and the compatiblitiy with QC. What effect will the newer 6kw charger have with QC that is coming out in 2013 models? 10 minute charge?

AFAIK, QC does not use the on-board charger. Thus, the 6.6KW charger will have no effect on QC.

 

[TEG]

AFAIK, QC does not use the on-board charger. Thus, the 6.6KW charger will have no effect on QC.

AFAIK, some part of the on-board charger "talks" to the CHAdeMO to help control QC.
But, it shouldn't matter in that case if you have 3.3kW or 6.6kW, the QC rate is still ~50kW DC.
Just pointing out the semantic argument that the on-board charger is still involved (at least peripherally) in QC charging too.

 

[Herm]

Last I heard, the onboard (inside the battery case?) Battery Management System (BMS) controls both the onboard 3.3kW charger and the external L3 charger.

 

[planet4ever]

AFAIK, some part of the on-board charger "talks" to the CHAdeMO to help control QC.

Last I heard, the onboard (inside the battery case?) Battery Management System (BMS) controls both the onboard 3.3kW charger and the external L3 charger.

From what I can tell, you are both right. Actually BMS appears to be a generic term used by battery engineers. Nissan refers to the part in the battery pack as an LBC: Li-ion battery controller, and it does make the decisions as to what can, and can't be done with "its" battery. But it talks to the VCM, which is a sort of master controller and router, and the VCM talks to the internal charger. For QC, it looks to me like the internal charger serves as an interpreter, mapping LBC demands and requests into CHAdeMO lingo.

The bottom line, though, as everyone has said, is that for QC the end conversation is between an external charger and a smart monitor/controller packaged with the battery, the energy is transmitted as higher voltage DC, and it matters not a whit how fast the internal charger can gulp AC electrons. So a 6.6kW, or even higher, charger would have no effect on how fast QC works.

Ray

 

[Vlad]

I don't have high hopes for QC for a good number of years. Even if QC is installed somewhere in the vicinity

- there is no guarantee it will be in the direction I'm going
- it will not be half way to the destination, so it will never extend the range full 80%
- coming to a QC and finding it in use sets you back another 15-20 minutes (assuming that car didn't have fully depleted battery). So here I am, waiting 40 minutes to drive another 40-60 miles.
- coming to a QC and finding it out-of-service kills the trip, and possibly strands you.
- Nissan advises against multiple consecutive quick charges
- taking a trip that requires multiple charges is a risk. Early adopters are ready to assume the consequences of something going wrong on a trip like this. We'll blame ourselves, not technology. Once a mainstream consumer gets stranded, he'll become a huge detractor, his "horror story" will spread and deter 10x more mainstream consumers.

It's not even a chicken and egg problem, it's more of a chicken or full basket of eggs. To be truly useful, QCs have to be abundant. But no one will make them abundant until there's proof that there's demand. So they'll install one here and one there, and it will not be indicative of the true possible demand.

To me, the best bang for the buck will be Level 2 chargers at places of work, or even outlets for Level 1 chargers. Cheap to install, plenty of time to charge, easy on the battery, predictable demand lets building owners not to overinvest, providing it free to employees is a great perk that doesn't break a bank. Let's face it, EVs are best as commuter cars - and chargers at work greatly amplify that strength.

 

[Volusiano]

While most folks haven't had a chance to use them, I think it's all to easy to minimize their value and underestimate their likely availability. having used Quick Charging only a few times, I can say it's a crowd pleaser, probably the most wowing thing about the car. if the article that is going around is correct, Nissan is about to unveil some 800 chargers around the US over the next 2 of months. They wouldn't be saying this if the projects weren't near completion. the wisdom of the QC port is about to become abundantly clear, IMHO.

Can you give us a link to this article that's going around about Nissan unveiling 800 chargers around the US over the next 2 months? I guess I missed it. It would indeed be great to hear about 800 more chargers in the US. How many of those are QC chargers?

 

[planet4ever]

Can you give us a link to this article that's going around about Nissan unveiling 800 chargers around the US over the next 2 months? I guess I missed it. It would indeed be great to hear about 800 more chargers in the US. How many of those are QC chargers?

Here's the article, for what it's worth, and it does say 800 QC in the next 2 months: Nissan Sets 1,500 - 2,000 DC Quick Charging Target For U.S. By 2014
Color me skeptical.

Ray

 

[garygid]

Perhaps by the end of 2014?

 

[planet4ever]

I don't have high hopes for QC for a good number of years. Even if QC is installed somewhere in the vicinity

• there is no guarantee it will be in the direction I'm going
• it will not be half way to the destination, so it will never extend the range full 80%
• coming to a QC and finding it in use sets you back another 15-20 minutes
• coming to a QC and finding it out-of-service kills the trip, and possibly strands you.
• Nissan advises against multiple consecutive quick charges
• taking a trip that requires multiple charges is a risk.

I essentially agree with your points and the conclusions you draw from them. I didn't even want a QC port, and ended up with one due to a foul up. But, curiously, it looks like I might start using my port before long.

It should be no surprise that my wife and I have a favorite trip: to see our granddaughter and great-grandkids. That's 90 miles each way, and we did do it once in the LEAF. I enjoyed the challenge, but my wife was less than thrilled, so now we take the Prius. Much to my amazement, it looks like there will soon be a QC station right on our route, and two thirds of the way from our home to theirs. That breaks the trip into three 60 mile legs, which should be quite doable. I'm really looking forward to it!

• Even a half hour delay wouldn't be a major problem. There is shopping in the area.
• Out of service wouldn't kill the trip, but it would reduce my wife's pleasure in it (and force an overnight stay if we hadn't planned that).
• Charging twice in the same day should cause no battery stress at all with a several-hour rest period between them.

One atypical case in no way invalidates your points, but it is a curious exception.

Ray

 

[garygid]

That is the kind of QC use that facilitates trips all over the LA and San Diego basins, and interconnects the two areas.

Leave Irvine (in Orange County), QC in Del Mar (just North of San Diego, go to Old Town, Balboa Park, and then dinner downtown before another QC in Del Mar to get (almost) back home. Another QC in San Clemente might facilitate getting home.

I think that a good QC network is what will change the roll of the "typical" EV from being a City Commuter (used to be Near Neighborhood) to a Regional Ranger.

Without more built-in Range, LA to SF, Vegas, or Phoenix would still be a bit time-consuming, but at least possible, just approximately 50% longer duration trips!

 

[fooljoe]

That is the kind of QC use that facilitates trips all over the LA and San Diego basins, and interconnects the two areas.

Leave Irvine (in Orange County), QC in Del Mar (just North of San Diego, go to Old Town, Balboa Park, and then dinner downtown before another QC in Del Mar to get (almost) back home. Another QC in San Clemente might facilitate getting home.

I think that a good QC network is what will change the roll of the "typical" EV from being a City Commuter (used to be Near Neighborhood) to a Regional Ranger.

Without more built-in Range, LA to SF, Vegas, or Phoenix would still be a bit time-consuming, but at least possible, just approximately 50% longer duration trips!

It's crazy that there's not already a QC at the San Onofre nuke.

 

[garygid]

You cannot stop a vehicle anywhere near there,
and the access is terrible.

As it is now, not a good place for a QC.

 

[Herm]

It sounds to me that an L3 QC that reported its own health and usage status over the internet could be handy.

 

[copdoc]

If it is (even theoretically) possible to add a QC port, will it be (theoretically) possible to change said port to the SAE standard if it wins out over CHAdeMO?

What parts need to be added, replaced, or modified?
1. Wiring harness, signal and HV
2. the Charger Controller, built into the Charger, I suspect
3. the Chademo Port (socket)
4. possibly the Inverter, containing relays to the HV bus?
5. others?

Gary, if I recall correctly, it's two harnesses, and the port itself. One of the harnesses seems to contain two additional relays that would need to be installed. The other parts seem to be identical, and Nissan has not made a specific charger, inverter or anything else for SV and SL trims. I think the claim that it cannot be done at the dealer relates to two things: it's labor-intensive and not very cost effective.

I looked for the old post, and I believe that it's these parts, but I could be missing something. Also note that the URLs stopped working, and won't bring you to the respective part listing, only the entry point:


1. EGI wiring harness w/quick charge: $618.89
2. Front compartment wiring harness w/quick charge: $1,212.00
3. Quick charge port: $714.25

Edit: actually, there is a QC-specific DC/DC board, which I didn't catch earlier:

4. JUNCTION BOARD DC/DC JUNCTION BOX; Leaf; w/Quick Charge: $663.84

 

[PatricioEV]

I can honestly say I've never once needed my quickcharge port and don't even believe there are any quickcharging stations in my city. Depends on your needs I guess... but mine is just collecting dust.

 

[lpickup]

I can honestly say I've never once needed my quickcharge port and don't even believe there are any quickcharging stations in my city. Depends on your needs I guess... but mine is just collecting dust.

For the first time since I've had the LEAF, I "waited" for a charge yesterday.

I took a 50-60 mile round trip (plus a few errands), much of it on highway and was down to 2 bars by the end. Got home at 3:00 and was planning on another trip later in the day. A friend told me he could meet me, but only at 5:00 and he had to leave by 5:30. I didn't feel comfortable I had enough range until 6:00, so I didn't go until then and didn't get to meet up with my friend.

A quick charge (obviously conveniently located) would've helped in this case and I possibly would have paid some money for it. Now, so would an L2 charge at either of my two destinations that day, but neither was located in an area where it would've made sense to put an L2. An L2 would've made sense during one of my stops (at the gym) but I had nearly 100% charge at that point anyway so it wouldn't have helped.

I was a bit disappointed that I had to actually wait for a charge, and a bit surprised that I had found an application for an L3 charge that was NOT related to taking a long distance trip.

 

[surfingslovak]

If it is (even theoretically) possible to add a QC port, will it be (theoretically) possible to change said port to the SAE standard if it wins out over CHAdeMO?

I believe that Nissan stated that they will offer this retrofit if the SAE standard gets adopted, and presumably it would be just a software update (if needed), a new port and changes to the wiring harness.

 

[garygid]

In snow country, that much-desired quick-charge would ...
be called a "coolie", as I vaguely seem to recall. :lol: